Disappointed with lack of coat variation in wolves

[Grayyy]

I just want to put up some sources that show the emphasis on individualism, realism, uniqueness and coat differentiation that was highly advertised by Frontier themselves, whether directly written into their promotional material or quoted in reviews.

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“[Each animal is an] individual with a distinctive look and personality of their own...”
The vast majority of animals are visual clones - the only visually unique animals are leucistic. Behaviour is exactly the same for each animal, influenced only by need bar decay.

“...the most authentic, most realistic animals in any game...”
A complete lack of colour variance is not realistic or authentic. This claim also justifies comparisons to ZT2, Jurassic World Evolution and, in fact, “any other game”. All of which have colour variants, even in extinct species.

“The individuality of animals seems to be a major theme...”
I argue that there is no evidence of this.

“...each individual animal stands out, with genomes affecting major things like behaviour to small details such as coat patterns...”
Again, there is no difference in behaviour between individuals. No difference in coat patterns besides leucistic animals, zebras and possibly male vs female (unrealistic as none of these species exhibit sexual dimorphism of coat colouration). This is not something that affects “every individual”.

“No two animals in Planet Zoo look the same, even within a species. Each individual has subtle differences in their appearance and personality that have been directly inherited from their parents. The way their stripes pattern, what shade of brown their fur is, if they have a playful nature...”
Again, every species besides zebras are identical clones, unless leucistic. Shades of fur colour differ only in male vs female, although again even this is not true for the vast majority of species. No behavioural differences are observed.

“Genomes determine an animal’s appearance (such as different stripe patterns on zebras)...”
Zebras are the only species with individual pattern differences. This should have been clearly stated, as this sort of information deliberately misleads the audience into believing that such details apply to all animals with patterned coats.

“Zoom the camera once more and you’ll see this writ large in distinctive markings...”
Again, this only applies to zebras.

I personally feel that these quotes are enormously and deliberately misleading, with some being blatantly false.

Hopefully coat variation is bugged and will be fixed. Otherwise, I hope that Frontier are currently working on coat variations to patch in (it would be amazing if some were added in this week’s patch). I hope this post explains why a lot of people expected coat variations and feel that they are a must in this game, and should be patched in as soon as possible - they are a valued and highly demanded element of this game.

So personalities were in fact advertised. I'd love to see traits like in the Sims-games
Having traits for animals would make them truly stand out from each other, combined with more coat variations.
Traits like, Lazy, Bold, Timid, Playful etc, which would effect the way animals behave.

 

[Swjosdotschka]

Not keen on the marketing communication (like with the silence on beta delay ), as I prefer an upfront communication (edit to explain: when players interpretation of something and devs meaning divert due to discussions over visual thinks in videos like with "beta in summer" at the gamers convention) but once again very happy with how Frontier is reacting to gamers feedback and wishes. Of course I can't wait to have my dark lion in the video but I am very willing to wait to have a good outcome and everything fleshed out as much as possible. As long as Frontier will support Planet Zoo like they do now, I will support Frontier.
(As if I could have a happy life without this game by now anyway. )

Now where is the fast forward button to new stuff and more time to play?

 

[TobiDaDog]

Just for expectations' sake: new coat and pattern variations are not be in this week's update; we are looking into future possibilities to add more variations based on the discussion in this thread, but this will need some dev time.

Quick sidenote: pattern variations (Zebras, Giraffes, etc.) are in-game, they are based on genetics. Just like in real life, a juvenile will take patterns from its parents; if you've bred large herds, this could mean some repetitive patterns. We do want to look into adding more pattern variation; this would be a matter of our code team making a few changes so that there will be more individual patterns visible. We understand from the feedback here that this will make the game even more enjoyable, so that's something we're happy to look into.

Coat variations will also be addressed; this is a bigger change (as there's quite a few animals) so this will take time, but we hope that will make the animals feel more individualistic and realistic!

We will likely make these changes in a batch (so multiple animals at once), which might delay the date we're able to implement that into the game based on workload and team availability. Please let this be the clear answer that we have taken this feedback to heart!

Thank you so much Bo for answering our concerns!! I look forward to seeing these batches released over time. I guess now is the time to shuffle over to the wishlist corner of the forum to post some favorite coat variations!

 

[Moonfox]

Thank you so, so much for this detailed and well outlined response! Thank you Bo, for seeking answers for us and communicating on behalf of the rest of the team involved, and thank you to the whole team that have decided to look into additional coat variations and to provide them to us.

Statements like: “We do want to look into adding more pattern variation; this would be a matter of our code team making a few changes so that there will be more individual patterns visible” give us confirmation of dev intentions, as well as an explanation of how this process works, and that sort of communication is so helpful to let us understand how and why these processes take time, but that they are happening and our patience will be worth it.

Again (in response to coat variation) “We will likely make these changes in a batch (so multiple animals at once), which might delay the date we're able to implement that into the game based on workload and team availability” - fantastic response! We know what the devs want to do, that this feature that we would be delighted to have in game will be implemented, how you plan to do it, and why it might take a bit of time.

