Engineers Do NPCs use engineered modules?

This discussion came up in Discord the other night with a very seasoned player who I respect greatly saying that yes, the highly ranked NPC ships do use engineered modules with someone that had never been in our group before and who was exceedingly rude saying no, they don't. I've been searching around for a bit now and am surprised that my Google-Fu is so weak I can't find a definitive answer. I've seen a few posts with video "proof" but then the discussion says no, that isn't the case. I seem to be reading more examples of yes, they do than no, they don't.

So which is it? If you think yes are you 100% positive or do you just think so? Same for no. I couldn't find anything listed in patch notes but I'm thinking I likely have missed something.

I'm asking as of December, 2016 with ED version 2.2

~X
 
The highest two raked use engineered modules. Many people will try to tell you lower ranked ones do because things like "impulse attack" appear one screen. Do not listen to those people. Things like "impulse attack" come naturally with some weapons. 2.1 just added an on-screen notification for effect.
 
The highest two raked use engineered modules. Many people will try to tell you lower ranked ones do because things like "impulse attack" appear one screen. Do not listen to those people. Things like "impulse attack" come naturally with some weapons. 2.1 just added an on-screen notification for effect.

Yeah, I know "impulse attack" (and there's another one I can't remember) just mean you're getting hit by a railgun (or PA I think), I've corrected many players who thought that was due to NPC engineering. The friend I mentioned told me the same as you, that the high ranked NPCs get engineering but the lower ones don't.

Do you have any "proof" or reference for stating that? I'm not at all saying you're wrong but next time someone pops off in Discord I'd like to be able to send them a link.
 
I think if you find the 2.1.1 patch notes it will be around there.

The crucial point is that since then Elite and Deadly NPC's may get engineered modules but NEVER weapon specials.

Whether they can get modded guns without specials, I can't recall.
 
This discussion came up in Discord the other night with a very seasoned player who I respect greatly saying that yes, the highly ranked NPC ships do use engineered modules with someone that had never been in our group before and who was exceedingly rude saying no, they don't. I've been searching around for a bit now and am surprised that my Google-Fu is so weak I can't find a definitive answer. I've seen a few posts with video "proof" but then the discussion says no, that isn't the case. I seem to be reading more examples of yes, they do than no, they don't.

So which is it? If you think yes are you 100% positive or do you just think so? Same for no. I couldn't find anything listed in patch notes but I'm thinking I likely have missed something.

I'm asking as of December, 2016 with ED version 2.2

~X
NPC in 2.2 are completely braindead. They don't have any kind of upgrades at all. Not even the smalest one. Crybaby's did this..

I remember best NPC that ever was in 2.1 (day one) and 2.1 beta 4. I know the difference.

They cry for it so hard..
 
Last edited:
They use all kinds of stuff - only thing they don't use is weapon mods. You need to get lucky to get one that isn't souped up with super resistance and engine buffs.
 
They use all kinds of stuff - only thing they don't use is weapon mods. You need to get lucky to get one that isn't souped up with super resistance and engine buffs.
Please..
main-qimg-2aabda1eb8ec2f74a6d75a8d5f1bc066-c


THEY DON'T

If only they whould use it. You will never go for Incendiary multicannon. Because in 2.1 and 2.1 beta 4 they used to have even THERMAL shields and you could feel it while your laser weapon suck against it.

Again. NPC DON'T have any upgrades, effects, brain. All of what they have is absolute STOCK. However they are not a fish in a barell as it was in 2.0. Thanks for that at least..
 
Last edited:
here are the last notes from FDEV on this: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/267702-NPC-AI-Update-2-1-03-and-beyond, https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/267701

"Reduced the number of engineer mods on AI ships substantially, now only Deadly & Elite rank ships are guaranteed to have mods and any below Master are guaranteed to have none"

- in most cases you will find, that somebody claiming AI attacked with engineered weapons was in fact referring to the warning of "thermal atack" (plasma, railguns) and that other one, which is triggered by cannons...
 
here are the last notes from FDEV on this: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/267702-NPC-AI-Update-2-1-03-and-beyond, https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/267701

"Reduced the number of engineer mods on AI ships substantially, now only Deadly & Elite rank ships are guaranteed to have mods and any below Master are guaranteed to have none"

- in most cases you will find, that somebody claiming AI attacked with engineered weapons was in fact referring to the warning of "thermal atack" (plasma, railguns) and that other one, which is triggered by cannons...
Probably some , cause in reality they are no diffrence with others. I don't feel any sort of resists, or more damage or whatever. Nothing change at all. I think FD just say what everyone want to hear. Anyway not many ppl will find the difference. And there is clearly no difference. Some ppl really believe into this?

