Im really hoping the devs could add more variarty in the game in the case of visitors. Like some are sitting in a wheelchair, so you cant just use all stairs but have to use the slopes or maybe elevators. it makes the game more realistic for me. also you could lose visitors because its not acceseble by disabled people. and Planetzoo devs could implement something similar to the exhibit tool that allows you to see which parts of the exhibit are accesible for animals but for the guests. so you can see if there are parts of your zoo that can not be reached using wheelchairs.
Disabled and eldery visitors
- Thread starter RayPool
- Start date
This would require a lot of work on behalf of the designers, as it would require new game mechanisms for not only guests but also building requirements, and then you want heatmaps on top of that? If at its core this game was an architecture simulator, sure handicap accessibility may make a challenging expansion pack; if this were a university level architecture course, it would be a requirement. In a game that is at its core a zoo simulator I don't see the need. I think this would most likely be a major source of frustration for most players, and at best add very little to the gameplay mechanics. There are so many other gameplay mechanics on the "wouldn't it be nice..." list that would add so much more to a zoo game. Also there is a very interesting developer's journal on the guest path finding method. It is specifically designed to lump guest animations to decrease CPU usage as much as possible. I am absolutely not willing to sacrifice game performance for something as trivial to the overall game experience as guest diversity.
If you really want immersion or inclusiveness I think something simpler, like seeing more African guests on the savanna map or more Asian guests on the Mongolia map, would be more immersive and a much easier ask.
If you really want immersion or inclusiveness I think something simpler, like seeing more African guests on the savanna map or more Asian guests on the Mongolia map, would be more immersive and a much easier ask.
Seriously, inclusion of people with disabilities is hardly a trivial matter. There is so much discrimination and lack of consideration for people with different abilities that I think it’s a serious omission of the game. In fact if we have protestors over the slightest lapse in supposed animal wellbeing, there should be in-game protestors if a zoo isn’t sufficiently accessible.
The game could easily include something as basic as ramps and slopes along steps to ensure zoos are wheelchair accessible. It doesn’t need to be overly complicated or have a dramatic impact on game performance.
It’s not just about building realistic and accessible zoos. Visibility and representation are so important, this isn’t a trivial matter at all.
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You know what's arguably pretty trivial? Procedurally modelled and physics-based poop, for each animal.
And STILL they did it. Nobody was crying out for it, it doesn't benefit anyone really, it's just neat that it's there.
You know what does benefit people? Choosing not to pretend that disabled people don't exist in what is being marketed as a realistic simulation. We belong in public spaces just as much as you, and we deserve more than this.
I'm on the fence with this idea.
On one hand yeah why not, I wouldn't be opposed to greater diversity.
On the other, I could see this possibly frustrating more casual players. Since the game at its core isn't really a "must be as realistically designed as possible" game (like say Cities games that focus on building stuff true to real life), players could get a bit frustrated having to constantly keep this in mind when creating their parks.
ESPECIALLY with the current pathing system. It can be very, very frustrating to navigate slopes at the best of times, especially if building to match terrain rather than putting in the path first and building around it.
If the paths were easier to put down/change between stairs and ramps then yeah no more issue there. But still, it's an animal management game more than anything else... I barely care about guests' needs enough to put down food and drinks
Let alone care if I'm building stairs or a ramp
On one hand yeah why not, I wouldn't be opposed to greater diversity.
On the other, I could see this possibly frustrating more casual players. Since the game at its core isn't really a "must be as realistically designed as possible" game (like say Cities games that focus on building stuff true to real life), players could get a bit frustrated having to constantly keep this in mind when creating their parks.
ESPECIALLY with the current pathing system. It can be very, very frustrating to navigate slopes at the best of times, especially if building to match terrain rather than putting in the path first and building around it.
