Do you feel that f-devs are killing elite dangerous?

[babelfisch]

There is no where in my post I stated ALL Elite was P2P. Combat is P2P, Missions are Multi-server side and jumps every mode for some reason. The new mission system prevents board hopping either by changing code or making less servers but bigger. Also this will be my last post on it because once again I forget this is the Internet and people fail to read and make up stuff. I have not seen a civil conversation on a forum in ages.

It's almost like you never posted this:

Have YOU considered you have absolutely no clue at all what you are talking about? Client Side = Combat logging since the host computer is in control. Server Side = THEIR host computer is end all be all. They changed the Mission board from Client Side to Server side to stop board flipping. If you can not understand that thats your problem not mine. If they can delegate what missions people get this way I see no other reason besides it is too expensive to make that change. If they do not make that change guess what it is... PvE. Sitting there breaking 6k shields on a Cutter only to have it Combat Log is not PvP in ANY universe. If you do you are part of the problem.

You are clearly suggesting that they are changing missions from client side to server side which is just plain wrong and shows that you don't know what you are talking about. You are also stating the wrong reason for it.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

All dedicated servers not hybrid virtual amazon P2P servers. I'm just translating, not looking to argue 'proper network architecture'.

Jeez, there are no such P2P servers. They all are dedicated servers, managing gameplay side of things. NPC spawning? Server. Station management? Server. Action around POIs? Server.

What's done locally via direct connection is combat. And lots of MMOs utilize direct peer connections for that, because client -> server -> client trip is SO slow. It is basically death sentence for any real time traffic games. Ohh yes, peer to peer has it's can of worms called matchmaking and session stability. But with client -> server -> client you basically wouldn't be able to fly at those speeds you regularly do.

Most of issues in real life boils down to having poor connection from ISPs, resulting in very limited upload speeds (as uploads are always smaller at Tiers).

 

[Dbrn47]

To answer the OP question:

No, I don't feel that way. They haven't been keeping me invested, but I'm not a benchmark for the death of games.

Jeez, there are no such P2P servers. They all are dedicated servers, managing gameplay side of things. NPC spawning? Server. Station management? Server. Action around POIs? Server.

What's done locally via direct connection is combat. And lots of MMOs utilize direct peer connections for that, because client -> server -> client trip is SO slow. It is basically death sentence for any real time traffic games. Ohh yes, peer to peer has it's can of worms called matchmaking and session stability. But with client -> server -> client you basically wouldn't be able to fly at those speeds you regularly do.

Most of issues in real life boils down to having poor connection from ISPs, resulting in very limited upload speeds (as uploads are always smaller at Tiers).

 

[babelfisch]

All dedicated servers not hybrid virtual amazon P2P servers. I'm just translating attempting to translate, not looking to argue 'proper network architecture'.

Apart from P2P servers not being a thing (I assume you are referring to match making?) all dedicated servers are virtual servers (at least when it comes to gaming, there are maybe some servers that don't run in a virtual machine (yet) in some old fashioned companies).

 

[Kusarii]

There are technical solutions I agree. I hope FD might give us update on where Karma system landed in the end. Is it scrapped for Beyond - might be due of amount of work - but I really hope not. Let's start with that.

As for whole "let's leave ship and let allow to take it out" setup...I just don't feel fully comfortable with that. And even FD didn't as they discussed this - most of ideas played around making ship just jump out, which would provide at least sane way to solve this gameplay wise, not leave jarring disappearance. Maybe measure damage done by opponent and apply that damage post factum minus without killing ship - so someone in fat big ship doing this will be left with huge repair bill - and make him jump much far away from place of comfrontation for example.

Thank you for actually reading and being civil btw. The reason I consider this to be the best solution is there are many people like myself who saw this game and went "Space Pirate" and even though it does not pay well the RP factor is there for it. Most of my friends left this game simply because they could not do what they wanted to do which was PvP and Piracy. If a Disconnect happens and making the ship drop out does not fix this aspect of the game nor PvP. The winner HAS to have the choice not the loser. Seriously if your losing the fight would you consider combat logging? This benefits one side which is the person instigating the disconnect or combat log even though said person took the risk to go into Private/Open to begin with. You would feel awfully short changed if all the offending person gets is hull damage and keeps his ship in PvP or gets to keep all his cargo in the case your Pirating.

