Engineers Dirty vs Clean Thrusters... Anyone able to give some clarification/help

[NeilF]

So is anyone able to give some clarification of the pro's & con's of these? eg: A grade 5 clean vs a grade 5 dirty?

It seems the main difference is heat & power draw?

Clean:-
Optimal Multiplier: 10% to 18%
Thermal Load: -25% to -61%
Power Draw: 25% to 15%
Optimal Mass: -11% to -5%

Dirty:-
Optimal Multiplier: 25% to 29%
Thermal Load : 100% to 39%
Power Draw: 20% to 8%
Optimal Mass: -16% to -5%


Is the heat of dirty an issue for combat ships generating a lot of heat? For exploration ships?

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

cant rep u again but this is a good question imo and one i am struggling with. in my limited experience I find that for most case uses, dirty drive tuning is almost always the better choice.

i am sure there are edge cases...

As i said tho, my experience is limited being somewhat a noob to engineer magic so will follow with interest.

 

[goemon]

- exploration: my conda with 6A G5 clean drive tuning can highwake from a neutron star without overheating, my DBE with 4A dirty drive G5 can't anymore.

but, because also depends on heatcapacity of a ship and powerusage, you can also counter that effect by a low emission powerplant etc. see this thread: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/286628-Research-Detailed-Heat-Mechanics

- combat (pve). if you plan to run a DBS with double railguns, take clean drive tuning... if you run a lot of beams, have many mods upping powerusage etc. ... you maybe better run clean drive. but it isn't generally a problem, if you use common sense, or a mC/pulse loadout.

- combat (pve): depending on ships straight line base speed, you might run into your ship being to fast for dogfighting. i, for exampel, run my fdl with G5 clean drive tuning, because my turning circles are closer than with G5 dirty drive tuning. on the other hand i run my python with dirty drive tuning - it has a low base speed, and massively wins from tuning.

pve it makes no difference, whether you can boost 470 or 520 or 610 ;-)

i recommend trying the speed with a g3 cirty drive tuning, and if that is satisfying, go for clean drive G5 - otherwise take G5 dirty drive.

 

[NeilF]

cant rep u again but this is a good question imo and one i am struggling with. in my limited experience I find that for most case uses, dirty drive tuning is almost always the better choice.

i am sure there are edge cases...

As i said tho, my experience is limited being somewhat a noob to engineer magic so will follow with interest.

Well, I'm about to do my exploration ships, and you'd think "Clean" would be the way to go, but "Dirty" seems fine. Heat seems no problem, and power usage isn't either, especially as even a grade 1 Powerplant mod will give you 5-10% more power.

As for combat ships I guess clean might make more sense to ensure heat is not an issue, and to retain as much power for weapon usage?

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- exploration: my conda with 6A G5 clean drive tuning can highwake from a neutron star without overheating, my DBE with 4A dirty drive G5 can't anymore.

And you think your anaconda with a dirty drive would overheat instead?

 

[goemon]

And you think your anaconda with a dirty drive would overheat instead?

at least it overheated before having clean drive tuning (without any other changes), so: yes.

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

Generally if you are looking at tuning the thrusters at an engineers base then you have put on the best thrusters onto that ship so the thrusters won't be anywhere near their "optimised" mass (which is actually effectively a maximum mass). Consequently what you are looking at is multiplier; if you look at the two you see that a G5 dirty drive tune has a lot higher outputs than a G5 clean drive tune, so much so in fact that a GOOD G5 Clean Drive tuned thuster still has less multiplier increase than a BAD Dirty Drive.

TLR - if you can handle the heat dirty drive thrusters are better in every way, if you are struggling with thermal issues then clean drive will still improve agility and top speed but not as much as dirty drive tuning however clean drive tuning will also help reduce your thermal load issues.

 

[goemon]

As for combat ships I guess clean might make more sense to ... to retain as much power for weapon usage?

the joke is, clean drive tuned thrusters need more power than dirty drive tuned thrusters...

 

[Von Shadow]

Optimal mass is the general ability of thrusters to 'handle' the ships mass...
Thermal load = how much extra heat does the thrusters impart on the hull (thrusters being a very large heat generation item)

Optimal multiplier works in relation with optimal mass.... if your ships weight == optimal mass then the multiplier you get from the engineers is applied.... if your ship mass is heavier than optimal mass then you get proportionally less of that multiplier.... to the point where you could end up with zero (if you had smallest / weakest thrusters on a fully combat laiden massive ship).
If you get UNDER your optimal mass then you get increases over&above your multiplier (up to a point)

 

[jmp470]

Great question OP, I have dirty 3 on my Cutter and I'm thinking go clean 5 instead. This will keep my thermal signature down, which can get hot in combat. Also, the dirty 3drive makes the cutter a very nice flying machine IMO.

 

[NeilF]

the joke is, clean drive tuned thrusters need more power than dirty drive tuned thrusters...

I overlooked that... Not much in it... But yes! Clean uses slightly more...

 

[Karla]

- exploration: my conda with 6A G5 clean drive tuning can highwake from a neutron star without overheating, my DBE with 4A dirty drive G5 can't anymore.

but, because also depends on heatcapacity of a ship and powerusage, you can also counter that effect by a low emission powerplant etc. see this thread: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/286628-Research-Detailed-Heat-Mechanics

- combat (pve). if you plan to run a DBS with double railguns, take clean drive tuning... if you run a lot of beams, have many mods upping powerusage etc. ... you maybe better run clean drive. but it isn't generally a problem, if you use common sense, or a mC/pulse loadout.

