Does anyone actually enjoy engineering?

[D3rv1sh]

Obviously I disagree with you. It's the quickest way to gather materials and then the fun begins by engineering your ships. Grinding for me are repetitive, ineffective tasks. And what I suggested is highly effective. Contrary to e.g. surface mining ����

In video gaming, grinding is performing repetitive tasks for gameplay advantage.[1][2] Many video games use different tactics to implement, or reduce the amount of grinding in play.

Whatever you like to call it for yourself. It's called grinding. The funny thing is that Frontier decided to remove re-logging for missions, but not for mat grinding. In fact they added on top of already existing locations for mat grinding by introducing settlements like Dav's Hope. It's really bad that those are the only effective means of getting the necessary materials quickly. Not to mention the current issue with obtaining G5 materials from HGE's. If it weren't for the fact you can redo the HGE for its lifetime by re-logging, certain G5 mats would be very hard to get seeing how Frontier reset the BGS and with it all the faction states. It just hurts game play very badly.

The road towards engineering your ship modules should be fun and engaging as well. As of this time it's far from it. There should be more activities in game where you can obtain these materials without re-logging. Materials from a static source should not re-spawn instantly the moment you re-log. For example those random missions you get through the comms. Those could be used to give rewarding side missions for you to do that reward you with some pretty good mats. A missed opportunity right there. As of now these missions are utter garbage.

 

[Stewart_]

The results are good. The process is not.

I should not have to farm the same locations multiple times to get enough materials. I'm thinking of the Guardian locations that were put in place last year. It's just lazy game play implementation, amongst others.

 

[NeilF]

I like the results but hate the process.

For me it lacks any semblance of fun, skill, exclusivity or sense of achievement...it's just a painful collection process, then a painful unlocking process, then a painful travelling process, then a painful pinning process, then spamming the same button over and over until you have maxed out the module or run out of mats...rinse, repeat.

It is a truly awful implementation of crafting, possibly the worst I've experienced...and it's a lot better than it was...which is why i barely touched it before 3.0

It's actually put me off buying new ships because the thought of engineered the damn thing is too horrific, I've engineered most of the ships I use to a point I'm happy with and left it there.... never to be revisited

Amen!

 

[Burke]

Coming up on page 8 and im just going to say i think this thread was trap from from the start. Nobody enjoys engineering but with a title like that on this forum somebody was sure gonna

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

I started off liking Engineers because it forced me out of my comfort zone and I started to do more and see more in game. Thing is once you've done it I really don't like the whole rinse and repeat process necessary to get the level enhancements and the outcomes you want at that point it becomes a chore or a burden. Engineers and Guardian modules are overly padded to compensate for new, unique or original content.

The result is I now struggle to engage with Engineers. In short it was a good idea that got over used.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

....

It is a truly awful implementation of crafting, possibly the worst I've experienced...and it's a lot better than it was...which is why i barely touched it before 3.0

...

Holy Jesus, those cargo requirements. Looking for a needle in a random haystack for elements? The bloat of same sounding stuff? Roulette outcomes?

I guess it was it's child of the days of the loot box. In the heyday of randomizing rewards, missions to get rewards and the places where to get all the rewards. If anything it has really hardened me from accepting overly randomising gameplay. It has its uses but it was taken to 900% here. It always looked like a design concept with a MT shortcut in mind for "player choice" but since that was ruled out by design, it got rolled out without giving "player choice" to pay and not play.

 

[Camisade]

Do you really love the process or rather the result?

I don't mind the process, although that's probably a result of the fact that my play style and session preferences pretty much keep me stockpiled with all the mats I need to satisfy my engineering addiction. I will admit that having to get that last 10% of a G5 improvement occasionally makes me <snarl>. It does seem a bit ridiculous that it might take 10 rolls (or more!) to max out a G5...but I also realize there are some seriously diminishing returns there, and it's really not rational of me to *insist* that all the circles be fully closed! Luckily, maintaining high levels of G5 mats has been made more tolerable, now. If that gets nerfed, I'll be less happy.

