Do I detect a tiny bit of doubt from Frontier about ED future?

[Robert Maynard]

It's not normal for a company to fund their own products now is it?

You're right, it's not - unprofitable product lines are usually shut down rather than subsidised. Elite: Dangerous is not a public service, it is a profit-making enterprise. As such, it requires to be remain profitable on its own merits.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Especially since Frontier has removed the counters of number of backers / amounts committed

Well, we can always see last numbers (3M, 52k backers) as reference. I think those could be increased a lot since E3.

 

[Patrick_68000]

For example I want landings - however I never thought I will enjoy game already without them, but it's happening. Level of detail is amazing. But I still see people claiming xxxxxxxxxxxx or good enough without landings.

Yes but difficult to ignore the planetary landings when we have experienced FE2. The game would seem amputated by a part of its soul

Well, we can always see last numbers (3M, 52k backers) as reference. I think those could be increased a lot since E3.

God hears you !

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Yes but difficult to ignore the planetary landings when we have experienced FE2. The game would seem amputated by a part of its soul

I don't say 'ignore'. I say 'enjoy' what we have now. If we will continue to believe that without landings ED is nothing, no one will buy it, and thus landings won't be produced. Just saying.

 

[KING5TON]

Does anyone except FD know the numbers that everyone else seems so confident about?

I can't wait for neurosurgeons to put up forums so we can all give our penny's worth of advice on brain surgery.

What numbers?
You don't need to be an expert or have insider knowledge to know that a company that has run a kickstarter campaign for funding, have investment from a deal last year and have made products in the past that made them money. What's so wrong that they may need to actually spend some of their own money to make or support a product they will profit from?

You're right, it's not - unprofitable product lines are usually shut down rather than subsidised. Elite: Dangerous is not a public service, it is a profit-making enterprise. As such, it requires to be remain profitable on its own merits.

Do you consider making 3 million pounds+ without actually releasing the product to the general public not profitable?

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Does anyone except FD know the numbers that everyone else seems so confident about?

I can't wait for neurosurgeons to put up forums so we can all give our penny's worth of advice on brain surgery.

Actually FD has produced two shareholder reports for everyone to see. So yes, they have money, actually lots of it, to invest in expansions. And I have no doubt that for example walking around expansion will be produced (only obstacle would be ED would have to be hideous, and I just don't see that happening at this point). Landings however is much bigger task.

So skepticism is cool, but please check your sources before going nutso what FD can or can't do.

 

[Patrick_68000]

I don't say 'ignore'. I say 'enjoy' what we have now. If we will continue to believe that without landings ED is nothing, no one will buy it, and thus landings won't be produced. Just saying.

Totally agree with you on this point. How not to take advantage of ED in its first version ? It is so magnificent.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Do you consider making 3 million pounds+ without actually releasing the product to the general public not profitable?

The 3 million is capital to fund the running costs associated with the development of the game - it will effectively be turnover rather than profit. Once the game stops being a product under development then it will be expected to contribute to the companies profits, while at the same time funding the development of any expansions.

Should the continuing investment by Frontier in the development of expansions to the game ever reach a point of unsustainability with respect to profits, I would expect that game development could be deferred, reduced or cancelled.

Frontier is a business and the principal obligation on the directors of the company is to make a profit.

 

[Philip Coutts]

Do I detect a tiny bit of making a mountain out of a molehill?

 

[gravedodger]

Do I detect a tiny bit of making a mountain out of a molehill?

Too true mate ... talk about over analysing a topic to death .... sheesh!!

I keep things simple ...

1. Start Elite
2. Join Multiplayer
3. Fly around space like a boss
4. Enjoy every minute

Keep on truckin'

 

[amigacooke]

What numbers?
You don't need to be an expert or have insider knowledge to know that a company that has run a kickstarter campaign for funding, have investment from a deal last year and have made products in the past that made them money. What's so wrong that they may need to actually spend some of their own money to make or support a product they will profit from?

We already know that FD have invested their own resources into ED. So why do you claim they haven't?

Do you consider making 3 million pounds+ without actually releasing the product to the general public not profitable?

I consider income minus expenditure to be profits.

Perhaps all the ED developers are voluntary workers?

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

We already know that FD have invested their own resources into ED. So why do you claim they haven't?

I think there's misunderstanding. KING5TON just says that FD has their own money to invest in expansions, which is true. They have invested in ED first version, which is also true, and that number could be even bigger than 3M judging by FD replies, we don't know. KING5TON was just ironic in reply regarding post about people expecting KS money covering full development of expansions.

In nutshell:
* FD have sold expansion pass, so they will have to produce expansions;
* FD have 3M in crowdfunding and unknown amount in their own money for first game, and quite possibly some of that money will go to first expansions. We know avatar design was already done outside original dev plan;
* If ED will be successful (fingers crossed), FD will be able to acquire even more financing to produce more expansions;

I consider income minus expenditure to be profits.

Perhaps all the ED developers are voluntary workers?

True, but 3M is more than twice FD expected to get during KS. It's not maybe exactly a profit, but money to cover their expenses nevertheless. Expenditure - crowdfunding money = less sales needed for FD to break even.

 

[amigacooke]

True, but 3M is more than twice FD expected to get during KS. It's not maybe exactly a profit, but money to cover their expenses nevertheless. Expenditure - crowdfunding money = less sales needed for FD to break even.

But we're still speculating because we don't know the figures.

Sadly, forum speculation can end up as established fact in the minds of some.

There is no announcement anywhere that the expansions are not going ahead as planned. In fact the opposite, FD are promoting the expansion pack on the basis that expansions will occur.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

But we're still speculating because we don't know the figures.

Sadly, forum speculation can end up as established fact in the minds of some.

There is no announcement anywhere that the expansions are not going ahead as planned. In fact the opposite, FD are promoting the expansion pack on the basis that expansions will occur.

What people do when they are waiting for news or new content? Speculate

Ok, i guess this thread have info for anyone digging it up to make up their mind. And yeah, I believe ED will be success and we will see lot of expansions.

Have fun out there,
Eagleboy out.

 

[Googol]

Especially since Frontier has removed the counters of number of backers / amounts committed

Purely speculating(TM) here, but it is possible that FD were asked/ordered by the stock exchange to remove this information because, under stock exchange rules, companies are required to publish (share) price-sensitive information on the exchange first. It could be that someone drew the exchange's attention to the fact that backers had access to information that others didn't - potentially a recipe for insider dealing.

 

[lysan]

3 MIO. is not a whole lot for a AAA game. They could generate more support if they did an effort, but as of now I don't believe that they want too. Totally different business model compared to SC/CIG.

 

[Patrick_68000]

Purely speculating(TM) here, but it is possible that FD were asked/ordered by the stock exchange to remove this information because, under stock exchange rules, companies are required to publish (share) price-sensitive information on the exchange first. It could be that someone drew the exchange's attention to the fact that backers had access to information that others didn't - potentially a recipe for insider dealing.

Perharps. I know that Frontier has not of account to render us, but a little explanation would have been welcome

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Purely speculating(TM) here, but it is possible that FD were asked/ordered by the stock exchange to remove this information because, under stock exchange rules, companies are required to publish (share) price-sensitive information on the exchange first. It could be that someone drew the exchange's attention to the fact that backers had access to information that others didn't - potentially a recipe for insider dealing.

Well, those numbers disappeared during E3. I think there's more simple explanation - something crashed, maybe due of activity. No one cared to repair it anymore.

Or they wanted to avoid to concentrate on these numbers when starting to push for more PR.

I expected them to be removed when pre-order shop launched to be honest.