Elite / Frontier Discussion - Reaching Outer Space

...Physically therefore, I think we can kick their ass...

This bit actually makes me think of a small strip from a popular comic about suicidal rabbits. (For some reason it auto-censors the pet-name for rabbits) where a saucer lands & out pop some greys. Along comes a rabbit & whacks one of the greys between the legs. The other greys jump back into the ship, come out with a laser gun, and vapourise the rabbit before getting their injured brethen back into the ship and flying off.

The way humanity is, as a species, we'd probably be mugging the greys in order to get their ships & weapons, rather than making peace.

We can all have lofty ideals about ourselves as a species, but the fact of the matter is that we're barely even a blink in the history of the planet. It got along happily before us, and will continue to go on long after we're gone.
 
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Based on eye-witness accounts, and putting aside any tech level considerations (they are more advanced because of time, not inate skill) then so far I think we're onto a winner.
Well untill they got with real proof most or even all "withness account are fake" I estimate the chance of been visited very small. Like 2 %. Why always grey small aliens because they are populair in the crowd so the people who are addicted to attention go for that.
The majority of rednecks appear to report the classic Gray alien; childishly small with large heads and frail bodies. The rest of the reports say mainly very human in appearance, although again a bit pale and thin looking, and only one or two talk about something more like a Wookie.
Some people fantasy are restricted, they hear something and take that over. But there are exceptions. Because of the consistenty of reports it make the chance more higher that it's real. But then again the first once are already known and other take that over as there fake report.
Physically therefore, I think we can kick their ass. Mentally? Who can tell. We have a lot of practice smacking our own neighbours around, so beating up aliens should cause no qualms at all. We can get pretty riled up and organised when faced with a severe enough threat, it just might take a little time.
Well it would make sense in the middle ages where people killed each other by force or way better cavemen. Where Physical strengt is important for mostly handcombat. We now kill each other with decent tech level where a child can pull a trigger putting a hollow point in a muscle man. And take him out. We have had arms race feeded by the cold war. And war's before.
If aliens come they would be much more advance or explored space much longer then we do. And if hostile they would be very prepared like Hitler germany and Japan would be in begin off WW2 taken mostly all neighbours offgard. Like a walk in the park. GB due to it Island like isolation and the far away USA where a problem. Our weapon tech is based on fellow earth lings not to defent us agians alien invasion from high orbit. The aliens would have a extreem high ground ideal for bombardment. The first year they are better equiped till we adopt our weaponairy to this specific treat. If they didn't manage to kick our asses so hard we could not overcome.
I think our biggest problem would come from a completely alien lifeform, something insectoid perhaps. Unlikely, but a hive mind might develop and we'd be dead meat then. Very hardy, physically strong, unemotional, fast growing and not giving a damn about us at all. We wouldn't stand a chance.
Could be but if agressive alien would be weak they could go for excoskeleton. To a level they would be superiur to a stonger species. A technology also explored on earth. Also if 5.56 NAto is not suficient to stop this stronger aliens people forces adopt. Like .408 or .50 Bulpup anti alien assault rifles. The first fase of war would be a big problem but would adopt. Even alien tech get exposed to us. A arms race of a much higher level will start if there is some tech level difference.
Personally I'd love to see us discover that there are dozens of advanced species running around, and they land and clue us in on our position in the galaxy. Just watching the various religious heads trying to explain it and rewrite their myths to suit the news would be brilliant.
Me to :)
 
x=Space is big
y=time is long
z=we just missed each other, either in time or space.

x+y=z

:rolleyes: going to lay down
 
For me the thing that nobody has touched on is black holes, who knows there might be a star system out there that orbits a low gravity black hole. In all games these days there always have to be 'suns' at the center of the star systems.

Why not black holes, dark light stars or even a big gas giant these havent been touched on. I suppose its because 'suns' emit light that we can see from light years away a dark light sun would be hidden from is as would the others.
 
