Different Gender for Janitors/Security/Mechanics

[Gysan]

Agreed. It is "enough" to just have two templates, one male as we have now and one female. And then switch around color palettes for those. And if it works, the "hat"-hair could be switched around too for some more variety.

But on other hand I also understand the uniformity, to make easier to spot them.

My own wishlist is however not skin/hair color but rather the clothes colors. Be able to recolor for example the princess dress to pink&white to fit better one more "modern" princess style. Or make an army of princesses of different colors! Would be fantastic!
(inb4 princess peach and daisy colors )

Likewise for Elly, Lockjaw and other similar dressed ones. As for Gulpee, Cosmic Cow, Tiki, Chief Beef .... I understand their "uniformity" to have for the brand tie in.

Good points Helena. Hopefully the workers are still recognisable with their clothing. I think the vendors are easy to spot in the park right now. So shouldn't be a too big of a problem with the rest of the work types. [happy]

I really wanna have Gulpee in other colours! In what other way be able to advert the different kinds of drink shops. [cool]

 

[KickAir8p]

Does having a female janitor really impact the game? No not at all

Of course not! It doesn't affect the game if all the staff and guests are peg-shaped with simple expression textures! Whoops, not quite true, that'd significantly improve performance. Should we go with that? Nope, because it affects the people playing the game -- if the staff and guests look more human, more like us, we relate to them better.

If I'm an abled/cis/straight/white/man, that's what "like me" looks like. If I'm most of those things, okay, maybe. But if I'm not? Then I'm not getting as much out of the game as someone who's closer to "the default", am I? And that's only one aspect of why "representation matters" -- we don't have to get too deep into how problematic it is that every black vandal in the game is chased down by a uniformed white guy if people don't keep posting how they're fine with that, there's no real reason to change it, it's not that important, it doesn't impact the game!

 

[LN]

Ah, 2017. The year where everybody must feel discriminated by something......

There is plenty of diversity in the game.

No need for changes. This is not where the focus of the devs should be.

 

[Helena]

I really wanna have Gulpee in other colours! In what other way be able to advert the different kinds of drink shops. [cool]

Fair enough! Ok let's have different Gulpees!

 

[ojonas]

Ah, 2017. The year where everybody must feel discriminated by something......

There is plenty of diversity in the game.

No need for changes. This is not where the focus of the devs should be.

This is a trend that has been going on for some time now. Doesn't seem to get better with time. Today you can't do or say anything without offending someone. We might as well just disconnect ourselves from the world and don't talk to anyone. That way you don't risk offending someone with your sheet presence.

This should be at the bottom of the priority lift for Frontier. I am sure they are following all applicable laws and guidelines for their work environment. Better to focus the energy and development time for something that actually will improve the game (fixing existing bugs and add new content).

(I predict this post will annoy at least someone here)

 

[redrum]

representation matters

Not when that representation is tokenistic.

At the micro-detail level of specific characters in a game, the lack of female janitor won't negatively effect anything in the real world unless you try to convince others it's a problem. And that's what you seem to be doing. It's counter productive to inflate these issues beyond the scope of their influence outside of the game.

A good way not to be racist or bigoted, is to not even notice the skin colour or gender on the screen. It doesn't matter unless you create an ideology around the subject of "it matters" with a barrage of links supporting your views.

When we watched Amelie, or Thelma & Louise, Black Swan, Frances Ha, Wonder Woman and countless others, we didn't applaud the lead gender, we applauded good movies. If you want to scrutinise everything through the lens of diversity, as an accountant conducts an audit, that's your choice. Just be aware of the pitfalls of artificially driving diversity.

 

[danijami23]

Short version: Representation matters, erasure is a form of bigotry. Don't like me bringing my "politics" into it? Then don't bring your default bigotry.

Warning: some links contain slurs and potential triggers.

Yes but this is nonsense, since there is clear representation of creeds and genders in this game. Diversity is indeed a hot button issue right now (and rightly so), but at the end of the day, Frontier have made every reasonable step to include diverse groups, encompassing gender, race and sexually.