 

[Dbrn47]

Apart from P2P servers not being a thing (I assume you are referring to match making?) all dedicated servers are virtual servers.

Yes, the direct connection part where you can't find players because you can't connect to them. Listen, I said I was just trying to translate, not debate what the architecture actually is or if it's proper.

 

[Old Duck]

I think it would be cool if ductape and loose wire were part of the ship integrity status.

YES! I completely agree. However, I'd like ship integrity to be related to damage to shields and hull instead of time in supercruise. You bump against an asteroid or drop out of SC too quickly, and a panel pops off and wires fall out, just like when I hit a pothole too hard (whereas if wires fell out of my SUV while driving down the newly-paved highway, I'd be demanding a recall).

 

[babelfisch]

YES! I completely agree. However, I'd like ship integrity to be connected to damage to shields and hull instead of time in supercruise. You bump against an asteroid or drop of SC too quickly, and a panel pops off and wires fall out, just like when I hit a pothole too hard (whereas if wires fell out of my SUV while driving down the newly-paved highway, I'd be demanding a recall).

That would be perfect.

 

[Kusarii]

It's almost like you never posted this:



You are clearly suggesting that they are changing missions from client side to server side which is just plain wrong and shows that you don't know what you are talking about. You are also stating the wrong reason for it.

I yield and accept i phrased it wrong.

 

[babelfisch]

Yes, the direct connection part where you can't find players because you can't connect to them. Listen, I said I was just trying to translate, not debate what the architecture actually is or if it's proper.

Yeah I got that. Just wanted to point out that basically all servers are virtual and it doesn't matter if Amazon or someone else hosts them. Apart from Amazon being evil of course.

I yield and accept i phrased it wrong.

Then I realise that I misinterpreted you based on your wrong phrasing, sorry for that.

 

[znôrt]

group hug!

 

[Hanni79]

+1 Rep for babelfisch and Kusarii for stopping "generic forum talk" and getting back into a discussion !

What a rare sight ! [woah]

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

group hug!

Let's do it.

Who else had quite difficult Monday? Sometimes Dangerous carries trough even if you disagree with lot of posts all the time.

 

[JeffRyan]

Whilst I have criticisms (I do) I often wonder how the staff keeps morale up with the CONSTANT badgering.

I get that criticism is necessary to improve the game, but too often it's a couple of loud mouths who think their way and their ideas are what will make the game great and woe and behold anyone and everyone who disagrees with them.

What I do see is that the staff do their best to communicate what they're doing without talking too early (the few times they have, they've got hammered for it when they couldn't get everything done in time for the update, ship's crew and the recent carriers and ice planets comes to mind) and listen and taking onboard criticisms that they can in order to maximise the impact of the game amongst as many players as possible at a time. (Which is a reason things I love like Power Play and Exploration haven't had the love the deserve, but they're getting around to it).

But I do wonder how they keep morale up and their staff motivated when everything they say and do causes an uproar in the community.

 

[Kusarii]

Whilst I have criticisms (I do) I often wonder how the staff keeps morale up with the CONSTANT badgering.

I get that criticism is necessary to improve the game, but too often it's a couple of loud mouths who think their way and their ideas are what will make the game great and woe and behold anyone and everyone who disagrees with them.

What I do see is that the staff do their best to communicate what they're doing without talking too early (the few times they have, they've got hammered for it when they couldn't get everything done in time for the update, ship's crew and the recent carriers and ice planets comes to mind) and listen and taking onboard criticisms that they can in order to maximise the impact of the game amongst as many players as possible at a time. (Which is a reason things I love like Power Play and Exploration haven't had the love the deserve, but they're getting around to it).

But I do wonder how they keep morale up and their staff motivated when everything they say and do causes an uproar in the community.