I absolutely understand that this will take time and a lot of hard work, but it’s everything I could have hoped for to know that more coat variations will be implemented, even if that takes a little while. Thank you for dedicating yourselves to providing these changes!

So excited to see these additions to the game, and I really appreciate that the team listens to what we want and works to meet our expectations. Thank you again!

 

[paul78]

Very good news! I know frontier has gotten a lot of heat over this issue lately. This just goes to show frontier is a stand up company who cares about their customer base. lMO frontier has done a great job at listening to community and continuously trying to improve the game.

 

[NZFanatic]

Very good news! I know frontier has gotten a lot of heat over this issue lately. This just goes to show frontier is a stand up company who cares about their customer base. lMO frontier has done a great job at listening to community and continuously trying to improve the game.

I wouldn't get too carried away. The core tenet of a business is to make money fast, and shortcuts will be taken to ensure maximum profit in a short amount of time. Whether the company makes games, shoes, beer, or machines, business nowadays is all about short-term gain first and long-term gain second. The whole idea is that if the business goes bust or a product goes bust, the company as a whole won't lose out too much straight away - Frontier made a ton of money with Planet Coaster and JWE, and are rushing stuff out for Planet Zoo. I don't blame Bo or the dev team for this of course, that would be stupid, but I suspect there are shareholders and investors to answer to.

I certainly think Frontier is "one of the good ones", but I'm not willing to put my faith in them anymore than I'm willing to put faith in my landlord's claim that he has our best interests at heart.

That said, I've already made it clear that I'm very happy and appreciate of Bo's response, and to add to that I think she is doing a great job in keeping communication open between us, the community, and the people in charge. It must be stressful, especially seeing all the negativity. I won't, however, begrudge people their negativity, as at the end of the day community dissatisfaction is what forces companies to implement changes.

 

[NL_Mutso]

Like everybody I'm glad they add this, i just hope people don't expect too much of this feature.

Don't be surprised if your preferred variation will not be added and the variations are more subtle.
For example: the above comment about "the dark lion in the video" - the dark (normal) one on the left is already ingame (looks the same as in my game) - the one right is a brighter version. Which just could be a brightness test because it applies to the entire body/mane in the same intensity. At least that's how i look at it !
It looks like there's already an expectation for the lion.

Just a precaution, for when they add it, to avoid topics like "Why isn't this variation added?"

 

[JamieCA]

Just for expectations' sake: new coat and pattern variations are not be in this week's update; we are looking into future possibilities to add more variations based on the discussion in this thread, but this will need some dev time.

Quick sidenote: pattern variations (Zebras, Giraffes, etc.) are in-game, they are based on genetics. Just like in real life, a juvenile will take patterns from its parents; if you've bred large herds, this could mean some repetitive patterns. We do want to look into adding more pattern variation; this would be a matter of our code team making a few changes so that there will be more individual patterns visible. We understand from the feedback here that this will make the game even more enjoyable, so that's something we're happy to look into.

Coat variations will also be addressed; this is a bigger change (as there's quite a few animals) so this will take time, but we hope that will make the animals feel more individualistic and realistic!

We will likely make these changes in a batch (so multiple animals at once), which might delay the date we're able to implement that into the game based on workload and team availability. Please let this be the clear answer that we have taken this feedback to heart!

Like everybody I'm glad they add this, i just hope people don't expect too much of this feature.

Don't be surprised if your preferred variation will not be added and the variations are more subtle.
For example: the above comment about "the dark lion in the video" - the dark (normal) one on the left is already ingame (looks the same as in my game) - the one right is a brighter version. Which just could be a brightness test because it applies to the entire body/mane in the same intensity. At least that's how i look at it !
It looks like there's already an expectation for the lion.

Just a precaution, for when they add it, to avoid topics like "Why isn't this variation added?"

I'm sure many people are going to want specific variations. If we just get some variety I'll be happy!

 

[nightcat]

Very exciting news! Glad you will look into it!

 

[Jessiy]

I have stopped playing the game for this reason alone to be honest.
The main selling point for me was the promise of unique genetics and coat variation, I spent many hours buying and watching animals, trying to see uniqueness, but failing.

The only note able ones are:
Wild dogs
Cheetah
Snow leopard (though, face patterns never change just the body)
Tigers
Zebra

However, they are all too similar.
I was expecting not just spots on cheetah to be different, but slight shade variation of the yellow fur.

I was expecting things like different tusk lengths and color in elephants.

I was expecting grey fur and lighter coloration in old animals....

Honestly the variation in this game feels worst than zoo tycoon and wildlife part 1-2 games...
Which is very disappointing since variations where promised...

Bongos have stripes, but no stripes are different.
Wolves, I made a whole post about this before when it was in beta.
What bugs me more about wolves, is they now added another species of wolf, that also is just a copy/paste of its self, all are white, no difference between them.