By there nature, you dont usually get planets orbiting a black hole. When the singularity is formed it's after the already huge sun has expanded and then collapsed violently, throwing off its outer layer. The expansion will destroy inner rocky planets, the blast and resulting gravity well probably taking care of outer planets. Anything far enough out not to be destroyed will be cooked with radiation if not thrown out of orbit. Even nearby stars start to get sucked into the singularity, so I doubt you'll get a system of any sorts.
 
Except in the case of wandering Black Holes. These naughty interstellar phenomena travel about "mugging" solar systems of planets, stars and anything else they can grab. Yes very naughty indeed!
 
If by 'mugged' you mean tearing to shreds and devouring, then yes they are naughty. I think we can safely discount black hole solar systems being something we'd find. Habitable moons around a gas giant are a possibility though, but only to a certain extent.

Gas giants tend to form farther out in the solar system because the power of the sun is weak there, and cannot burn off or blow away all the water crystals and gases that give them their gravitational power. That's why they grow so big, they have more gravity to hold on to more tenuous stuff as the planets form. This means that moons around them get little solar energy and little in the way of atmospheres.

A couple of Jupiters moons might harbour some form of life only because the gravitational forces of the planet heat the moons cores, causing massive vulcanism and electrical activity. Not nice to live on maybe, but certainly amazing places to visit.
 
That was conventional wisdom Kenny, but it has become apparent that things might not be so straight forwards. Have a look at this about star grazers http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19810065/

Then again another theory states that Gas Giants can only temporally hold on to their atmospheres at close range to their parent stars.. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/04/090422-planet-stripped-naked.html

It seems we still have a lot to learn about how solar systems function as there seems to be exceptions to every rule we dream up :S
 
That was conventional wisdom Kenny, but it has become apparent that things might not be so straight forwards. Have a look at this about star grazers http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19810065/

Then again another theory states that Gas Giants can only temporally hold on to their atmospheres at close range to their parent stars.. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/04/090422-planet-stripped-naked.html

It seems we still have a lot to learn about how solar systems function as there seems to be exceptions to every rule we dream up :S

Our old views of star system formation are certainly changing in light of the evidence. :)

Still, the planets we are seeing are not really representative of whats out there due to the way we detect planets. Currently most extra solar planets are seen by occlusion (planets passing in front of their stars blocking the light) or by the wobble caused by the gravity of the orbiting planets on it star.

Both of these detection methods are best at seeing big planets close to their stars, small rocky worlds are difficult or indeed impossible to see with these methods.

The new generation of space based telescopes however will rectify that in the coming years.

The detection of the first Terrestrial planet may not be far off... :)

As for whats out there... to quote the late Arthur C. Clarke 'The universe is not only stranger than we imagine, it's stranger than we can imagine.'
 
The research mentioned doesn't really change anything I said; gas giants get too close to the star they are ripped apart, and if they start far out they can end up closer in. Either way we end up with Jupiter and the gas giants in the mid to long range. Once in place they can capture passing bodies and they end up with a mini solar system where life can get a foothold.

No doubt there will be some strange stuff out there, but so far from what we've seen it's very likely that there are billions of solar systems not too different from our own, operating on similar rules to ours. I would give anything to see another Earth-like planet up close. Awesome cosmic displays aside, exploring a completely new biosphere would be incredible. I still occasionally see stuff in documentaries about Earth that freak me out, imagine a completely different world started on different lines.
 
Jupiter and outer large gasgiant are some times called failed stars. To smal to have pressure to get fusion. But gasgiant get massive and with that there gravitation get strong to. The first wave of exoplanet found are close and fast orbiting huger then jupiter gas giants. Wich gives the star a nice noticable wobble.

I think also that if the second larged thing in a solar system get so large that it get fusion you taklin about binairy star system. because binary starsystem aren't that excotic. star system with some gasgiant would be also something common.

The rocky planets in the life zone are to far away and often less massive wich gives the star not much of a woble and over much to long time. So I geuss new earth technology with new means to search for earth like exoplanet must be developed and they are doing it in fases. I't not only the wobble way they detect exoplanets.

one day we know a lot of planets in our region even the smaller onces in large orbits around stars.
 
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