Part of being a company sadly. You have to have thick skin to be a developer. I do not claim to have all the answers and again part of it is the money issue. Some solutions could fix the game but cost money which is counter intuitive to what a company does. Which is make money and that has allowed DLC and such to be a thing for example. The other part is bad management and all companies have them. The ones who it is their way or the highway like a lot of people on forums. Nice to see there are civil people here unlike when I posted a year ago.

In the end it IS Braben's game and he has the final say. People who see his vision will stay and when you think about it does give pride to the developers because you can not please everyone. Also the minority usually cries the hardest. I realize that I am in the minority which is PvP focused mainly because of how big Private groups are compared to open. In the end (3-4 years if it goes that long) I am sure it will be a decent PvE game.

 

[sollisb]

So, I’ve been playing this game for a while and I loved it when I got it. It was fun, interesting, things worked and the grind wasn’t so painful. Before horizons and even after up to 2.3 really, most players didn’t have much worry about the nerf hammer and they were actually able to enjoy the game. Granted the rn-Jesus for the engineers sucked some times but was still interesting. Now with the game play, everything gets the nerf hammer almost instantly, there’s failed story narratives and there’s more problems with the game than ever before. After 6 years of have having a strong community following voicing their desires for what they want in a game, why does frontier remain so stubborn to make garbage content now? Also why does frontier insist of having this ridiculous grind to be able to do anything? I get having some grind to offset the lack of player progression or any sort of leveling system that almost every premium and free to play games have but the level of grind in this has gotten so far out of control, the game isn’t fun anymore. I want to play the game, not have to treat it as a job. Anyways that’s my rant. I’d like to hear your opinions on how you think elite has evolved since the horizons patch.

Ps, If a dev does read this, can the team start re-evaluating what you are doing to the game and maybe try listening to the community and make the game fun and enjoyable again!

Has it evolved? Of course. Has it evolved for the better? No..

Let's see.. What's been added?

New C&P; An over-convoluted, over thought mess with bugs and so complex, no-one actually knows how it's supposed to work. Add to that, they killed the KWS. Not necessarily a bad thing as it gave us an extra slot for something else. I mean, really, giving us bounty rewards and then taking 25% back because... well.. who knows..

New Engineering; Again it was unnecessary and what did it accomplish?

Combat; Broken.
Missions; Broken.
Balance; Non-Existant.
SLFs; Broken.
Module Targeting; Broken.
Docking Computer; They finally managed to fix it!
Portraits; Only work in certain colour schemes. meh
New ships; Mostly a mechanic to gain extra store purchases
Thargoids; More grind, hidden story, magical unicorn attacks on stations while servers are down.
Guardians; More grind to support the fairy story above
Planetary landings; a good addition, but station landings are a no-no in VR due to the epileptic fit inducing movement of the ship. Note: Purposely instigated by Fdev!
Planetary Materials; Good addition, but ruined by more RNG mechanics.
Ship Naming; meh, bugged, nice if you need to know what your called your ship
Commander Mannequin; Totally useless.
Fun Things; VolleyBoom, Nerfed! Passenger Missions, Nerfed! Scan Jobs, Nerfed!

I'm sat here trying to thing of something that I can praise that they [fdev] have produced, something that I can say, wow! Yes, that was cool. And unfortunately all I can think is that every where I look I see Grind, Randomness, Nerfs, and Bugs.

The final nail in the coffin is that I play NMS while on my backup rig I'm in a 40m super-cruise in Elite to deliver passengers.

