Does anyone actually enjoy engineering?

[Six6VI]

Fortunately I don't have to get Broo Tarquin's tea anymore, on another thread I was advised to try out multicannons with the incendiary exp efx. Yep, don't need no lasers now!

Tip for MC / Beam builds...

Efficient Beams might drop the power draw and heat but the damage falloff range is extremely low, around 600 metres. Instead, try G2-3 Long Range which you should be able to get from The Dweller relatively cheap and for special effects there's reduced power or weight, depending on your ship.

As an example, my FDL has one huge MC with Rapid Fire so it spins up quicker and Corrosive Shell so when it does hit it amplifies all other damage. I then have 2x medium MC with lightweight to keep my jump range over 20LY (despite Reactive Composite Armour) and Auto Loader for sustained damage.

Round that out with the 2x LR Beams and my FDL is a (PvE) murder boat on steroids.

 

[dxm55]

Tip for MC / Beam builds...

Efficient Beams might drop the power draw and heat but the damage falloff range is extremely low, around 600 metres. Instead, try G2-3 Long Range which you should be able to get from The Dweller relatively cheap and for special effects there's reduced power or weight, depending on your ship.

As an example, my FDL has one huge MC with Rapid Fire so it spins up quicker and Corrosive Shell so when it does hit it amplifies all other damage. I then have 2x medium MC with lightweight to keep my jump range over 20LY (despite Reactive Composite Armour) and Auto Loader for sustained damage.

Round that out with the 2x LR Beams and my FDL is a (PvE) murder boat on steroids.

That's an idea. I'll try LR on the Corvette perhaps and then see which one takes face faster.

 

[WinterKing2112]

Those weren't really problematic. I have a D rated Python miner with fixed beams and turret burst. Anything up to Viper / Cobra I tackled with that. No the problematic stuff was higher up, like FdL and such. I ran into a Clipper that wouldn't really take hull damage. I had to ram it with my FAS to kill it. There were several such random encounters.

Okay, truce! I will take off my troll hat and put on my friendly helper hat. Just this once tho, wouldn't want the other trolls thinking I had gone soft, they would probably b@#$er me while I was asleep under my bridge!

Anyhoo, I nearly got killed by an npc a few days ago. I was in my explorer/miner AspX, coming back from a long journey in the void, where I had found a ton of nice raw mats and lots of discovery data. Because all my ships are duel purpose, it can get a bit tight on the AspX with all that mining and exploring kit, so I only have 3A shields + 3 A-rated shield boosters. No weapons, that's just gonna reduce my jump range and slow me down if I have to run. Apart from the G4 FSD (now G5 'coz I found lots of arsenic out there on a distant planet), my shields and shield boosters are minimally engineered. Likewise my engines. My hull is engineered lightweight alloy, can't remember if it's G3 or G4.....

So I'm on the way home and I find a gas giant with a metal rich ring and I scan it and find a platinum hotspot. I have never mined metals before so I think "why the hell not!", get 64 tons of platinum, plus another 8 in the refinery and head home. I get jumped by a pirate on the way home, and it's in my home system, so I don't have another system ready to jump to, so I low wake, but I am mass locked, so going nowhere fast, and my shields are going down at an alarming rate...... I barely got home alive!

After that experience I went back to see that boozer, Didi Vatermann, and upgraded my shields and shield boosters a bit more, then went to see Auntie Felicity to get my engines upgraded a bit more too. So next time I should be able to escape the pirate without taking so much damage.

So, I am thinking on your mining python, A-rate your shield, shield boosters, and your engine. Don't bother with weapons, at least 2 of your hard points are gonna be filled with mining tools so you're gonna be at a disadvantage in a fight, so running is your best option. Engineer your shield, shield boosters and engine so you can run from those pirates and not take much damage. In a python, even minimal engineering will mean you can run from those thieving scum and not take much damage.

