Honestly, I've never done it and don't really intend to. I'm not really into crafting in any game, and I was quite disappointed that they added it to ED. I think the game should have allowed us to engineer engine parts for extra speed and FSD range and that's it.
Does anyone actually enjoy engineering?
- Thread starter Bill Clement
- Start date
Very much like engineering, about as much as I like exploration...so new updates like additional optional slots open up more customization on my ship builds which is always fun for me.
The Process of collecting materials is a bit more mixed; If I find the materials I require in a reasonable amount of time I enjoy the task; whether it is mining planet surfaces for materials or locating HGE's.
However collecting Datamined Wake Exceptions are just incredibly horrible and have been since I first started playing ED. Another material I find horrible to obtain is Proto Radiolic Alloys; the problem is with exploration ships is that you use them for just about every single system (Lightweight weapons and systems), so I'm always starving for these...I have though had some pretty good luck getting these in the current update surprisingly.
Also a few of my "maxed" out modules actually have a fraction of a % missing. For example my G5 light-weight Point defense utility maxed out at 84.8% to weight reduction rather than 85%...this happens occasionally but it does bother me almost as much as those fractional % gains you get for each new roll.
The Process of collecting materials is a bit more mixed; If I find the materials I require in a reasonable amount of time I enjoy the task; whether it is mining planet surfaces for materials or locating HGE's.
However collecting Datamined Wake Exceptions are just incredibly horrible and have been since I first started playing ED. Another material I find horrible to obtain is Proto Radiolic Alloys; the problem is with exploration ships is that you use them for just about every single system (Lightweight weapons and systems), so I'm always starving for these...I have though had some pretty good luck getting these in the current update surprisingly.
Also a few of my "maxed" out modules actually have a fraction of a % missing. For example my G5 light-weight Point defense utility maxed out at 84.8% to weight reduction rather than 85%...this happens occasionally but it does bother me almost as much as those fractional % gains you get for each new roll.
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Nope. Not even close to my experience. I hoarded materials (much as you describe) from when engineers came out until November last year. Engineering was on my 'to do' list.
Power creep has made my A Class fleet underpowered and vanilla, so in November I decided to engineer a ship to see how the process works.
I ran out of materials at my first engineer!
Stupidly, mind numbingly boring and tedious grinding for months has taken me to now, where the Python is mostly engineered and I've got most engineers unlocked. It's a bloody nightmare and there's no way in Nine Hells anyone can just stumble across enough materials to engineer a single ship, never mind multiple ones.
I don't give a fat rat's Asp about how difficult or how much effort mega upgrades 'should' take- I didn't want the bloody upgrades in the first place! The problem is that thanks to every man and his dog flying some pimped to the max murderwagon FD have cranked up the NPCs to insane levels of strength, both offensive and defensive. Pinking away at a supposedly identical ship for what seems like forever isn't 'fun', it's a pita. That's always assuming the AI hasn't decided this NPC gets agility mods as well as super shields and mega freaking lazors, making it ridiculously difficult to get your own popguns on target to shoot back.
Of course, fly an engineered ship and the NPCs just melt.
The whole system is knackered for anyone who doesn't want to get on that engineering hamster wheel...
Don't take my word for it, though, listen to the guys:
There's no going back however (and I love engineering so I would be very strongly opposed to it!), but I think there could be several possibilities of making the process a bit better in future:
G1 to G3 upgrades could be unlocked and made available to all stations, requiring only cash/missions to purchase (Even make these available for non-horizons users). This should hopefully close the gap a little between those that have invested a considerable amount of time engineering and those that haven't, without invalidating the hard work of those that have already unlocked all the engineers, and as a side effect be a fun introduction for new players into the power of engineering.
As a possibility, have Engineers provide a mission board with missions that reward engineering rolls that can be banked; thereby providing another way of upgrading your ship without having to source materials at all. More options to obtaining upgrades I think will help...as mentioned I have trouble sourcing DWE; so engineer missions that awarded say 2xG5 engineering rolls (to be used on any upgrade at only that engineer), sounds good to me at a glance.
I would worry that it would invalidate material missions altogether, so care would be needed to make these still appealing...perhaps engineer missions should offer specific upgrades only, but then I would worry about board flipping for the right upgrade...so maybe this isn't such a good idea.
G1 to G3 upgrades could be unlocked and made available to all stations, requiring only cash/missions to purchase (Even make these available for non-horizons users). This should hopefully close the gap a little between those that have invested a considerable amount of time engineering and those that haven't, without invalidating the hard work of those that have already unlocked all the engineers, and as a side effect be a fun introduction for new players into the power of engineering.