- combat (pve): depending on ships straight line base speed, you might run into your ship being to fast for dogfighting. i, for exampel, run my fdl with G5 clean drive tuning, because my turning circles are closer than with G5 dirty drive tuning. on the other hand i run my python with dirty drive tuning - it has a low base speed, and massively wins from tuning.

pve it makes no difference, whether you can boost 470 or 520 or 610 ;-)

i recommend trying the speed with a g3 cirty drive tuning, and if that is satisfying, go for clean drive G5 - otherwise take G5 dirty drive.

This is very interesting. I finally got to grade 5 with Palin last night and am looking forward to putting g5 dirty drives on my two Vultures. I was going to do so with my FDL as well but you've made me consider putting on g5 clean drives instead (it currently has g3 dirty drives). I normally prefer agility than speed which is why I love the Vulture so much.

I am also going to buy a second Anaconda and equip it for exploration, so g5 clean drives might be the way to go.

After that I'll be equipping a DBS for silent running.

 

[Ca$hback]

G1 Clean drives are cheaper to reroll with than G1 Dirty drives. It's all about the optimal mass secondary effect. Can't afford to spend 10 legacy firmware. Rather spend 30 sulphur. I've gotten some beastly G1 mods just because of the secondary effects.

 

[StiTch]

Definitive answer:

For all combat ships, dirty drives. Simple as.

For explorers, clean drives.

If there was a more relatable correlation between the drives and power - so dirty drives have a higher power consumption - then there'd be a bigger debate. But the way to look at is the speed boost is paramount, and because you consume less power you can run a less intense overcharged PP mod or even run a low emissions mod, which means you're mitigating that heat issue anyway. When you're in the world of modding, power is quite a consideration.

 

[Nandayo]

The extra heat generation of Dirty drives can really be a problem in certain situations.

If you are doing combat you need to optimise you other modules or you're going have to heat-sink every time you press the trigger for longer than 5 seconds.

However the extra heat doesn't come without benefits. Yaw/turn/speed/boost everything is noticeably superior with DD.

In short: DD = Faster ship, more heat

A couple of screenshots to compare, Dirty drives 5 vs Clean drives 5 on a Clipper.

http://imgur.com/a/tjy1H DD5 vs CD5 + individual stats

 

[NeilF]

Definitive answer:

For all combat ships, dirty drives. Simple as.

For explorers, clean drives.

If there was a more relatable correlation between the drives and power - so dirty drives have a higher power consumption - then there'd be a bigger debate. But the way to look at is the speed boost is paramount, and because you consume less power you can run a less intense overcharged PP mod or even run a low emissions mod, which means you're mitigating that heat issue anyway. When you're in the world of modding, power is quite a consideration.

And why "explorers, clean drives" - You see the heat of dirty as enough of a concern, even though you have no weapons modules etc?

 

[JetsonRING]

Both choices modify different aspects of the thrusters: thrust output, heat generation, etc. and we choose based on what thruster attributes each CMDR feels best serves his/her needs.

It seems "Dirty" optimizes the thrusters for more thrust but with greater heat build-up, "Clean" sacrifices some speed/thrust for better heat-handling.

So far, I always choose "Dirty" since I usually run a A-rated thrusters and A-rated power plant. Some ships handle it better than others, though . . .

 

[StiTch]

And why "explorers, clean drives" - You see the heat of dirty as enough of a concern, even though you have no weapons modules etc?

Not sure what you mean bro.

Is there any reason you DON'T want a better heat profile as an explorer?

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Both choices modify different aspects of the thrusters: thrust output, heat generation, etc. and we choose based on what thruster attributes each CMDR feels best serves his/her needs.

It seems "Dirty" optimizes the thrusters for more thrust but with greater heat build-up, "Clean" sacrifices some speed/thrust for better heat-handling.

So far, I always choose "Dirty" since I usually run a A-rated thrusters and A-rated power plant. Some ships handle it better than others, though . . .

logically the above makes sense...... however the fact that clean drives use more power is the main part of the equation which makes me scratch my head.

"clean" to me hints at more efficient. (energy can not be created or destroyed) so if a thruster uses more energy one would think either more energy is converted directly into thrust OR it is converted into something else - most likely heat in this instance.

if clean drives generate less heat, and also slightly less thrust, then surely they should sup less power?

 

[Nandayo]

And why "explorers, clean drives" - You see the heat of dirty as enough of a concern, even though you have no weapons modules etc?

Dirty drives can push your heat at dangerous levels when flying on high G planets with FA: On. Just turning and boosting can take you into the 100s.

There is literally no reason to get dirty drives on an exploration ship, it can only be a problem with no essential benefit.

 

[goemon]

Is there any reason you DON'T want a better heat profile as an explorer?

depends on the ship... again. conda won't beat speed records, and speed won't save you, masslock is no issue... I'll always go clean drive on mine.

on my DBE i have G5 dirty drive - in the unlikely event of an interdiction on my way to a safe harbour, i can simply outboost any NPC (having a d-class powerdistributor ENG focussed). also the additional speed is handy for surveying planets ... you are noticable faster. on my explonda i use a fighter for that kind of job.