And, of course, I love the result.

Mostly, I think I love the *expectation* (possibility?) of hitting on some combination of engineering mods whose synergy is unexpectedly good, and which makes a noticeable difference in how your ship (as a comprehensive, complementary) system performs. I'll literally wake up at night with the idea for some new build in my head and look forward to giving it a try. And, yes, I realize that's probably a disorder that someone needs to name... ;-)

 

[Unknown Zombie]

It's been bearable since the commodity requirements went away, and it's been enjoyable since the entire rework was done.

I've always enjoyed gameplay loops that allow me to improve my character. They give me a goal to work towards and at the end I've received a tangible reward that pays dividends because it enriches every minute of the game that I continue to play afterwards.

 

[Watcher]

Serious question. I don't mean 'do you enjoy having an engineered ship' or 'do you enjoy trying out different engineering modifications', I mean do you actually enjoy the process, the things that you do to get to that engineered module?

Acquiring vast amounts of materials, trading them when (inevitably) you don't have the one you want, at a massive loss, getting a series of lousy rolls that eat all your mats before you complete the mod you're aiming for?

I read posters on here stating that they've engineered whole fleets of ships in next to no time. I believe them- why wouldn't they tell the truth?- but I'm not enjoying anything like the same rate of progress. I decided to fully engineer my mission runner, an 'A' rated Python, back in November. I'd been tinkering with it for a while, I had what I thought was a huge amount of materials stockpiled and I'd unlocked a few engineers. I gave up half way through December and, in spite of having a whole week off at the end of the month, I didn't even flash Elite up. I just couldn't face it any more.

For most of the last four years I've put in a couple of hours a night, two or three times a week. Not exactly a power player, but not 'casual' either. Now I'm watching ED videos instead of playing- what kind of saddo does that? It's over a fortnight since I last played and I don't have any particular urge to change that.

Each completed mod has been a revelation. The Python is transformed. I really can't express how much of a difference the engineering makes- it's vastly more than finally installing 'A' class modules when I started the game.

But that's just hacking me off. It's painfully obvious just how pants stock ships are compared to engineered ones. I've got a whole fleet of vanilla ships that are a real struggle to just survive in. I don't mind running away every now and then, but the AI is balanced against much tougher kit than I'm flying. I can see where the 'git gud' crowd are coming from- my partly engineered Python is just melting AI opponents! But I'm about as 'gud' as I'm going to 'git', my fleet needs a ton of work and yeGodsinHeaven I'm burned out just getting one of them up to scratch!

I'd love to try out some of the newer ships, but I know that stock, even 'A' rated, they'll be easy pickings for dumb as a brick AI with ridiculously strong weapons and shields. It's not about skill, or lack thereof, the game's set-up is suffering from power creep. I wouldn't object to that, if engineering to the new standard wasn't such a massive pain in the posterior for me.

Am I looking at this all wrong? Is engineering actually a fun activity that I'm just not 'getting'? [uhh]

I enjoy aspects of it:

- Unlocking the Engineers can be a pain and I think could stand some improvement but it also gives you some in game objectives to work towards and gets you to try some new things, that's good.

- Likewise building up some reputation and unlocking improved upgrades is a nice idea, though again I think this could stand some improvement - I think this should be more linked to you doing things for the engineer not having them do things for you, that doesn't make sense to me...

- I like the engineering options and the idea of some compromises in what you are doing - it lets you specialise and tinker.

- I don't mind material collection, usually for me this is stuff I accumulate in general play but again having an objective of 'get stuff to do thing' is sort of nice to have. The new FSS changes help find signal sources but it the game could really give you a leg up here but telling you what sorts of signal sources where are likely to contain what you are after, the in game description is a bit too vague... If they want to get funky having the codex record where you've found things before might be a nice way of building up this information personally without just telling you..