So why exactly Incendiary multicannon are so OP against NPC then?

"Whisper": because there is NO upgrades against it. No upgrade for shields and boosters and even hull for NPC anymore.
 
Last edited:
Probably some , cause in reality they are no diffrence with others. I don't feel any sort of resists, or more damage or whatever. Nothing change at all. I think FD just say what everyone want to hear. Anyway not many ppl will find the difference. And there is clearly no difference. Some ppl really believe into this?

So why exactly Incendiary multicannon are so OP against NPC then?

"Whisper": because there is NO upgrades against it. No upgrade for shields and boosters and even hull for NPC anymore.

i assume it is the usual as with all other NPC outfitting. from the time shields of them need to get back online etc., their heatlevel etc., you can very often deduct that they are (for exampel) running a 4D shield on their python etc.

e.g.: they are not running thermal resitance on biggest a-class shield, but some kind of random outfitting + random engineering... beside their weapon loadout.

i have met 1 or 2 times a elite NPC where i had the impression: uh, my DBS has serious problems to get its shields down.
 
here are the last notes from FDEV on this: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/267702-NPC-AI-Update-2-1-03-and-beyond, https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/267701

"Reduced the number of engineer mods on AI ships substantially, now only Deadly & Elite rank ships are guaranteed to have mods and any below Master are guaranteed to have none"

- in most cases you will find, that somebody claiming AI attacked with engineered weapons was in fact referring to the warning of "thermal atack" (plasma, railguns) and that other one, which is triggered by cannons...

Thanks for the links Geomon, i was trying to recall the exact quote.

I'm fairly sure most of middling rank get engineered engines simply based off how they move, and that even with good pip management, they can't move like that without engineered engines.
 
I have met Elite NPCs with engineered weapons. This is pretty easy to tell. Per example there is a thread around here now about a guy that got wrecked by an Elite Cobra which was blasting him with canons and making his ship fly off by the blast. How does that sound to you? Force Shell or not? It's 100% clear that NPCs at high rank are using HIGH RANK of engineered weapons and fits in general. About the low rank ones who knows. It's hared to tell there because they might be sneaking grade 1-2 upgrades and no specials on weapons to tell if they are packing engineered stuff.
 
Yes the higher ranked ones sometimes have modded weapons because you hear a signature voice attack. It is harder to determine whether they have modded shields etc. by their nature.
 
here are the last notes from FDEV on this: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/267702-NPC-AI-Update-2-1-03-and-beyond, https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/267701

"Reduced the number of engineer mods on AI ships substantially, now only Deadly & Elite rank ships are guaranteed to have mods and any below Master are guaranteed to have none"

- in most cases you will find, that somebody claiming AI attacked with engineered weapons was in fact referring to the warning of "thermal atack" (plasma, railguns) and that other one, which is triggered by cannons...

Thanks for the link @goemon, that's exactly what I was looking for. As the only ones who know the real answer are the developers I think I'll choose to believe them and trust what's in the patch notes.

Probably some .... ....I don't feel any sort of resists, or more damage or whatever. Nothing change at all. I think FD just say what everyone want to hear. Anyway not many ppl will find the difference. And there is clearly no difference. Some ppl really believe into this?

Impressive, you can "feel" the way a game is coded, that's a rather unique skill. As there is no way to know in game I think I'll believe what the developers - you know, the guys that actually create the game you feel, say about the situation. It always cracks me up that someone has to come up with a conspiracy theory for everything. The devs must be lying as reasons. Riiiiiiiight.

If anyone has a link to patch notes that say otherwise I'll share the links provided here next time the topic comes up.

~X
 
I do sometimes encounter deadly or elite npc's that give me a "warning! thermal attack. gaining heat" thing. Not really a problem and I never actually even had to pop a sink because of it, but it does seem to indicate at least some engineered weapons - you should only get that warning if being hit by thermal shock.
 
I've done a lot of PvE combat since 2.1 and I've never seen an NPC with weapon mod specials except for that short period when the super weapons bug was active. I'm fairly convinced they do not have any weapon mods at all. However, as indicated in FDEV's change logs, I do see mods on other modules. I am sure about mods on shield, armour and thrusters and I suspect they have capacitor mods too. Deadly and Elite NPCs always have mods, up to the highest grades (determined by RNG), Master and Dangerous NPCs have mods sometimes but not the highest grades is my impression.

