Do you care about preventing combat logging?

[Drelthar]

Something tells me, that even when this poll ends with a majority of No's, someone will just create another post requesting punishment to combat loggers.

I think the issue in itself is unfair. It's extremely hard to differentiate a combat log-off from a crash, or an internet break, or even a server failure.
But instead of arguing about this, I think we should give alternate ideas to correct the offensive effect of a combat log to winning players.
And so, my opinion is this:
Since multiplayer is implemented via p2p, it's just a matter of programming from the dev's part. They made so that if a player disconnected, his ship would disappear.
Some games like homeworld have made a different approach. If a player looses connection, his ship is automatically changed to an NPC (same name, same ship, same stats, same shield, hull, etc... damage already done). If the other player kills it, it gets the proper bounty prize, and tastes the victory, without knowing he was playing against an NPC.
It's a "dungeon master's" trick that can make everyone happy.

Cheers.

It's a good idea, and it would help, but it wouldn't actually solve it for everyone.

Seems to be hard for various people to grasp, and I can understand that, but some people want to be in a more dynamic competitive environment, one in which you don't only gain positive effects upon yourself, versus a competitor, but can negatively affect the competitor as well.

A lot of people don't like this style of play, which is fine, but for those that do, having a cheat mode removes part of this dynamism from the game for them.



I've played multiplayer games which involve this kind of competition before, and the problem will never be resolved, because you can never cater to everyones tastes, some people will always prefer a different rule set to others.

I guess my personal taste is a more "hardcore" ruleset, and that's all really. Other people are free to have different preferences, but thats one of the reasons why fixing combat logging is something I would like to see happen.

 

[SnowyNI]

If a Bear combat logs in the woods and there is no one around to see it, is the Bear still a Bear in the morning?

 

[Cmdr. Jägermeister]

Elite Dangerous is about
"TAKE[ing] CONTROL OF YOUR OWN STARSHIP IN A CUT-THROAT GALAXY".
Combat logging is cheating, is clearly against the rules of Elite Dangerous and ruins the game for those who play it.
If you don´t want PvP, don´t play in open. If you play in open, be ready to die and don´t fly without rebuy.​

 

[Sandmann]

The important part of what I was trying to say, is that having such cheats basically built into the game, make the games overall quality lower, which affects everyone, if indirectly.

Yeah that I can agree with. It's just not an issue I care greatly about and I (still) don't see why some people make such a fuss about it. Sure it's dishonourable, petty, and cowardly but it doesn't hurt me one little bit so if they want to to CL, good luck to them. I still won.

Of course I play in mobius specifically to avoid the more antisocial parts of open, so I'm likely a lot less competitive than a lot of the people who complain about it.

 

[Asp Explorer]

If you don´t want PvP, don´t play in open. If you play in open, be ready to die and don´t fly without rebuy

You know - it's statements like that which drive some people to combat logging - purely to annoy anyone who treats Open as a pew-pew arena.

 

[Sandmann]

Anyone can get-in check players, log few times in most populated places and get conclsion thats all.

You can see how many players are in your particular instance, and that's all. You have zero info on how many instances there are, how many people are in them, or how many are in various groups or solo, or what any of them are doing.

 

[ryan_m]

Yeah that I can agree with. It's just not an issue I care greatly about and I (still) don't see why some people make such a fuss about it. Sure it's dishonourable, petty, and cowardly but it doesn't hurt me one little bit so if they want to to CL, good luck to them. I still won.

Do you care about people using hacks to get billions of credits, to jump 1k ly at a time, to instant rank up in Empire/Fed navy, or making their ship indestructable?

 

[Sandmann]

Do you care about people using hacks to get billions of credits, to jump 1k ly at a time, to instant rank up in Empire/Fed navy, or making their ship indestructable?

Not really. They're not playing my game.

 

[ryan_m]

Not really. They're not playing my game.

The problem is, they ARE playing my game.

