Do we have cheats in open play ?

[galahad2069]

Only speculating about your and that FdL build, and the capability of the FdL pilot:

• your prismatics give you, without any other support (which you didn't mention) ~1100 MJ raw protection
• three (1 H, 2 M) focussed PAs will deal 55 SDPS raw damage up to 2 km range. 1100/55 is 20 seconds
• assuming beams on your side, an OC'ed H will give you 55 SDPS - up to 600 m range, with a maximum range of 3 km. The two unmodified (again, you didn't mention anything) L beams will add another 40 DPS to that, for a total of 100 SDPS - at 600 m range. If the FdL went all-in for shield tanking with Prismatics and Guardian boosters (you didn't mention them using SCBs), that'd mean ~6200 MJ thermal protection (for a balanced shield - thermal focussed could be larger).
• an FdL is agile, that's the point, and a good pilot will control the engagement distance. If the FdL kept the distance at ~2 km, that means he could deal full damage to you, but you would only deal ~10% of your max damage to him, so you're left with maybe 10 SDPS against his shields. During the 20 seconds he needed to take your shields down, you would have dealt then ~200 MJ worth of purely thermal damage, less than 5% of his shield strength.
• after your shields have dropped, a Grom missile would prevent you from jumping out (I just hope these Grom bombs don't work against shielded ships, I got no experience with them)
• if he's good and can hit it, three shots from a huge focussed PA are sufficient to punch through the hull and take out a Cutter's power plant

Did anyone mention yet that size isn't everything ?

No1 in their right mind is using focused PA's on a FDL, but yeah, there's nothing in what the OP described suggesting a cheat.

If you're already into damage calculations, the per shot damage of 5 efficient PA's is more than 400. It will be more than 600 with fully proc'd thermal conduit. Even more if there are some SRB PA's in the mix.

And if it was a good old plasmaram, the damage could easily have been more than 1000.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Yeah my ship of choice wasn't built specifically for butchering system security - Clipper that serves as a pirate ship and can be used for planetary scan missions - because I have a fair bit of notoriety (7 I think currently) and am based in Colonia - small place so can't easily avoid wanted status so prefer to keep all dodgy activity limited to this one ship if possible.

As a result it's a bit squishy but I managed to steamroll a fair few syssec ships with it regardless.

I use Clippers for low sec squashing- the trick is to use its speed and know the amount of kills that trigger ATR. Work with those limits and you'll never see them.

 

[Morbad]

In the first case I was unable to escape interdiction even though the left hand blue reached the end and I continued to hold the center of the escape circle for about ten seconds longer !!!!

Evading a CMDR interdiction is often very difficult and even if it looks like you're doing well, they can be doing better. The bar is quite sketchy and prone to latency.

In the second case I was interdicted by a FDL which can only have at max a Grade 5 shield. I hit it with prolonged fire from my 4A overcharged (G5) laser and two 3C lasers and its shields did not even flicker. then it fired what looked like two green fireballs at me and my 8A prismatic thermal (G5) shields disappeared in seconds , also FSD failed leaving me a sitting duck.

This is most likely a case of ignorance on your part.

Shield class doesn't mean much in and of itself. You can easily encounter an FDL with ~3000 shield and middling thermic resistance, or ~2000 shield and a lot of thermic resistance. Combined with proper use of SYS pips (~60% resistance to all damage at 4 pips) and range (lasers rapidly lose damage outside of 500-600m, unless they are focused/long range), your weapons may well have been doing virtually no damage.

Conversely, a few volleys of efficient or SRB PAs can do enormous damage, quite quickly, to a large ship with a less well considered shield setup. Knocking out the FSD after shields fail is also not difficult unless it's modded for integrity and/or protected by multiple MRPs. It's also possible to force a reboot or malfunction via numerous weapon mods.

I think I will stick to solo where the NPCs don`t cheat

Cheats exist, but I'm very doubtful there was any cheating going on in the situations you reference.

CMDRs can do things that will look like magic compared to NPCs, not because cheating is rampant, but because NPCs are radically limited in the tools and tactics they are allowed.

If you started out fighting NPCs, you were trained against opponents that were trying to lose. CMDRs generally aim for the opposite.

I usually block these players, not because they are cheaters by the strictest definition, but because their superior internet does give them an advantage that I cannot counter no matter what I do (short of getting superior internet myself, which requires moving to another town).

It doesn't much matter whose internet is better. Client side prediction/latency compensation gets noticeable any time there is a significant delay between two peers.

No, its ATR coming in having you already targeted and weapons out thats the bendy part (so they can attack on the first second of jumping in).

They also used to be able to teleport in front of you if you were outpacing them. Not sure if they still do that.

 

[Rubbernuke]

They also used to be able to teleport in front of you if you were outpacing them. Not sure if they still do that.

They don't. What they do is drop in groups. From my last set of tests I'd kill, trigger ATR and run away in a straight line (but not jump). What they do is drop groups around and in front of you, sort of like a cordon if they can't find you.

