Do reverberating cascade torpedoes need an adjustment?

[amadeus1171]

Right now any small ship stacking up on reverberating cascade torpedoes is able to take down the shields of larger ships. Think you have a lot of protection with those 7a, 8a, or even 8a prismatic shields? Think again. It doesn't matter the size. Four reverberating cascade torpedoes will destroy your shields, regardless of size.

The damage done to the shield generator should be inversely proportional to the size of the shield.

D= y / f(S)
Where D is the damage calculated
y is the damage
f(S) is the inversely proportional correction

 

[Richard_Head]

They might pre-empt with ECM!

 

[NascentChemist]

Do you have any information about reverb torps being changed with the April update?

Otherwise, reverb torpedoes do a set amount of damage (~45, IIRC) to the shield generator directly.

 

[amadeus1171]

Reverberating torpedoes affect the shield generator, not the powerplant.

They have always been unbalanced. A small ship with four hardpoints should not be able to take down the shields of an 8A warship. Balanced would be multiple smaller ships, all stacked and armed with reverberating torpedoes to take down the shields of an 8A warship.

 

[Ziljan]

They have always been unbalanced. A small ship with four hardpoints should not be able to take down the shields of an 8A warship. Balanced would be multiple smaller ships, all stacked and armed with reverberating torpedoes to take down the shields of an 8A warship.

It depends on the mod you use for your shield. Some shield mods increase module integrity by 40%, which means you'd need 5-6 torps to drop the big ship shields. 6 torps means any small ship will be running all torps and be unable to do anything except drop the shields and then run away.

If you use reinforced shields with no ECM and have bad situational awareness and poor stick handling skills however, you run the risk of being vulnerable to torps. That's on you.

 

[amadeus1171]

It's a ridiculous mechanic and needs to be changed.

 

[HazardousMatt]

Ziljan made very good points and all you can say it's ridiculous and needs to change. Without reverb cascade there would be no chance against shield tankers. There has to be balance, a weakness. Even if you didn't have an ECM any ship with a boost over 250 can out run them. The attacker has very limited ammo with Torps. One large has only 4 Torps, so those small to medium ships wouldn't be able to do much if all they had were Torps. And if your not running a hybrid build of strong shields and strong hull than why are you PVPing?

 

[Morbad]

They do ~40 integrity damage per hit. Four will knock out a reinforced A7/prismatic, but will fail to down a thermal resistant shield A7/prismatic, or even biweave generator. As mentioned other shield classes and secondaries can significantly inflate this.

If you are getting torpedoed frequently, learning to better evade them, and/or running a higher integrity shield generator, is something you should consider. Losing your shield generator should also not doom your ship. If it does, something is wrong with your build, or you've bitten off way more than you can chew.

The only problem with reverberating cascade is that it's the only reason to take torpedoes. Torpedoes are slow, and the skill floor for reliably landing them is fairly high. Having to devote a large or two medium hardpoints to pylons is also a serious trade off.

Frankly, torpedoes and every special for them, besides reverberating cascade, could use a moderate buff.

 

[Ziljan]

Should also be noted that you can use seeker missiles to target torps. You gotta be fast on that target lock though Not sure about screening.

 

[RevCaoticFox]

Reverberating torpedoes affect the shield generator, not the powerplant.

They have always been unbalanced. A small ship with four hardpoints should not be able to take down the shields of an 8A warship. Balanced would be multiple smaller ships, all stacked and armed with reverberating torpedoes to take down the shields of an 8A warship.

theyre balanced by ammo

 

[amadeus1171]

Ziljan made very good points and all you can say it's ridiculous and needs to change. Without reverb cascade there would be no chance against shield tankers. There has to be balance, a weakness. Even if you didn't have an ECM any ship with a boost over 250 can out run them. The attacker has very limited ammo with Torps. One large has only 4 Torps, so those small to medium ships wouldn't be able to do much if all they had were Torps. And if your not running a hybrid build of strong shields and strong hull than why are you PVPing?

Sure there's a chance! Bring more ships.

 

[voidwalker]

Torpedoes can only move at 250m/s

There's your balance. Outrun them, nubs.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

Inversely proportional to shield size? That's ridiculous and would make the already overpowered defensive buffs of engineering even further.