As a possibility, have Engineers provide a mission board with missions that reward engineering rolls that can be banked; thereby providing another way of upgrading your ship without having to source materials at all. More options to obtaining upgrades I think will help...as mentioned I have trouble sourcing DWE; so engineer missions that awarded say 2xG5 engineering rolls (to be used on any upgrade at only that engineer), sounds good to me at a glance.
I would worry that it would invalidate material missions altogether, so care would be needed to make these still appealing...perhaps engineer missions should offer specific upgrades only, but then I would worry about board flipping for the right upgrade...so maybe this isn't such a good idea.
Bob Lighthouse
Banned
Nope. Not even close to my experience. I hoarded materials (much as you describe) from when engineers came out until November last year. Engineering was on my 'to do' list.
Power creep has made my A Class fleet underpowered and vanilla, so in November I decided to engineer a ship to see how the process works.
I ran out of materials at my first engineer!
Stupidly, mind numbingly boring and tedious grinding for months has taken me to now, where the Python is mostly engineered and I've got most engineers unlocked. It's a bloody nightmare and there's no way in Nine Hells anyone can just stumble across enough materials to engineer a single ship, never mind multiple ones.
I don't give a fat rat's Asp about how difficult or how much effort mega upgrades 'should' take- I didn't want the bloody upgrades in the first place! The problem is that thanks to every man and his dog flying some pimped to the max murderwagon FD have cranked up the NPCs to insane levels of strength, both offensive and defensive. Pinking away at a supposedly identical ship for what seems like forever isn't 'fun', it's a pita. That's always assuming the AI hasn't decided this NPC gets agility mods as well as super shields and mega freaking lazors, making it ridiculously difficult to get your own popguns on target to shoot back.
Of course, fly an engineered ship and the NPCs just melt.
The whole system is knackered for anyone who doesn't want to get on that engineering hamster wheel...
Don't take my word for it, though, listen to the guys:
It is what it is, but it still sounds like you haven't optimized.
If I find something tedious, I try to be as efficient as possible.
Honestly it reminds me of a kid who will spend more effort complaining than just cleaning up his room, and then takes forever when he finally gets around to it.
And you're preaching to the choir for the most part.
Besides the fact Open/PGt requires a PS Now account on my console, engineering grind is the thing that most makes me want to quit this game.
I'd prefer just vanilla ships, or once you grind out and engineer something, it's unlocked forever, like guardian. The current system is lunacy. They aren't even making microtransaction $ off it. Truly absurd IMO, there's just no good reason for it.
I'd prefer just vanilla ships, or once you grind out and engineer something, it's unlocked forever, like guardian. The current system is lunacy. They aren't even making microtransaction $ off it. Truly absurd IMO, there's just no good reason for it.
It's probably fair to say that engineering keeps me out of the game nowadays more than anything else. I shudder at the thought of looking for parts and materials.
The effects of engineering are rad.
Just the process that’s wack tbh.
Just the process that’s wack tbh.
Personalizing each ship to my specs is great. Why follow a mob mentality when my builds work better for me and the way I play.
Follow the noob crowd meta builds? That way lies madness. Meta builds, hilarious.
Follow the noob crowd meta builds? That way lies madness. Meta builds, hilarious.
Same as just about everyone else, I enjoy the effects, not the process to "earn" said effects. Too high of a time requirement, HGEs and materials can be difficult to come by, Material traders exchange rates are too high, you can only pin one engineering effect (as opposed to being able to "learn" them all) Can't apply secondaries unless you physically visit the engineer. The one thing Colonia engineers has over Bubble engineers is that they work on so many modules at a time that it isn't unreasonable to have a "visiting" requirement to apply secondaries or work on multiple engineering effects for modules. In the bubble, however, an engineer typically works on 2-4 module types and can't even g5 all of them, so it becomes a huge time-sink just to get everything done, which detracts from the gameplay that we actually want to participate in.
tl:dr, the effects are great, but the time it takes to apply those effects is too high. I'm okay with a larger time-requirement to UNLOCK an engineer, but once you have g5'd a module's effect, you should be able to take that knowlege with you anywhere. Including the secondary effects.
tl:dr, the effects are great, but the time it takes to apply those effects is too high. I'm okay with a larger time-requirement to UNLOCK an engineer, but once you have g5'd a module's effect, you should be able to take that knowlege with you anywhere. Including the secondary effects.
Nope. Not even close to my experience. I hoarded materials (much as you describe) from when engineers came out until November last year. Engineering was on my 'to do' list.
Power creep has made my A Class fleet underpowered and vanilla, so in November I decided to engineer a ship to see how the process works.
I ran out of materials at my first engineer!