 

[Renato Bozoni]

PC version = a lot of cheaters

I dont know if in your case the pilot was cheating, but yes..theres cheaters flying around lol

 

[Morbad]

I just hope these Grom bombs don't work against shielded ships, I got no experience with them

They do, they'd be pretty useless otherwise. A thruster or FSD malfunction is easier to induce against most shieldless ships with direct damage and will achieve the same, or better, effect.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

I use Clippers for low sec squashing- the trick is to use its speed and know the amount of kills that trigger ATR. Work with those limits and you'll never see them.

Yeah I basically run once I hear them through comms - I've been doing this in one particular system only just to get onto the bounty board, and to break the 10m credit barrier (personal goal of mine off my bucket list) - it seems that you get regular 5,000cr bounties if you ram ships to death (and no notoriety), while shooting them will add notoriety and much juicier bounty amounts per kill (based on my limited observations anyways). Weird loophole that.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Yeah I basically run once I hear them through comms - I've been doing this in one particular system only just to get onto the bounty board, and to break the 10m credit barrier (personal goal of mine off my bucket list) - it seems that you get regular 5,000cr bounties if you ram ships to death (and no notoriety), while shooting them will add notoriety and much juicier bounty amounts per kill (based on my limited observations anyways). Weird loophole that.

I noticed this as well.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

I noticed this as well.

Maybe this is done to avoid accidental notoriety/bounties due to accidental rams in say CZs where you hit a friendly ship that was low on hull already

 

[Rubbernuke]

Maybe this is done to avoid accidental notoriety/bounties due to accidental rams in say CZs where you hit a friendly ship that was low on hull already

To be honest there are a lot of 'loose ends' if you look for them hard enough.

 

[Bigmaec]

Yes there are cheats/cheaters ingame.

Look in my videos, one invincible exploit and one very fishy instant interdiction.

 

[Krash]

In the second case I was interdicted by a FDL which can only have at max a Grade 5 shield. I hit it with prolonged fire from my 4A overcharged (G5) laser and two 3C lasers and its shields did not even flicker. then it fired what looked like two green fireballs at me and my 8A prismatic thermal (G5) shields disappeared in seconds , also FSD failed leaving me a sitting duck.

This can all be the result of legitimate in-game mechanics:
1. Highly thermal resistant shields
2. Cascade torps to take out shield gen
3. Grom bombs dumbfire missile to force reboot on your FSD

I once posted a video of an encounter I had with a griefer which showed obvious cheating, IMO. The community did not agree with me.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I've said it before and I say it again: If the average user can't distinguish between cheat and 'legit' upgrade there might be something amiss.

 

[Misty_Dark]

I've said it before and I say it again: If the average user can't distinguish between cheat and 'legit' upgrade there might be something amiss.

But this a common problem in many games. player skill, and knowledge of how different builds works and know how to take advantage of specific build plays a huge role in the outcome. This was not that huge of a problem in Elite from the start, but with Engineers, this gap has widened ALOT.

I doubt there are any good solutions to this, that does not dumb down and/or limit the available options in the game.



Just to note, I am not saying there aren't cheaters, I know there is cheats for Elite, but not everything is a cheater.. the more inexperienced a player is, the less likely it is that it was a cheater, as the more common reason is a skill gap and lack of understanding of game mechanics. which combined, can seems like a magic or cheating...

 

[Bigmaec]

I've said it before and I say it again: If the average user can't distinguish between cheat and 'legit' upgrade there might be something amiss.

I agree somewhat.
There is a difference though between noob tries his "E-rated Sidey against a G5'd murderboat FdL cheat" and a Cutter sitting in the mailslot tanking reverberating cascade lasers for hours.
Also fishy things like instant interdictions. And let's be honest here, I'm not considering myself the average user, so if I see things I think are fishy, chances are they are fishy.
Or the netcode The netcode is too often to blame. And TJ.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I agree somewhat.
There is a difference though between noob tries his "E-rated Sidey against a G5'd murderboat FdL cheat" and a Cutter sitting in the mailslot tanking reverberating cascade lasers for hours.
Also fishy things like instant interdictions. And let's be honest here, I'm not considering myself the average user, so if I see things I think are fishy, chances are they are fishy.
Or the netcode The netcode is too often to blame. And TJ.

The best netcode can't fix a bad connection. And there is little you can do about it when someone with a bad connection matches up with you.

 

[veryDead]

Yes. Every single game in existence has cheats and cheaters. As does every situation governed by any rules whatsoever. Period.

Get over it and just do your thing. There is nothing that can be done about it, and nothing you can say or do to change human nature.

Where there is an opportunity for an advantage, it will always be taken by someone.

 

[gooddoc]

And to think OP, I miss all this GRIPPING stuff whenever I load ED.................by NOT choosing OPEN mode.................


.............not!

 

[GunnerBill]

Cheating or not the kind of "magic spells" used on meta pvp ships just leave me cold. It seems utterly pointless engaging when they've got a spell to defeat just about anything in one shot.

 

[Brrokk]

Cheating or not the kind of "magic spells" used on meta pvp ships just leave me cold. It seems utterly pointless engaging when they've got a spell to defeat just about anything in one shot.

IMO that's part of the problem with those builds, but not the entire thing. The real problem is that those ships only have one purpose, and they're useless for any actual game activity. They're crippled when it comes to earning credits, collecting materials or doing missions. In other words, they're not for playing the game at all.

I doubt FD can do much about this by tweaking ship stats though. A meta will always be found with so many players searching for it.