 

[Vorxian]

Man - gaining money is so easy in that game. Make protest against poor C&P, but please - do not combat log. Its really not cool.
Get a rebuy on the chest sometimes, like a real man. Even if you get destroyed, then you will have respect of your enemy, and next time if you meet him you will see 'o7 cmdr', not your nickname on CL movie on Youtube
Really, join exclusive gentleman club who do not combat logging.

If my play time allows probably an hour an evening, or less caught between a family, and hectic schedules at work.. I'm lucky if I can pay back 40m in a week or two.

Then you're asking if I can take two weeks of game time on the chest like a man...

It's not so much of quick answer to that one.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Why should I pay for the losses of a trader that refused to comply with my piracy demands AND refused to put a shield on their ship? That's just as much on you as it is on me.

If you prepare, you won't die. Problem is, people want this game to be Euro Truck Simulator so they can get easy credits with no danger, which is why combat logging is a thing.

The sad thing is you're openly admitting to cheating at this game on the official forums and will literally face no repercussions for it. Imagine if I started bragging about all the millions of credits I got with this money hack script I found somewhere. It's essentially the same thing, but you delude yourself into thinking you're in a morally superior position because of "unbalanced C&P system".

You're not.

Who's really being cheated? The unarmed clean trader going about his own business who loses 40m+ credits for 'trying' to escape..... or the 'at no risk' at all 'pirate' loaded to the teeth with armament, who at worst stands to suffer an 800cr bounty?

 

[jasonbarron]

Who's really being cheated? The unarmed clean trader going about his own business who loses 40m+ credits for 'trying' to escape..... or the 'at no risk' at all 'pirate' loaded to the teeth with armament, who at worst stands to suffer an 800cr bounty?

Using this scenario neither party is being cheated, not unless one or the other combat logs.

 

[ryan_m]

If my play time allows probably an hour an evening, or less caught between a family, and hectic schedules at work.. I'm lucky if I can pay back 40m in a week or two.

Then you're asking if I can take two weeks of game time on the chest like a man...

It's not so much of quick answer to that one.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -




Who's really being cheated? The unarmed clean trader going about his own business who loses 40m+ credits for 'trying' to escape..... or the 'at no risk' at all 'pirate' loaded to the teeth with armament, who at worst stands to suffer an 800cr bounty?

No one, because this is a legitimate interaction.

Look, if you can't eat a 40 mil loss because your play time is too short, that's not my problem, and you shouldn't be able to cheat your way out of it. Maybe don't fly a big ship that you can't afford to lose or just don't play in Open.

It's still insane to me that you're trying to justify LITERALLY CHEATING in this game because you don't get to play that much.

 

[Obnoxious_Gamer]

I'll happily support combat logging, as long as you only do it against someone who only wants to kill you for the 'thrill' of clubbing baby seals. Because then they come to the forums to cry about it, and make fools of themselves in the process. It's absolutely hilarious.

 

[Flavourless]

Clarifications:
- Combat logging IS cheating - there is a rule that says so. That is not disputed.
- Logging out through the menus is legal as has been stated clearly by the devs.

Problem is, that players who log out via menu (sanctioned by FDev), whilst other players unilaterally consider them to be in combat, are seen as combat loggers - which they clearly aren't.
De Facto: If you can successfully log out via the menu, then you are not in combat by definition (you survived the 15 second cooldown), so you cannot be combat logging.

But many pure PvP players have their heads so far up their thermal cascade packhound tubes, that they suffer chronic logic failure and resort to pure emotion.

Any sane definition of combat has the prerequisite that both parties agree to armed conflict. If only one side wants it then it is pure mugging - not combat.

I personally do not care about mugging logging.


Please fix the many broken game mechanics before worrying about this misconceived issue.

 

[Vorxian]

Using this scenario neither party is being cheated, not unless one or the other combat logs.

Effectively while there's no risk to the attacker, who gets an 800cr bounty; the victim 'playing' someone elses content to be 'gentlemanly' suffers 40m cr in losses for the privilege?