- I was initially sceptical about remote engineering but have decided I like this. I now think FD should bite the bullet and take it further - give players the option to use any engineering upgrade they've unlocked and save the faff of flying around pinning things. Perhaps keep the experimental effects the province of visiting engineers directly and make the unlock process more interesting and not tied to actually engineering things to make this all more interesting and make more sense.


So overall, I like it I think.
I believe there is room for improvement but it is in a pretty good place now and adds positively to the game.

 

[MJC]

Well thats your problem right there.

Self inflicted grind you say... FD inflicted I say.
I still remeber playing this game before it required a lobotomy.

 

[B1rdy]

I don't mind the process, although that's probably a result of the fact that my play style and session preferences pretty much keep me stockpiled with all the mats I need to satisfy my engineering addiction. I will admit that having to get that last 10% of a G5 improvement occasionally makes me <snarl>. It does seem a bit ridiculous that it might take 10 rolls (or more!) to max out a G5...but I also realize there are some seriously diminishing returns there, and it's really not rational of me to *insist* that all the circles be fully closed! Luckily, maintaining high levels of G5 mats has been made more tolerable, now. If that gets nerfed, I'll be less happy.

And, of course, I love the result.

Mostly, I think I love the *expectation* (possibility?) of hitting on some combination of engineering mods whose synergy is unexpectedly good, and which makes a noticeable difference in how your ship (as a comprehensive, complementary) system performs. I'll literally wake up at night with the idea for some new build in my head and look forward to giving it a try. And, yes, I realize that's probably a disorder that someone needs to name... ;-)

How about mats in HGEs, which are more inconsistently than ever before? How about DWEs? Both are the epitome of tediousness for me.

 

[OHMSS]

Serious question. I don't mean 'do you enjoy having an engineered ship' or 'do you enjoy trying out different engineering modifications', I mean do you actually enjoy the process, the things that you do to get to that engineered module?

Acquiring vast amounts of materials, trading them when (inevitably) you don't have the one you want, at a massive loss, getting a series of lousy rolls that eat all your mats before you complete the mod you're aiming for?

I read posters on here stating that they've engineered whole fleets of ships in next to no time. I believe them- why wouldn't they tell the truth?- but I'm not enjoying anything like the same rate of progress. I decided to fully engineer my mission runner, an 'A' rated Python, back in November. I'd been tinkering with it for a while, I had what I thought was a huge amount of materials stockpiled and I'd unlocked a few engineers. I gave up half way through December and, in spite of having a whole week off at the end of the month, I didn't even flash Elite up. I just couldn't face it any more.

For most of the last four years I've put in a couple of hours a night, two or three times a week. Not exactly a power player, but not 'casual' either. Now I'm watching ED videos instead of playing- what kind of saddo does that? It's over a fortnight since I last played and I don't have any particular urge to change that.

Each completed mod has been a revelation. The Python is transformed. I really can't express how much of a difference the engineering makes- it's vastly more than finally installing 'A' class modules when I started the game.

But that's just hacking me off. It's painfully obvious just how pants stock ships are compared to engineered ones. I've got a whole fleet of vanilla ships that are a real struggle to just survive in. I don't mind running away every now and then, but the AI is balanced against much tougher kit than I'm flying. I can see where the 'git gud' crowd are coming from- my partly engineered Python is just melting AI opponents! But I'm about as 'gud' as I'm going to 'git', my fleet needs a ton of work and yeGodsinHeaven I'm burned out just getting one of them up to scratch!

I'd love to try out some of the newer ships, but I know that stock, even 'A' rated, they'll be easy pickings for dumb as a brick AI with ridiculously strong weapons and shields. It's not about skill, or lack thereof, the game's set-up is suffering from power creep. I wouldn't object to that, if engineering to the new standard wasn't such a massive pain in the posterior for me.