 

[horse14t]

I don't know if this was brought up or not in this thread yet but along with more coat variations should be more coat mutations like Melanism, piebald and Erythrism.
Give me red lions and black zebras. Make achievements for them even to go with the Ghost one.
Like, I'm surprised they included the Golden Cheetah (which isn't albino by the way) but not the more well known King Cheetah. Even ZT2 had 2 king cheetah variants.
Heck ZT2 had more variants in general... Even the 2013/17 Xbox ZT, made by Frontier had more variants...

 

[NZFanatic]

I don't know if this was brought up or not in this thread yet but along with more coat variations should be more coat mutations like Melanism, piebald and Erythrism.
Give me red lions and black zebras. Make achievements for them even to go with the Ghost one.
Like, I'm surprised they included the Golden Cheetah (which isn't albino by the way) but not the more well known King Cheetah. Even ZT2 had 2 king cheetah variants.
Heck ZT2 had more variants in general... Even the 2013/17 Xbox ZT, made by Frontier had more variants...

Neither Zoo Tycoon 2 or Zoo Tycoon 2013 had melanistic jaguars, though, which always really annoyed me. Fan-made stuff is fine, but it's not "official" (and I don't count the ZT2 black leopard, as that's not a real animal on its own.

 

[Jeminyne]

Thank you very much Bo! I truly believe colour variation is MUCH more important in players' eyes, than pattern variation. Much easier to see and more fun to look at! Fingers crossed.

 

[Masteradstriker]

I don't know if this was brought up or not in this thread yet but along with more coat variations should be more coat mutations like Melanism, piebald and Erythrism.
Give me red lions and black zebras. Make achievements for them even to go with the Ghost one.
Like, I'm surprised they included the Golden Cheetah (which isn't albino by the way) but not the more well known King Cheetah. Even ZT2 had 2 king cheetah variants.
Heck ZT2 had more variants in general... Even the 2013/17 Xbox ZT, made by Frontier had more variants...

Um... Is there really such thing as a red lion? First images on google shows me drawings and sketches. Are you confusing with the red-maned lions from the Lion King? Or are you making stuff up?

 

[Masteradstriker]

Anyways, I'm looking forward to what animals will get the cosmetic updates first.

 

[horse14t]

Um... Is there really such thing as a red lion? First images on google shows me drawings and sketches. Are you confusing with the red-maned lions from the Lion King? Or are you making stuff up?

No I'm not talking about TLK.. I hate it when people take that movie to seriously.
I'm talking about Erythrism which is like Melanism or Leucism but with red pigment instead.

Erythristic or Golden lion:

ZT2 did have Melanistic animals, like the black saber-tooth, which also had a Leucistic variant too.
My guess for the black jaguar was because they already had the black leopard (plus it had a variant already), which is Melanistic. Might've looked to similar at the time or something. It was just carried over from the first game.

Besides, there's also a Erythristic or "Strawberry" leopard:

You also got the King Leopard:

Other Erythristic animals:

 

[Grayyy]

Cool

 

[NZFanatic]

The only worry I have with too many colour mutations is making them appear too commonly. That said I do wish there was a way to "force" the game to select for them, especially in Sandbox. In Zoo Tycoon 2 if you wanted a white tiger or a king cheetah badly enough you could continuously place them until one randomly appeared. Sometimes you reached number 150, sometimes it happened on your first or second try, but the point is you could always get one if you were patient enough. In PZ's Sandbox it's extremely difficult to find one in the market (it's only happened once for me, and it was a boa constrictor, so not the most exciting thing), and breeding them is a stab in the dark if the animal doesn't have the necessary genes.

I think if they made it so the 'refresh' button in the sandbox market continuously randomised the list even without first purchasing an animal then people would be happier, as not only would this make it easier to find better genetics in animals, it would increase the chances of finding the colour mutations. I don't agree on an ethical level with deliberately breeding these mutations in zoos (except the black jaguars/leopards, as the variant appears frequently in nature because it isn't a hindrance to the animal's way of life), but having the odd one can bring a bit of character to your zoo (like the white tigers at Singapore Zoo used to - not sure if they're still there but they were phenomenal, and the educators were specific about how they weren't a separate species and about the challenges the mutations faced in the wild and so on).

 

[horse14t]

I think if they made it so the 'refresh' button in the sandbox market continuously randomised the list even without first purchasing an animal then people would be happier, as not only would this make it easier to find better genetics in animals, it would increase the chances of finding the colour mutations. I don't agree on an ethical level with deliberately breeding these mutations in zoos (except the black jaguars/leopards, as the variant appears frequently in nature because it isn't a hindrance to the animal's way of life), but having the odd one can bring a bit of character to your zoo (like the white tigers at Singapore Zoo used to - not sure if they're still there but they were phenomenal, and the educators were specific about how they weren't a separate species and about the challenges the mutations faced in the wild and so on).

I hate that I have to wait for the timer in Sandbox so much! I just want animals with decent genetics

 

[NZFanatic]

I hate that I have to wait for the timer in Sandbox so much! I just want animals with decent genetics

You don't have to wait - you can buy the animals and then click refresh for another four choices. The biggest annoyance is that if an animal is injured or sick you can't get rid of it right away, you have to first quarantine it (which is a massive waste of time if all you're trying to do is cycle the list to find the right animal).