I'd be more than happy to discuss this with a GM, should I get a ban. I think my case is pretty solid.

 

[Soulwind]

Why should I pay for the losses of a trader that refused to comply with my piracy demands AND refused to put a shield on their ship? That's just as much on you as it is on me.

If you prepare, you won't die. Problem is, people want this game to be Euro Truck Simulator so they can get easy credits with no danger, which is why combat logging is a thing.

If you interdict me, state your intentions and demand some of my cargo (or that I wait for a scan); I will. Heck I'll even abandon the cargo instead of just dropping it.

On the other hand, if you are a donkey hat "rp'ing a psycho killer" and simply open fire on me; I'm done with you and will instantly vanish.

 

[Sandmann]

The problem is, they ARE playing my game.

No they're not... YOU are playing your game.

I don't care if you use hacks or cheats, it has no impact on me. If I want to use them too I can, but I choose not to. I also don't care if you do sothis runs, or smuggle slaves or onionhead, or abuse seeking weapons ships, or whatever the flavour of get rich quick scheme it is today. I play for my fun, and I don't give a rat's hind quarters what you do with yours. If I shoot at you and I kill you, I've won. If I shoot at you and you log out, I've won. However, if I make arbitrary, artificial rules for myself such as "I will only gain combat rank from killing other players and I am only interested in increasing my rank" then I am allowing other players to control my fun and imposing my expectations on them... and then I LOSE and it's MY fault. However, you all are just scenery here in my sky and I aim to admire the scenery but not let it control my compass. My fun is MY business, and I will NOT allow scenery to control my fun.

 

[jasonbarron]

Effectively while there's no risk to the attacker, who gets an 800cr bounty; the victim 'playing' someone elses content to be 'gentlemanly' suffers 40m cr in losses for the privilege?

I'd be more than happy to discuss this with a GM, should I get a ban. I think my case is pretty solid.

No, your case is rubbish. The murderer can have any reason he can dream of to murder you and owes you not so much as an evil laugh. Combat logging to avoid him murdering you is cheating. Simple as that.


I've played this game primarily as a trader, smuggler and explorer, and have only recently (since 2.1 dropped) gotten into combat. Up until about 4 weeks ago I had never participated in a CG and my experience with PvP was limited to being ganked a couple times. So, Joe Everyman I guess in terms of my career choices. I've always played in Open, though. My opinion in this point in time is that in the great scheme of things the combat logger falls several rungs below the seal clubber, mobius invader, noob ganker, Jameson Memorial kamikaze camper. If a player clicks "Open" he/she has agreed to abide by the rules of the game, and as much as some of you guys want to act like that means nothing it is indeed cheating, and if it could be proven I would support a very harsh penalty...such as being forced to play Open only for something like a year, and possibly have your rank stripped and busted back to Mostly Harmless

 

[Vorxian]

I'll happily support combat logging, as long as you only do it against someone who only wants to kill you for the 'thrill' of clubbing baby seals. Because then they come to the forums to cry about it, and make fools of themselves in the process. It's absolutely hilarious.

I agree that's a major concern.. murderers that pretend to be pirates, but are there to just light you up like blackpool...

but so is trying to run...

running should be an option to, then, the pirate turns murderer. Where's the line?

I should not have to drop my pants on demand, in fear of a) 40m credit loss, or b) someone spamming a GM because I didn't drop said shorts and instead dumps the process with a quick voice attack word.. It's unbalanced. Traders are doomed if they do, doomed if they don't.

Non lethal pirate tools are the way to go, tools that bleed cargo from the 'victim'. That would add incentive's to play a pirates content, as that anger at losing the 40m credit wouldn't be on the table.

 

[OLd_Sarg]

CL is wrong, what it does is devalue another persons time, it is of course immersion braking and is a stark reminder of the massive fail of state of the crime and punishment system.
So I play in Mobius 90% for the sake of immersion, I don't like to get reminded of RL in the game, I get plenty of it doing my job in IT.