If the paths were easier to put down/change between stairs and ramps then yeah no more issue there. But still, it's an animal management game more than anything else... I barely care about guests' needs enough to put down food and drinks
Let alone care if I'm building stairs or a ramp
while I think it is a good idea to have more diversity with the guests I would not want it to be part of the management. I am also one of those players who don´t care much of the guests, I want to play this game because of the animals and the building options. I have no intention to manage people, my concern in this game lies with the animals, it is all ready bothering me that i have to keep my staff happy ( I am the worst employer possible - I know)
But you can already make ramps? So you already have what you are asking for? There is absolutely nothing stopping you from putting a set of stairs and a ramp side by side. That is the beauty of Frontier's engine that allows freeform designing. You can create whatever "visual representation" you want.
Forcing all players to create redundant pathing and to design everything to comply with game-determined handicap standards, and creating a whole other handicap-path finding system to determine what is and isn't accessible, and then programming consequences to force players to comply with these standards is what I would call overly complicated for a game, especially a game that is at its core about the animals, not the guests. The guest programming and management seems pretty much an afterthought compared to the detailing that went into the animals, but this makes sense because this is a zoo sim, not a people sim.
Realism is great, but it has been pointed out over and over again throughout this forum there is a limit to what can be simulated. There is a limit to how much time the programmers have and how much people's computers can handle. As it is it already this game takes a highend computer to run. Truly out of curiosity can you name some examples of mainstream games that incorporate the handicap accessibility requirements you are asking for? Money talks, and if it sold, then you would see it. Is this a feature that even you, personally, would be willing to pay for? Frontier cannot be expected to pay people to work on something that will not sell. There have been many other far more popular expansions that have been requested that will be profitable to them.
I would like the disabled guests, I can understand why they are more relevant to zoos than in PlanCo. It would just be more inclusive,
While I agree with this in general, I think this game has so much more to give in the animals and habitat section, and that the extra focus on the guests might take away from the animals. I mean as much as I care as a player the guests are money-making cartoon blobs for me.
However if frontiers ever decide to make a big upgrade to the management side of things (which some people have noted can be more complicated) this could, and my opinion should, be a great addition to the game.
In the meantime what I did during the beta as a workaround is to only use ramps and imagine that it makes my preciousmoney blobs guests happy 
.
However if frontiers ever decide to make a big upgrade to the management side of things (which some people have noted can be more complicated) this could, and my opinion should, be a great addition to the game.
In the meantime what I did during the beta as a workaround is to only use ramps and imagine that it makes my precious
.I am heavily dependent on a wheelchair AND few years before worked at a zoo my $0.02 worth...
Yes should feature disabled visitors, many elderly people can't walk far. People with children in pushchairs...
A small but effective change to improve diversity in PZ... What about adding to the path types a lift that joins two or more paths of differing heights...? Lift shafts can be blended into overall theme, set back into rock faces etc.
Little details like toilet blocks being designed so they have male, female and disabled toilets. Include baby changing room too?
Frontier could really do something outstanding and amazing by including disabled diversity within Planet Zoo. Even if it was an add on that people downloaded so those who wanted to could include it. IF anyone from Frontier wants to have a meaningful discussion on how they can ttuly make Planet Zoo include disabled visitors I am happy to volunteer my time for free either online, by phone or email. Drop me a private message.
As I am or someone else is a wheelchair should I be excluded from being educated about animals, environment etc?
Slopes are okay but can't be too steep either going up or going down... Especially if self propelling If you have no experience of being in a wheelchair you will be surprised at how shallow a slope needs to be.
Doorways that aren't wide enough are another huge challenge. Whole parts of life that aren't available because a doorway isn't an inch wider.
I have voluteered time and effort (and will continue) with local council trying to make my local town centre more disabled friendly. I let a member of local council try out a reasonably shallow slope in my wheelchair last week; she was shocked at the challenge).
Here in the UK (and other countries) there is legislation that requires companies make reasonable adjustments to take into account disabilities. So it is realistic
Yes should feature disabled visitors, many elderly people can't walk far. People with children in pushchairs...