There is an obvious reason all the janitors, security and mechanics are of the same build,next ajd colour, and that is because of design clarity. It's far easier to find a staff member wandering around the park at a glance if they all look the same, rather than trying to play some irritating game of Where's Wally every time you quickly want to pick up a janitor and put him near some puke. The vendors do have a diversity to them yes, but they have the nice big red shirts as identifiers.

I'm prepared to criticise FD for a lot of their missteps, but this is a non-issue and a very low priority as far as I'm concerned.

Oh and I'd appreciate you not assuming I'm a bigot because I don't agree with you. This isnt an affirmative action forum, and you have no idea who I am or what I'm like. Let's talk about the issues, not the personalities please. Tarring everyone with the bigot brush is just going to trivialise your position.

 

[breezerHOG1]

There is an obvious reason all the janitors, security and mechanics are of the same build,next ajd colour, and that is because of design clarity. It's far easier to find a staff member wandering around the park at a glance if they all look the same, rather than trying to play some irritating game of Where's Wally every time you quickly want to pick up a janitor and put him near some puke.

I dont think that adding a female janitor or mechanic would have any affect on how easy it is to find staff. Its a matter of how crowded your park is, if theres not a lot of guests or you have big plazas then it should be easy to spot staff, but if your park is overcrowded then you have to go into the menus and pick them that way. Its always been like that, even in RCT, but in RCT we still had the ability to change the color of staff uniforms! I wish we could still do that, even if it would make finding staff a bit more difficult, you can leave yours on default but I want to change mine

 

[danijami23]

I dont think that adding a female janitor or mechanic would have any affect on how easy it is to find staff. Its a matter of how crowded your park is, if theres not a lot of guests or you have big plazas then it should be easy to spot staff, but if your park is overcrowded then you have to go into the menus and pick them that way. Its always been like that, even in RCT, but in RCT we still had the ability to change the color of staff uniforms! I wish we could still do that, even if it would make finding staff a bit more difficult, you can leave yours on default but I want to change mine

I would of course welcome the option, but I think there are bigger fish to fry right now, and assuming default bigotry because I think that is unfair

 

[KickAir8p]

Yes but this is nonsense, since there is clear representation of creeds and genders in this game. Diversity is indeed a hot button issue right now (and rightly so), but at the end of the day, Frontier have made every reasonable step to include diverse groups, encompassing gender, race and sexually. There is an obvious reason all the janitors, security and mechanics are of the same build,next ajd colour, and that is because of design clarity . . .

The Staff tab lets you find all your janitors, mechanics, and security, "design clarity" isn't a good reason for every mechanic being male, for every uniformed security officer to be a white guy. Something like "it's the preliminary designs, of course we're going to diversify the entire staff just like we did the vendors, we haven't got to it yet" would be adequate if it didn't go on too long, and is (IMHO) probably Frontier's position. This isn't about accusing Frontier of misogyny or racism, it's about reminding them of a noticeable gap in their otherwise pretty good diverse representation.

Oh and I'd appreciate you not assuming I'm a bigot because I don't agree with you. This isnt an affirmative action forum, and you have no idea who I am or what I'm like. Let's talk about the issues, not the personalities please. Tarring everyone with the bigot brush is just going to trivialise your position.

And I'll thank you not to misrepresent what I said -- the link made it clear that was a generic you. Speaking against erasure and other forms of bigotry is not the same as name-calling, but hey, nice strawman.

I dont think that adding a female janitor or mechanic would have any affect on how easy it is to find staff. Its a matter of how crowded your park is, if theres not a lot of guests or you have big plazas then it should be easy to spot staff, but if your park is overcrowded then you have to go into the menus and pick them that way. Its always been like that, even in RCT, but in RCT we still had the ability to change the color of staff uniforms! I wish we could still do that, even if it would make finding staff a bit more difficult, you can leave yours on default but I want to change mine

Yeah, I miss that from RCT3P.

 

[danijami23]

The Staff tab lets you find all your janitors, mechanics, and security, "design clarity" isn't a good reason for every mechanic being male, for every uniformed security officer to be a white guy. Something like "it's the preliminary designs, of course we're going to diversify the entire staff just like we did the vendors, we haven't got to it yet" would be adequate if it didn't go on too long, and is (IMHO) probably Frontier's position. This isn't about accusing Frontier of misogyny or racism, it's about reminding them of a noticeable gap in their otherwise pretty good diverse representation.