Sometimes the RNG gods are very nice to an NPC and they become almost unbeatable. Recently I was in a HiRES when an Elite Python showed up. Because I was fooling around in an unmodded Viper mk3 I waited for the Police to engage first. No less than 7 Police engaged (including two Police Anacondas) and I joined in but the Python was almost invulnerable. Very slowly it's shields weakened to less than one ring and then it popped a shield cell (and a heat sink because I lost target lock each time). The Python was faster than my Viper (410 m/s) when it boosted. After 10-12 minutes it's shields went down finally. But then its hull seemed indestructible. Slowly, one percent at a time, it's hull went down despite 8 ships hitting it. I started blasting it with rockets and this clearly caused malfunctions in thrusters and powerplant a few times (not sure about weapon malfunctions though). Finally it went boom after 20 minutes or so. (Also shows how overpowered Engineers mods are BTW.)
 
I've generally noticed a fair bit of variety in NPC ship capabilities, but couldn't be sure if it's Engineering or just standard module combinations. But I have had one definite heat attack from an NPC, not just the usual 'Thermal Attack' warning type. It wasn't doing a lot of immediate damage but started cooking my ship in a few seconds. I had to pop a heatsink twice to keep from catching fire.
 
here are the last notes from FDEV on this: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/267702-NPC-AI-Update-2-1-03-and-beyond, https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/267701

"Reduced the number of engineer mods on AI ships substantially, now only Deadly & Elite rank ships are guaranteed to have mods and any below Master are guaranteed to have none"

- in most cases you will find, that somebody claiming AI attacked with engineered weapons was in fact referring to the warning of "thermal atack" (plasma, railguns) and that other one, which is triggered by cannons...

Yes, the ship's warnings concerning 'thermal attack' or 'impulse attack' just refer to tiny heat generation or impulse caused by unmodded plasma or rails respectively.

They really should be removed as they cause confusion.

I have met Elite NPCs with engineered weapons. This is pretty easy to tell. Per example there is a thread around here now about a guy that got wrecked by an Elite Cobra which was blasting him with canons and making his ship fly off by the blast. How does that sound to you? Force Shell or not? It's 100% clear that NPCs at high rank are using HIGH RANK of engineered weapons and fits in general. About the low rank ones who knows. It's hared to tell there because they might be sneaking grade 1-2 upgrades and no specials on weapons to tell if they are packing engineered stuff.

But Force Shell on a Cobra can't make a ship fly off because Force Shell on c1 or c2 cannons does next to nothing.

Unfortunately most PvE players do not use recording software but I am unaware of any video post 2.1.0 that shows an NPC using a special effect.

Yes the higher ranked ones sometimes have modded weapons because you hear a signature voice attack. It is harder to determine whether they have modded shields etc. by their nature.

No, see above, as Goemon already said. You will get 'thermal attack' and 'impulse attack' warnings because plasma imparts a tiny amount of heat to your ship and rails impart a tiny amount of force.

This is a constant source of confusion and really should be removed.

I do sometimes encounter deadly or elite npc's that give me a "warning! thermal attack. gaining heat" thing. Not really a problem and I never actually even had to pop a sink because of it, but it does seem to indicate at least some engineered weapons - you should only get that warning if being hit by thermal shock.

See above. Don't pop the heat sink, it's just stock plasma raising your temperature by some unnoticeably small amount.

If NPC's had specials we would see phasing damage v hull, we would see dispersal cannons disrupting our gimbals, we would see target lock breaker on plasma, our shields would go down to reverberating cascade torps or mines, we would see corossive and emissive, we would see our SCB's blocked by feedback cascade .... no.

Until someone somewhere posts a vid with bug report, NPC's don't have specials since FDev purposefully removed them in 2.1.1.
 
I've done a fair bit of PvE combat since 2.1 and I can't say I've noticed anything that made me think they had mods. I'm Elite combat so see plenty of Elite NPCs.

I get the warnings of different specials but they never seem to have the effect to any noticeable degree when they open fire. As already mentioned in the thread it is probably just you get that warning from certain weapons.

I've seen what the release notes say but NPC don't seem any different to 2.0 from my point of view...

Edit: Stations have reverberating cascade - they had the shields on my Vette down and destroyed in seconds twice when I was experimenting with what I could get away with lol...
 
Last edited:
I've done a fair bit of PvE combat since 2.1 and I can't say I've noticed anything that made me think they had mods. I'm Elite combat so see plenty of Elite NPCs.

I get the warnings of different specials but they never seem to have the effect to any noticeable degree when they open fire. As already mentioned in the thread it is probably just you get that warning from certain weapons.

I've seen what the release notes say but NPC don't seem any different to 2.0 from my point of view...

Edit: Stations have reverberating cascade - they had the shields on my Vette down and destroyed in seconds twice when I was experimenting with what I could get away with lol...

If you fly heavily modded ships the difference between modded and unmodded NPCs might not be very noticeable.
 
Back
Top Bottom