Now if you want to stand and trade with a pirate, don't do it in a mining ship. With 2 hardpoints dedicated to mining, you won't have enough weapons to do much damage unless those weapons are heavily engineered. A dedicated combat ship or heavily armed trader/mission runner is better for that sort of thing, and even minimally engineered you then have a fighting chance!

 

[Six6VI]

Concur on the Python's speed, even with only G3 DDT it's remarkably quick.

As such, the Python has the speed and handling to evade interdiction where the larger ships like the T-10 I use for mining do not. The smart money takes the cargo Python to where the mining vessel is and switches back to it to go and sell the mining yields, since the best prices are often found in lo-sec systems.

Check INARA.cz for the "Best Sell" before hand as they tend to migrate randomly.

 

[WinterKing2112]

Well, as it turns out, I completed Broo Tarquin faster than I thought. Because the mats which I had previously grinded for were also relevant.
Clear Liz Ryder in a flash. Just upgraded a couple of missile racks then threw them aside in the store for future use.

Brought that idiot his Fujin Tea..... which I have to sidetrack a bit to complain about.

Damned game makes it such that it intentionally forces you to make more than one run to supply him the tea. He wants 50 units of FT.
You go to Fujin, and there's only 23. You pick them all up, and think, OK I'll wait till it resupplies.
Leave the game for an hour, to go out, came back and still no FT resupp. So I log off for the day and come back tomorrow, still no FT.
Switched to the Long Range ASPX, and make the 3 jumps to Muang and drop off 23, back to Fujin, and lo and behold, 35 more units of FT are available immediately.
Really, FD, your goddamned timesink mechanics and artificial grind inflation is ridiculous.

Anyway, back to the game. Engineered most of my ships with G5 Efficient beams.
Now my Cutter can keep pips centralized.... and my 2 x huge and 2 x Med beams can just fire away without overheating or running out of juice for the better part of 20 secs.
Melts most small ships in one pass, and takes down the shields of larger ships pretty quick, just in time for a boost-in, head-on ram + G5 double shot frag cannon mix.

Now I have to find some more mats for the Corvette, two Anacondas, Python, FDL, Mamba, Krait MkII, Challenger and Vulture to be similarly equipped.
Here comes the borefest again.

So the plan is to bring them all to Broo for a G2 upgrade + Experimental effects.
I can do the rest via remote engineering.
How I wished we could pin Experimental effects too... so we don't have to bring all our ships, one by one by boring one to that old balding coot.

You do have a lot of ships, no wonder engineering is such a chore! I only have 3: my annie, which is my mission runner/trader/bounty hunter, and my AspX which is my explorer/miner. I also have an FDL, but 'cos the annie is so devastating vs npc's the FDL is sorta surplus to requirements, the poor thing! Thinking of getting a Krait 2 as a smaller mission runner/trader, so I can take missions to smaller star ports....

 

[Six6VI]

Anyway, back to the game. Engineered most of my ships with G5 Efficient beams.

As mentioned, G2-3 Long Range tends to out perform G5 Efficient

Now my Cutter can keep pips centralized.... and my 2 x huge and 2 x Med beams can just fire away without overheating or running out of juice for the better part of 20 secs.

Not sure mine ever overheat these days, with pips static at 1.5 / 1.5 / 3

Melts most small ships in one pass, and takes down the shields of larger ships pretty quick, just in time for a boost-in, head-on ram + G5 double shot frag cannon mix.

Multicannons tend to outperform Frags, especially on range...

Now I have to find some more mats for the Corvette, two Anacondas, Python, FDL, Mamba, Krait MkII, Challenger and Vulture to be similarly equipped.
Here comes the borefest again.

If it's that boring, why torment yourself?

So the plan is to bring them all to Broo for a G2 upgrade + Experimental effects.
I can do the rest via remote engineering.
How I wished we could pin Experimental effects too... so we don't have to bring all our ships, one by one by boring one to that old balding coot.