Stupidly, mind numbingly boring and tedious grinding for months has taken me to now, where the Python is mostly engineered and I've got most engineers unlocked. It's a bloody nightmare and there's no way in Nine Hells anyone can just stumble across enough materials to engineer a single ship, never mind multiple ones.
I don't give a fat rat's Asp about how difficult or how much effort mega upgrades 'should' take- I didn't want the bloody upgrades in the first place! The problem is that thanks to every man and his dog flying some pimped to the max murderwagon FD have cranked up the NPCs to insane levels of strength, both offensive and defensive. Pinking away at a supposedly identical ship for what seems like forever isn't 'fun', it's a pita. That's always assuming the AI hasn't decided this NPC gets agility mods as well as super shields and mega freaking lazors, making it ridiculously difficult to get your own popguns on target to shoot back.
Of course, fly an engineered ship and the NPCs just melt.
The whole system is knackered for anyone who doesn't want to get on that engineering hamster wheel...
Don't take my word for it, though, listen to the guys:
I listen to those guys. I just don't agree with them.
Since the change which introduced the FSS and revamped signal sources, I've fully G5 engineered a Type 10 and a Krait Phantom. I've not dropped in to a single signal source. I've had to visit material traders because I got full up on biotechs, exquisite crystals and MEFs. My general material levels continue to creep up.
I don't doubt that other people are lacking materials. I just think it's because they don't hoover them up as efficiently as I do. That means I don't think mats are really too hard to find.
Your level of materials doesnt really matter. The grind level is just a superficial problem. The true kicker is the unmitigated power creep without distinction or choice.
"It too easy." "AI pushovers."
Guess what, the whole balance ran into the ground not only for player on player gameplay. They didnt even bother about vanilla players when buffing the environment. The only thing creeping up is that itchy feeling down your rear that power creep is design philosophy with little idea and plan how to design that for the overall game pop already playing the bloody game.
It sounds like I'm in the minority, here, but I actually love hunting for parts for engineering.
I didn't join until Dec 2018, so I missed a lot of this game's development. I mostly wanted a space mining game, and found out that that mining in ED had pretty much obviated any other credit grind. So compared to everyone who started playing earlier, I think I had the experience of unlocking an infinite money cheat after a couple dozen hours. If it weren't for the secondary materials economy, I think I might have lost interest once I could buy and A-rate any ship I wanted.
Luckily, I also enjoy picking through the remains of blown-up ships for salvage. I really love hunting for a planet with the right elements, tooling around in an SRV and piling up minerals. I even have fun bouncing between planetary and orbital stations looking for data points. Relogging at Dav's Hope or Jameson's crash gets boring quick, but I can fall back on it in a pinch.
I don't know why, exactly, but I find it super satisfying to take a new ship without engineering on tour to fit the experimentals and any effects I don't have pinned. Even when it's a vulture or something.
I didn't join until Dec 2018, so I missed a lot of this game's development. I mostly wanted a space mining game, and found out that that mining in ED had pretty much obviated any other credit grind. So compared to everyone who started playing earlier, I think I had the experience of unlocking an infinite money cheat after a couple dozen hours. If it weren't for the secondary materials economy, I think I might have lost interest once I could buy and A-rate any ship I wanted.
Luckily, I also enjoy picking through the remains of blown-up ships for salvage. I really love hunting for a planet with the right elements, tooling around in an SRV and piling up minerals. I even have fun bouncing between planetary and orbital stations looking for data points. Relogging at Dav's Hope or Jameson's crash gets boring quick, but I can fall back on it in a pinch.
I don't know why, exactly, but I find it super satisfying to take a new ship without engineering on tour to fit the experimentals and any effects I don't have pinned. Even when it's a vulture or something.
You have no freaking idea how much I've tried to 'optimize', oppo! The trouble is one person's optomise is another's 'you're doing it all wrong!'. And drive by comments and outrageous claims, without actually mentioning what they mean by their 'git gud' comment, doesn't help.
Trying to optomise has given me an encyclopedic knowledge of system states and faction spawns. I'm subscribed to a baffling number of youtube channels and a growing list of third party tools. That doesn't really help though, because the process is layer after layer of random.
Take signal sources. First comes the roll for a HGE, another for how far away and another for how much time is left on the timer, then the roll for what faction is associated with it, then the roll for which mat, out of a bewilderingly large number, will be in there. The chance of finding the desired mat is vanishingly small. Still, at least I can trade at 6 for 1, eh?
Mission rewards and hoovering up my kills didn't work- almost three years worth of mats were eaten by my first engineer! Just picking stuff up along the way might work if it didn't take literally hundreds of common mats for a single high grade one!
Believe me, I'm making every effort to 'optimize', but the funny thing is how many optimal approaches are borderline or even outright exploits. Combat log for a respawn when you do finally get the right result in an HGE ring any bells?