In any case ED already addresses this. Larger shields have higher integrity values. As noted by Ziljan certain engr mods further increase this (e.g. thermal), others don't (e.g. reinforced [strangely]). You can add the double braced experimental to further increase integrity. Each torpedo does 42 integrity damage. So take your shield's integrity, divide by 42, round up, and that's how many it takes to bring your shield down.

Anyway just boost away from them. They're very slow. For added lulz, reverski away from them and shoot them. Gimballed MCs work for this just fine, I'm sure many other weapons do as well (Ziljan mentioned seekers which makes sense).

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Reverb definitely needs a change.

While FD are making things overpowered, I'd like them to add the reverb effect packhounds.

 

[Bigmaec]

Reverb definitely needs a change.

While FD are making things overpowered, I'd like them to add the reverb effect packhounds.

Reverb nudrag emissive packhounds. If you go Macross, you go full Macross

edit: forgot to post Morbad is correct, as always

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Reverb nudrag emissive packhounds. If you go Macross, you go full Macross

edit: forgot to post Morbad is correct, as always

That's what ATR should be fitted with.

 

[Crimson Kaim]

Reverberating torpedoes affect the shield generator, not the powerplant.

They have always been unbalanced. A small ship with four hardpoints should not be able to take down the shields of an 8A warship. Balanced would be multiple smaller ships, all stacked and armed with reverberating torpedoes to take down the shields of an 8A warship.

A small guy with a big toy should never be able to even scratch a pro player's shield in equal loadout matches. Yet inventions like seekers and gimbals with added cooldowns for dispersial and target lock breaker make it possible to go 4/0/2 and use stats over skill to be effective.
What am I trying to say here?
Torps are utterly underpowered. They have limited ammo, can't be synthed, fly 250 m/s max, have a high heat generation, useless primary blueprints and are lock-on only. Plus they have an arming time.

If anything they need a buff. Add 1000% more ammo and a reload time of say 60 seconds. Maybe add a dumbfire version of them.

Being hit by a torpedo is embarrassing and just shows that people fly too big ships for their skill level.
The only thing to do to avoid torps is boost in a straight line. That's all to it. No ship is slower than 250 m/s boosting and if it is, it is not worth saving.
Shields are overpowered with no demimishing return boosters and torps are a good way to counter brainless shield tankers that never dealt with module damage before.


Oh, since you find torps OP, I'll gladly demonstrate you what mines can do ... on a small ship ... against a wing of 4 Corvettes ... all alone.

 

[Cmdr Delmonte[VR]]

Erm....point defence? Even 1 on a large ship is perfectly capable of knocking torps out all day long ....

 

[Morbad]

While FD are making things overpowered, I'd like them to add the reverb effect packhounds.

And burst lasers...oh wait.

If anything they need a buff. Add 1000% more ammo and a reload time of say 60 seconds. Maybe add a dumbfire version of them.

I don't think they need more ammo to be well represented, but they definitely need something beyond reverberating cascade (which is fine as is) to make people want to use them.

A global increase in velocity back to the 400m/s they had before would be welcome as well.

I'll gladly demonstrate you what mines can do ... on a small ship ... against a wing of 4 Corvettes ... all alone.

How about a wing of one Corvette?

Erm....point defence? Even 1 on a large ship is perfectly capable of knocking torps out all day long ....

Point defense hasn't worked well on torpedoes since they were rebalanced quite a while back. They have enough integrity to absorb 30-40 seconds of PDT fire.

Many counters to torpedoes, but PDTs are not a reliable one.

 

[Ziljan]

A global increase in velocity back to the 400m/s they had before would be welcome as well.

Speed increases on torps are tricky, just like drag snare on frags. If you make torps speed = 400m/s then that draws a rather stark line between ships like the Corvettes/Conda/T10 which would then be forced to slot ECM, and Cutters who would still be able to stack shield boosters. Not exactly the balance direction that the game needs to go in imo. A speed boost to 300 would still be OK though since a T10 could technically out run it with a running start. It's either that or the Torps could go 550 m/s and then all big ships would be roughly in the same boat.

Erm....point defence? Even 1 on a large ship is perfectly capable of knocking torps out all day long ....

Unless they massively reduced the integrity of torps, I don't think this is correct. Did test a while back (so might be outdated) but PD take FOREVER to kill torps, was never able to do it myself, even with ECM spam backing them up, the torps usually just died of old age first.