Am I looking at this all wrong? Is engineering actually a fun activity that I'm just not 'getting'? [uhh]

I really enjoy it now especially with the material traders. I enjoyed it much less before the last update. It taps into something I enjoy doing. I like building and improving "stuff" and this probably harps back to watching my dad build houses when I was a kid and then helping him as I got older. I get satisfaction out of taking something bare bones and making it viable. I don't fight the process if that makes sense. I have to engineer a ship to have a better chance of victory in combat or build a trader/multipurpose that can take a hit or two while I plot my escape route and jump. Pre-engineered ships require a different play style and there is a much greater risk. It's a part of the game and it's a part that i enjoy. I'm probably drawn to activities that have this "build and improve" element. Hunting down mats is fine as well. I can spend a whole evening by myself or with a friend doing that.

It's not just this game either. I played Shadow of the Tomb Raider recently and getting new kit and improving the character and her equipment is part of the game and enjoyable for me. I survived harder levels and did more stuff by doing so. Same here with ED.

By the way I totally get that people don't care for it, but to answer the question in your title - Yes I do. I thoroughly enjoy it.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Very mixed on this...

The actual processes of selecting a module, an upgrade and a special effect and clicking “Apply” is fine. Collecting materials is fine. Where it breaks down for me is the progressively diminishing returns.

One upgrade for G1 is fine.
I don’t mind 2 upgrades to complete G2.
I don’t mind 3 upgrades to complete G3.
I get really annoyed with 7 upgrades to complete G4.
I get really P.O.’d at 17 upgrades to complete G5.

And not even so much with the sheer number, although it can be absurd at times, but more at the massive quantities of materials consumed during the process.

I understand the thought process that went into this, and the intentions were good. The final result, however, has been found wanting. It was improved from the beta, where a single upgrade from G1 to G5 could have taken as many as 47 upgrades to complete to the 34 now, but honestly it’s still not where it should be - 15.

Add to that having to upgrade each module one at a time, each with an average of 47 upgrades to complete, and you’ll understand why I still have so many legacy modules in use.

 

[lefty1117]

I think the process is OK, i just don't like the UI and lack of in-game accessibility.

Why can't I browse ANY blueprint I've unlocked remotely? Why this silly Pin concept?

Why can't I set my ship to color code or otherwise highlight specific mats so I can spot them more quickly? Even a simple colored text differentiation for the rarity of the material would be immensely helpful.

Why aren't there material traders are many more stations in the bubble, and why isn't there just one type of material trader that covers everything instead of breaking it down between three or four?

Why can't the asteroid scanner be configured to highlight materials I may have flagged for a blueprint?

etc

It's not the process of engineering for me, it's just the lack of obvious aids and seemingly unnecessarily hidden information

 

[matemaster]

I dont enjoy it. For me it is forced necessity because NPC's have it.

 

[shreddog]

I like everything except the meeting requirements.

 

[B1rdy]

Add to that having to upgrade each module one at a time, each with an average of 47 upgrades to complete, and you’ll understand why I still have so many legacy modules in use.

Even the GUI is tedious in that regard. Why do we have to click 100 buttons, instead of "max G5" for X mats, done.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Self inflicted grind you say... FD inflicted I say.
I still remeber playing this game before it required a lobotomy.

Ye, I remember it, too. Was even fun to play mostly.

 

[Hooplah]

Look at it from the other angle. No engineering. No collecting materials. No experiencing other play styles in the game to unlock the engineers. What would you be doing? Probably complaining on the Forum because ED is galaxy wide but only a meter deep. Hmm...There were a few threads about this in the past.

 

[Kenneth McGrew]

Is engineering actually a fun activity that I'm just not 'getting'? [uhh]

its about as much fun as getting your man eggs caught in the zipper, but some folk pay money for that [uhh]

i'm just glad my play style requires minimal engineering, i feel sorry for you meta folk.