And I'm hardly some kid sloping off cleaning his room. This month isn't over and I've already put 64 hours into engineering. Last night's four hour soiree netted me a grand total of one HGE and about half a dozen NPCs who waked out before I could finish them with my popguns.
Yeah, I know, flying a part engineered Vulture is so sub optimal, what was I thinking?
Don't take it personally, mate. I'm really hacked off with the whole process and your comments are coming off as smug and condescending. I'm sure that's not what you intended, but it is what it is. I quoted a few others to show I'm not the only one struggling with this crap. They're not a choir, just fellow players, like me, who haven't ascended to the level of enlightenment/grind/blind luck (delete as appropriate) required to git gud at engineering.
Good for you. Now if you can offer some advice on how to gather mats, preferably one that doesn't involve board flips or exploits, please feel free to share it. I've followed almost every piece of advice I can find on this forum, reddit, youtube, bitchute and even various blogs and I'm still coming up empty more often than not.
I'm actually starting to hate logging in to the game...
...think there's an 'Engineers Anonymous' group I could join?
Bob Lighthouse
Banned
Are your raw mats full yet?
How about the encoded?
If no, have you used the farming sites, eg Anaconda crashes, biological sites and Jameson's Cobra?
@Bill Clement Being relatively new to the game and just going through the process myself, I hear you there....it was a real challenge at first to figure out which online resources were giving good advice, which were outdated, and which were just plain out wrong.
That being said, I fully engineered 9 ships over the course of the last couple of weeks, including unlocking (almost) all of the non-Colonia engineers (still need 1 more). I also worked in doing other activities as entertaining diversions during that same period of time. If I, a very new player, can unlock most of the engineers, gather the materials, and do the engineering on 9 ships in just a couple of weeks it is NOT nearly as bad and as grindy as some people insinuate.
Honestly, unlocking the engineers was way more effort then getting the materials....yet it is the materials you hear most of the complaints about.
BTW, relogging to get a respawn is not "Combat Logging".....it's just Logging. It is neither against the ToS nor is it an "exploit." An activity that takes advantage of a game's functionality (rather than say a bug or glitch) is only an exploit if the game designers deem it as an inappropriate way of doing things. FDev clearly doesn't have a problem with it, ergo the term exploit does not apply. Now we can talk about how it is not an engaging way to play the game (and I wouldn't disagree there) if you want.
If I could give only one piece of advice to people struggling with material gathering it would be to take advantage of the Material traders....every person I see posting about real struggles gathering materials here all seem to be way too focused on getting the "right" materials. Pick easy ways to get G4 and G5 materials of any kind....trade for what you need. It's way faster, imo.
That being said, I fully engineered 9 ships over the course of the last couple of weeks, including unlocking (almost) all of the non-Colonia engineers (still need 1 more). I also worked in doing other activities as entertaining diversions during that same period of time. If I, a very new player, can unlock most of the engineers, gather the materials, and do the engineering on 9 ships in just a couple of weeks it is NOT nearly as bad and as grindy as some people insinuate.
Honestly, unlocking the engineers was way more effort then getting the materials....yet it is the materials you hear most of the complaints about.
BTW, relogging to get a respawn is not "Combat Logging".....it's just Logging. It is neither against the ToS nor is it an "exploit." An activity that takes advantage of a game's functionality (rather than say a bug or glitch) is only an exploit if the game designers deem it as an inappropriate way of doing things. FDev clearly doesn't have a problem with it, ergo the term exploit does not apply. Now we can talk about how it is not an engaging way to play the game (and I wouldn't disagree there) if you want.
If I could give only one piece of advice to people struggling with material gathering it would be to take advantage of the Material traders....every person I see posting about real struggles gathering materials here all seem to be way too focused on getting the "right" materials. Pick easy ways to get G4 and G5 materials of any kind....trade for what you need. It's way faster, imo.
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Honestly I think engineering and the process of engineering is great. I actually look forward to new ships being released, tinkering around with builds and roles and then going out to different places and gathering the supplies needed to craft a ship with exacting specifications. I dont really find it a grind or tedious at all, except some things are a little too long in the tooth to come by (cracked industrial firmware, exquisite focus crystals and right now the lack of famines make it hard to come by data mined wake exceptions). I can always use the trader for that. Other then that, I really dont mind it at all. I have 38 ships, one of each in the game, and they are all pretty much fully engineered. I wouldn't have done it if I didnt enjoy the process
Our current system is leaps and bounds better then the slot machine mechanics we had when engineers first came out.
Our current system is leaps and bounds better then the slot machine mechanics we had when engineers first came out.