Discuss the AI here!

[Aelemar]

Personally, I am very happy with the AI changes.

Before, you could be Elite ranked, have killed millions of NPCs, and your first PVP encounter would most likely result in a sure death for you. The issue, NPCs were such pushovers you really didn't learn much from them.

Now, I get the feeling that if you can get really good at killing the now TRULY Elite NPCs, your first PVP encounter might go a lot differently.

A lot of us will have to retrain and relearn... Scratch that. We will have to scrap everything we thought we knew about combat and start learning again.

With the NPCs as our mentors. (Don't kill me too hard, Sensei!"

 

[Ziljan]

yea if a novice is just as insane as a elite then clearly they have a scaling problem.

Don't be so sure it's the Novice. The flying of lower rank NPCs is worse than 2.0. The only difference is that they actually shoot you now, rather than just buzzing around you in harmless circles.

The way to defeat them is by flying in reverse. You can hit FA off to accelerate backwards even faster.

 

[Karla]

File a bug report on that one, Limpets were excluded from the pirate "want" list or supposed to be since Beta 3 or 4.

Ah yes, the only time I ever brought something into a Haz Res was a limpet. I didn't know I still had them. I had tried mining and soon gave up. Next time I went to a Haz Res pirates were scanning me and attacking me and I didn't know why.

I only started playing in November so this must have been 2.0

 

[Dave1029]

You're making excuses instead of admitting you are not as good as you perhaps thought you were; that's what your posts boil down to.

This again. "Git Gud." The problem really boils down the the imbalance of ship sizes. Before 2.1, NPC's didn't hit very hard so the problem was less apparent. The reason I'm having issues, is not because I'm not good. It's because I'm flying a big ship that disproportionally has god awful shields now. Before it was manageable. Now shields go down in 5 seconds. Whether I'm in a cobra or Conda. Shield strength needs a major rebalancing effort.

 

[MVP_Bluntman]

Just think of all the newly acquired PVP skill from fighting the AI. I got whooped the first couple times, but if you use security/wings properly, you still whoop their asses all the same, hell you can even get underneath an anaconda or behind it and still kill it.

 

[Soliluna]

You were running into disabling mines. Next time look on the radar HUD for white squares being pooped out of the enemy ship. Try not to fly into them. Pretty easy to avoid mines, once you know what they are.

This is the problem with the game being too easy and some weapons being so bad before, nobody knows what they even are

That is a hilarious story though.

 

[MVP_Bluntman]

This again. "Git Gud." The problem really boils down the the imbalance of ship sizes. Before 2.1, NPC's didn't hit very hard so the problem was less apparent. The reason I'm having issues, is not because I'm not good. It's because I'm flying a big ship that disproportionally has god awful shields now. Before it was manageable. Now shields go down in 5 seconds. Whether I'm in a cobra or Conda. Shield strength needs a major rebalancing effort.

Well generally the combat aspect is supposed to be challenging since it relies on the most player input. If the NPC's were any worse, they just wouldn't be an acceptable challenge when compared to other players. I also think that come two weeks to a month down the line, people will be saying how the new AI isn't much of a challenge anymore, because those combat pilots, adjusted their loadouts, modified their equipment, and changed their tactics.

In general, most of the AI complaints are knee jerk reactions because they simply aren't used to these AI, their used to 1.4-2.0 AI which were buggy and brain dead. To put it in layman's terms, people were expecting an easier fight.

 

[Hexcaliber]

This again. "Git Gud." The problem really boils down the the imbalance of ship sizes. Before 2.1, NPC's didn't hit very hard so the problem was less apparent. The reason I'm having issues, is not because I'm not good. It's because I'm flying a big ship that disproportionally has god awful shields now. Before it was manageable. Now shields go down in 5 seconds. Whether I'm in a cobra or Conda. Shield strength needs a major rebalancing effort.

Really, I am flying a conda and its not even an A fit.

 

[Soliluna]

This again. "Git Gud." The problem really boils down the the imbalance of ship sizes. Before 2.1, NPC's didn't hit very hard so the problem was less apparent. The reason I'm having issues, is not because I'm not good. It's because I'm flying a big ship that disproportionally has god awful shields now. Before it was manageable. Now shields go down in 5 seconds. Whether I'm in a cobra or Conda. Shield strength needs a major rebalancing effort.

We need someone to link the video of someone in a cutter shooting at a station, flying in and flying out, surviving.