A small but effective change to improve diversity in PZ... What about adding to the path types a lift that joins two or more paths of differing heights...? Lift shafts can be blended into overall theme, set back into rock faces etc.
Little details like toilet blocks being designed so they have male, female and disabled toilets. Include baby changing room too?
Frontier could really do something outstanding and amazing by including disabled diversity within Planet Zoo. Even if it was an add on that people downloaded so those who wanted to could include it. IF anyone from Frontier wants to have a meaningful discussion on how they can ttuly make Planet Zoo include disabled visitors I am happy to volunteer my time for free either online, by phone or email. Drop me a private message.
As I am or someone else is a wheelchair should I be excluded from being educated about animals, environment etc?
Slopes are okay but can't be too steep either going up or going down... Especially if self propelling If you have no experience of being in a wheelchair you will be surprised at how shallow a slope needs to be.
Doorways that aren't wide enough are another huge challenge. Whole parts of life that aren't available because a doorway isn't an inch wider.
I have voluteered time and effort (and will continue) with local council trying to make my local town centre more disabled friendly. I let a member of local council try out a reasonably shallow slope in my wheelchair last week; she was shocked at the challenge).
Here in the UK (and other countries) there is legislation that requires companies make reasonable adjustments to take into account disabilities. So it is realistic
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My local zoo uses escalators/moving belts to allow everyone easier access to higher elevations (they only go up). They are not everywhere, but offer a great alternative to get around.
I don’t think it would be too difficult to implement this as an addiitional path type. Just a specific rail and restricted to straight pieces (you could join several pieces in a row with a little platform in between for directional changes). Visitors step on and off and would be transported without walking animations.
I don’t think it would be too difficult to implement this as an addiitional path type. Just a specific rail and restricted to straight pieces (you could join several pieces in a row with a little platform in between for directional changes). Visitors step on and off and would be transported without walking animations.
Just thought some people may be interested in what I found out so I thought I would share
I had occupational health advisor visit my flat as part of the process for a below knee amputation. Carly said they advise a slope of 12 inches (34cm) for every 1 inch (2.5cm of height! I reckon with some effort could do 6/1 but more than that it's a push
I had occupational health advisor visit my flat as part of the process for a below knee amputation. Carly said they advise a slope of 12 inches (34cm) for every 1 inch (2.5cm of height! I reckon with some effort could do 6/1 but more than that it's a push
Jonti made an awesome wheelchair elevator track thing in this video..
Source: https://youtu.be/Zil_tzM5Vec
Accessibility in zoos is a big deal these days and personally I am always happy to see disabled charactere in game since I myself am disabled and there isn't a ton of disability representation in games. If we looked at disabled people as a regular part of society they would just be included in the game development process to start with and not an add on. Unfortunately though that's not the case.
Something easy Frontier could do is make guests with canes (both balance and low vision types) and crutches. These guests could go on all of the regular paths and nothing mechanically would need to be changed with the game. I wouldn't be bothered if a wheelchair using guest could handle much steeper slopes than in real life (and in real life a lot of people in wheelchairs have to deal with much steeper slopes than reccomended).
Something easy Frontier could do is make guests with canes (both balance and low vision types) and crutches. These guests could go on all of the regular paths and nothing mechanically would need to be changed with the game. I wouldn't be bothered if a wheelchair using guest could handle much steeper slopes than in real life (and in real life a lot of people in wheelchairs have to deal with much steeper slopes than reccomended).
Not sure if you've ever been to or seen the San Diego Zoo (USA). Me and my mom did their giant hills when I was in a wheelchair. It was...an experience lol. Now that is not wheelchair accessible but we still took a wheelchair there. And a lot of people these days have push assist devices for wheelchairs that make hills and slopes much easier to deal with. If they put wheelchairs in the game I'd be pretty freakin jazzed and not overly concerned with the smaller details. I'd prefer they put wheelchair users in the game at all vs deciding not to because it would be complex.