And I'll thank you not to misrepresent what I said -- the link made it clear that was a generic you. Speaking against erasure and other forms of bigotry is not the same as name-calling, but hey, nice strawman.



Yeah, I miss that from RCT3P.

You directly quoted me and started talking about default bigotry. It isnt strawmanning for me to assume the inference of your statement. It's also not misrepresenting what you said, since what you said is "don't like my politics? Then don't bring your default bigotry". Whether it's aimed at me or aimed at frontier, no one is erasing or omitting diverse groups of people, so no one is bigoted, by default or otherwise. I would understand your POV if everyone in this game was unequivocally white and male, but that clearly isn't the case here.

 

[breezerHOG1]

Guys this topic isnt about bigotry

 

[LN]

Guys this topic isnt about bigotry

Indeed it's about gender diversity in the game. And there is more than enough. We have females and males in different roles.

Question.
Would it be offending to make all janitors female?

 

[danijami23]

Indeed it's about gender diversity in the game. And there is more than enough. We have females and males in different roles.

Question.
Would it be offending to make all janitors female?

It would be equally as "offensive" but about 100% less talked about would be my guess.

 

[LN]

It would be equally as "offensive" but about 100% less talked about would be my guess.

Yes, because It's only an offensive in the eyes of the viewer.

If I would I should feel equally offended because now it's only men who do the "dirty" job.

 

[KickAir8p]

Guys this topic isnt about bigotry

Indeed it's about gender diversity in the game. And there is more than enough. We have females and males in different roles.

Question.
Would it be offending to make all janitors female?

This topic certainly shouldn't be about bigotry! "Different Gender for Janitors/Security/Mechanics" should be an obvious "yes, of course"! Instead we're getting people posting blatantly bigoted anti-diversity opinions and getting upset when this isn't respected. Maybe my objections to that haven't been the most subtle or well-spoken (I'm on the autism spectrum), but the same diversity that Frontier's provided for the vendors should of course apply to the rest of the staff! White-male as default is racism and misogyny -- bad enough for a temporary placeholder, completely unacceptable if that's what these staff members will be shown as permanently.

 

[LN]

This topic certainly shouldn't be about bigotry! "Different Gender for Janitors/Security/Mechanics" should be an obvious "yes, of course"! Instead we're getting people posting blatantly bigoted anti-diversity opinions and getting upset when this isn't respected. Maybe my objections to that haven't been the most subtle or well-spoken (I'm on the autism spectrum), but the same diversity that Frontier's provided for the vendors should of course apply to the rest of the staff! White-male as default is racism and misogyny -- bad enough for a temporary placeholder, completely unacceptable if that's what these staff members will be shown as permanently.

Why do you make it a racism thing?

There are vendors with different skin tones.

This shouldn't even be a topic for a game......
Like a dev would say, let's make them all white on purpose, which isn't even the case.
You are overreacting and this topic has lost it's purpose.

 

[danijami23]

This topic certainly shouldn't be about bigotry! "Different Gender for Janitors/Security/Mechanics" should be an obvious "yes, of course"! Instead we're getting people posting blatantly bigoted anti-diversity opinions and getting upset when this isn't respected. Maybe my objections to that haven't been the most subtle or well-spoken (I'm on the autism spectrum), but the same diversity that Frontier's provided for the vendors should of course apply to the rest of the staff! White-male as default is racism and misogyny -- bad enough for a temporary placeholder, completely unacceptable if that's what these staff members will be shown as permanently.

So who is posting blatantly bigoted or anti diversity opinions? Pretty sure everyone posting on this topic has disagreed for visual clarity reasons or as a matter of development priority. But hey, nice straw man.

 

[Brett C]

Unfortunately, this thread has went off topic with a hint of trolling/flaming. As such, will be closing this discussion now.

As always, our forum rules can be found here: https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/5-Forum-Rules-and-Guidelines

Thank you for understanding.