Shields do not need rebalancing, certainly not towards being stronger

 

[Aelemar]

You can't get better against a machine that is stacked against you. You will always get worked. Always. You may welcome the challenge now, but I've already been convinced that this isn't the game for me. So stroke your e-Peen all you want.

There is no "stacking". I fly an FDL, and yesterday I killed a Dangerous Python (took some work), and was given a hell of a time by a Vulture and Cobra MKIII wing (they were using their superior maneuverability brilliantly).

Before, I could put a rubber band on my HOTAS trigger button, go to the bathroom, and have a couple million credits by the time I got back. NPCs seemed to just like being in my crosshairs. It was booooooorrrring.

Now, take your eyes off the screen for a couple seconds and you might just regret it.

The problem Dave, is not that the AI is stacked against you. In fact, the previous, dumb AI was stacked against you. Why?

Think about it this way: If you go to the gym and run on the threadmill for 30 minutes, you will improve your fitness by a certain amount. However, if you keep doing the exact same thing over and over, you will eventually reach a plateau in which there won't be any improvement. The previous dumb AI did this to our skills. We got to the level of skill where we could kill anything and everything, and since the AI was to , we couldn't improve past that.

Think of this new AI as increasing your treadmill time to an hour instead of 30 minutes. This new AI will foster a whole new level of skill from us players.

It was ABOUT time.

 

[MVP_Bluntman]

We need someone to link the video of someone in a cutter shooting at a station, flying in and flying out, surviving.

Shields do not need rebalancing, certainly not towards being stronger

when you can get a cutter with 7k, a vette with 5k shields, an fdl with 3k, that goes out the door.

 

[davecrowley]

I personally don't have an issue with the AI getting better at fighting. My issue with NPC's as it currently stands is that MOST of the ones I have encountered thus far have special weapons upgrades equipped.

Considering how difficult a grind it is for us to obtain the engineer materials to get upgrades, the amount of NPC's that have the upgraded ships, is too much !!

For example, my FDL with max class A shields and 5 boosters should not have it's shields completely stripped by 2 sidewinders that are Competent / Master rated in less than 10 seconds, as was the case in a USS last night. I won the encounter, but had to spend approx 40k to repair my ship. Their collective bounties were in the region of about 15k !

Too many upgraded ships are about ATM !

 

[frostypaw]

The big difference to me is there's no longer any fighting without pip management past the little'uns. I had gotten pretty casual about it as you could always turn the fight if it started going wrong but by starting paying attention - combat wasn't that hectic at all unless you were thoroughly outmatched on paper to start with.

Now that's fairly fatal. The first few encounters all went south fast as I was still being casual but after that it was weapons ready and pips set, fingers on the triggers right away and it went much better. Wings were a whole different challenge as they genuinely seemed to team up and work together in a way I don't remember from before - new tactics of sacrificing a bit of shields while chasing off one before addressing the others became par for the course, and keeping an eye on the radar as they skittle around trying to stop you getting behind them. It's definitely harder but definitely not too hard at the same time - just a vast contrast from turn+zap at will.

 

[verminstar]

That's not how you beat a wing while solo.

First you have to wait for them engage a tough target. Then you pounce, picking off the weakest members first.

You can do this in an Eagle.

But you are clearly not a beginner...you don't have the same perspective as a new player. You can do things with starter ships that those of us who play every day with them could never do.

Two days ago, I was doing that in a sidewinder, albeit with some care...today, simply jumping to an easy res resulted in a very swift death in a mk3 something...the 350k ship.

Of course the older players are happy...but newer players like me are suffering...and when we say we are suffering, you guys jump down our throats telling us we have to "adapt"...starting to feel as though you guys have forgotten what it's like at the bottom...feels as though yer talking down at us and that ain't so cool at all.

For the elitist snobs, this update is the best thing since sliced bread...for the rest of us, it's a nail being hammered into a coffin...I'm actually close to bankrupt now even though my insurance is less than 20k...does that sound like I'm "adapting" to you?

 

[Bomba Luigi]

This again. "Git Gud." The problem really boils down the the imbalance of ship sizes. Before 2.1, NPC's didn't hit very hard so the problem was less apparent. The reason I'm having issues, is not because I'm not good. It's because I'm flying a big ship that disproportionally has god awful shields now. Before it was manageable. Now shields go down in 5 seconds. Whether I'm in a cobra or Conda. Shield strength needs a major rebalancing effort.

Put better shields in and if even the best shields don't help add SCB, just try around till you have a build that works for you. I found that class 6 shields worked very well for me on the Conda.