 

[krylite]

I had accepted Beyond was not going to be a major update season of the gameplay back when they announced it was primarily a QoL improving season. Right, Frontier is a business and they're plan seems to be branching out to multiple franchises rather than betting all their efforts and survival of the company on one game, ED. However, I really see no sign of them so far, completely abandoning ED. There have been pleasant surprises of new asset content in the updates, great fixes to former inconvenient issues such as material bins, and a new announcement of "milestone" changes post-Beyond which is all around hopeful. It's hard enough adding content and more persistence for each player in a game of ED's massive scope, unprecedented really, when so many other space games have a much easier job with an illusory much smaller game world with a lot of shortcuts. ED has to manage flightsim like standards with some realistic precision, for not just one terrain world like FSX/X-plane but billions of variations in billions of unique systems with countless reachable locations with amazing looking perspectives. Instead of just dumping all investment in ED, they decided to gradually add to it over ten years and probably more. Which will take years and more patience than many other MMO or genre games and sometimes I wonder what is so bad about waiting especially that gamedev tech will be easier and cheaper in the future and what's in the game is already a working superb gamesim experience.

Jeez, there are no such P2P servers. They all are dedicated servers, managing gameplay side of things. NPC spawning? Server. Station management? Server. Action around POIs? Server.

What's done locally via direct connection is combat. And lots of MMOs utilize direct peer connections for that, because client -> server -> client trip is SO slow. It is basically death sentence for any real time traffic games. Ohh yes, peer to peer has it's can of worms called matchmaking and session stability. But with client -> server -> client you basically wouldn't be able to fly at those speeds you regularly do.

Most of issues in real life boils down to having poor connection from ISPs, resulting in very limited upload speeds (as uploads are always smaller at Tiers).

Great summary of the infrastructure Eagleboy. There was that video back then where FD showed some of what their servers were doing describing how so much was managed over the unprecedented massive scope of unique locations of ED. And lots of so called bugs related to connectivity are actually due to players' personal bad ISP connections, imo.

 

[Sylveria]

I think those who continually profess to "love" this game yet want it to be something else that already exists are what's "killing" this game.

They don't love the game- they love the idea of it becoming something else.

The result is mediocrity, because if Frontier dares to do it's own thing, they're met with torches and pitchforks.

 

[NMS]

Yes, though not intentionally. They try their best but all effort and intends are wasted if the result is below minimum requiernments. Bugs persist over years, balancing issues persist over years, exploits are ignored, lack of endgame content, community requests ignored, statements getting dry, announcements for announcements that revert prevous announcements that claim content is delayed. Empty statements (sneek peek of the week coming back after 2.0, Icarus Cup, etc.) without statements why they are empty.
Silencing of greater issues, "no-comment/Can't talk about it yet", no beta before a major patch, even if there is a beta - launch despite tester critique.

So many things that just contribute to bad quality and stack up. The beyond series were meant for core gameplay improvements but this is more than just a balance fix here and a rework there. Bug fixing and improvements is the most important thing to ensure proper quality. Blue tunnels, desynchs, crashes are pretty common for open players and cheating NPCs (ignore silent running etc.) are still in the game or being assigned a landing pad that is already occupied. Or how about the alliance ship family displaced UI during interdictions? Like, come on! So many bugs that are just there and ignored. This is what will make the game die at some point. That point isn't now but hte more bugs there are and the longer they persist the sooner players will go and *won't* return.
I don't know if it's lazyness or whatever but this needs attention, soon. Noone has to be a dev or a doomsayer to realize that at some point the amount of bugs will be too much for players, especially if they are game limiting like blue tunnels or DCs and crashes. Some will tolerate fewer bugs than others so better improve and optimize the game before releasing new paintjobs for ships that have misplaced hardpoint covers as well.

I could not agree more.

 

[Naskoni]

I think those who continually profess to "love" this game yet want it to be something else that already exists are what's "killing" this game.

They don't love the game- they love the idea of it becoming something else.

The result is mediocrity, because if Frontier dares to do it's own thing, they're met with torches and pitchforks.

Funny, you can read practically all the time how your kind, the white knights, constantly "explain" to people that the game is exactly how FDev wants it to be, and that if you don't like it then they simply don't align with Braben's vision for it. Might want to raise that as a concern on the next white knight round table meeting and, you know, synchronize the agenda so you all claim the same

The mediocrity in the game is a result of said crystal clear vision - apparently Braben wants it just as mediocre and buggy as it currently is, ha-ha-ha!