And in gernal nobody needs to "git gud", sticking to high sec and you always get help from the Cops very fast. Wann go into a res go to high res and stick to the cops. Those cops are improved NPCs too and they are very good at killing other npcs.

 

[Dave1029]

Maybe in my limited experience I ran into a storm of an enemy instead of the "norm." I just can't imagine that there's even one person defending FD if that NPC I encountered is representitive of them all. I didn't even have a chance to react. So my piloting skills weren't even relevant in that encounter.

 

[Trueno33]

I still have to try some more, but last night I felt very proud of defeating an elite asp (scout) and getting away with 46% of my hull left (me in a A-rated FdL)

 

[Sans Daring]

I also think that come two weeks to a month down the line, people will be saying how the new AI isn't much of a challenge anymore, because those combat pilots, adjusted their loadouts, modified their equipment, and changed their tactics.

That would be interesting, as it would suggest its not about AI skill its about regular players needing AIs to be changed to suit their increasing skill-bases. Which isn't really helping the game especially in bringing in new players.

Ultimately, as has been said, I think the only area of concern is random interdicts. If you grab a mission, or go to a mining res, you take the gamble and you should be smart enough to know what to bump noses with. Yes, things are tougher. Take on a ship better ranked, or better equipped, your shields are torn away like tissue paper, but you will hopefully have the wits to make the call to run or stay. If you're a chugging tanker, or a new player exploring this wonderful world, and interdicts don't give you a chance, then people will walk. Some would say good - "walk or git gud!" but Elite is a product - that's investment walking away because as a community we didn't address the concerns. That being said, if you've got concerns, put them constructively and maybe we'll get on better.

If there's an issue, imo it could be in the random attacks... which leads me to point 2:

We need people take more videos if they can. If they're constantly suffering, video, and show us, then people can see if there are problems. I think word-of-mouth never helps. "I was attacked all morning and lost x cobras" says no more than "I love this AI I can rip them apart easy!" - without evidence hard to see how the game is reflecting and how you are playing. Maybe advice can be given!

These threads devolve into attacks because there's no evidence to talk through. It just becomes opinion vs opinion, each trying to say they are factual. Helps no one.

 

[Sarah Jane Avory]

Well said!!

I'm just really really hoping FD don't cave in yet again to the moaners and ruin it.

Nope, it's going to get better. Well, needs another balancing pass perhaps, more variety in tactics (to make mid ranks a little easier), and new skills for higher ranks to make them a little less predictable.

 

[N3rd Murd3r3r]

So, long time forum lurker, first time poster.

Thought I'd run through my experience in an fully A rated (non-Engineer 'Xbox version' FDL) with the new AI as I thought it was a blast.

HIRES, Master Annie, first contact. So, I'd been on the forums briefly and paid it more respect than I previously would have due to what people were saying. Jinked in behind him, let loose with the dual beams to get the party started.

Annie immediately flicks it's rear out, FA off and turns rapidly to face me. "Ok, this is cool!" but then I start to get the feeling Kirk probably had in Undiscovered Country when the Bird of Prey starts to come round and warm up it's Disruptors. "It's ok, I've seen this film, the good guys make it in the end", I thought. Shield will take a small amount of damage whilst I jockey for position again.

Negative.

What happens then I can only compare to what it must have been like for a citizen of Alderaan who happened to be looking up on the wrong day.

<Taking heat damage>
<Shields offline>
<Taking damage>
<You've left the gas on and gone abroad>

Wot.

So limped out of that encounter with 12% hull, and only because of the monster damage of the Class 4 multi. Actually felt like all weapons were doing slightly more damage and using less capacitor?

Now I can do a bit of FA off and some tidy 4 pip flying in the FDL but often just couldn't get it where it needed to be to avoid damage. Ended up picking my targets and working with the local po-po like way back when in my Freegle. Popped a 4A shield cell bank and with my 5C bi-weave which then made my FDL do an impression of a small nova?

However, then jumped in my pimped out iCourier and it was a different ball game. Some serious Maverick/Ice Man stuff going down, but put in a good 40 mins without losing shields once (no chaff or point defence either). Only 300k credits for my efforts though due to a lower spawn rate and the po-po clearing up a bit too quickly. Great fun!

I think a few have already covered this but maybe favours the large ships slightly less? Thinking about trading in the FDL now and pimping out a iClipper for trade/missions instead.

I think my smuggling Asp just got thrown in the bin based on other threads though...