Did you actually read the post above (you liked it) where I said The Dweller can do G2-3 Laser mods? That includes experimental effects, which you can apply after a single G1 roll and they bind permanently until you change or remove them so if you pinned Broo's blueprint, The Dweller is much closer.

You claim parts of the game are boring. Is it just you insisting on doing it the hard way?

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Explain in detail, please.

I've done my share of pre-3.3 CZ's... load up on missions to kill X number of ships, for Faction Y, to receive Z in Credits, plus whatever else you might make from them in combat bonds (not much). I've sat in these until my ammo supply has been exhausted, and I was too.

So they've changed them a bit, from what I understand, to be a bit more like a "tug of war" to push one side or the other to a "win". I haven't actually seen one yet, I've gone walkabout and am 40k+ light years from the nearest human system.

So I have to ask for details - as many as I can get to make anything like an informed hypothesis before I get a chance to actually look into these for myself.

Individual CZ instances are effectively small battles with a defined end point now. Kills fill a bar and the first bar full wins. NPCs are generally more resilient than they were prior, some with engineering. Additionally more heavily engineered ships can spawn in the form of spec ops squads (groups of medium ships typically from my experience, FDLs/Asps/etc) and Captains (Usually large ships).

Overall everything feels more resilient than prior so I can understand the feeling of being nerfed out of the activity since your ammo won't go as far, especially unmodified, and your resilience may be further tested as you're trying to get kills.

House0fDerp describes it nicely.

 

[DannDruff]

For me engineered ships are OP, but I’m not going to complain about it.
Only recently did I start using engineers, so the grind for material wasn’t that bad for me.
Why do I say engineered ships are OP? Take my Krait Phantom as an example. Almost a full Gr5 FSD with mass manager as special effect, guardian module for increased jump range with a few other engineered modules. I’m close to 61LY jump range with a 6A fuel scoop and 3D shields . I went to coriolis, selected a phantom and stripped it bare. D rate everything with an A grade FSD and 6A fuel scoop. No surface scanners or shields, nothing. Maximum jump range in that ship is 31.18LY.
If I could double the jump range on an explorer, does that mean you can double the damage or shields on an engineered combat ship vs it’s A-rate equal? If so I can see why the “git-gud” argument is a ty one.

 

[Six6VI]

Luckily no, it doesn't quite work that well on all modules but engineering is OP, as is very, VERY careful consideration of your module choices for what they're going to give you versus base cost and base stats before you start engineering them. Fuel scoops, for example, aren't worth engineering at all.

Also, for Class A scoop rates vs. cost it's typically not worth going above a Class B.

 

[Daiyus73]

So far I'm enjoying Engineering. I'm still pretty new at it (despite having the game for almost two years) so I guess it still has novelty factor. Unlocking the Engineers is pushing me out of my comfort zone, particularly getting me more involved with combat, which is fun. So far just collecting materials as I go has been good enough to start building up some G1-3 modules, and seeing the improvements as they roll in is rewarding.

Will it still be fun once I've got all Engineers at Level 5 Access and I'm on the nth ship? I think like anything it'll be come a chore if I focus too much on it. Thankfully I like to keep a small fleet of specialised builds, so I won't have to interact with Engineers too much once my core five or six ships are done. As long as I keep collecting materials while I'm having fun doing whatever, then it should keep a pretty good stock for when I do have to dabble again.

I can honestly see why players trying to G5 lots of ships as quickly as possible are burning out on it though. The power creep is also evident as someone who has not had engineered ships for the longest time, hence I've been mostly avoiding combat. As my rank improves (only a Novice right now) that's only going to be compounded too.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

So far I'm enjoying Engineering. I'm still pretty new at it (despite having the game for almost two years) so I guess it still has novelty factor. Unlocking the Engineers is pushing me out of my comfort zone, particularly getting me more involved with combat, which is fun. So far just collecting materials as I go has been good enough to start building up some G1-3 modules, and seeing the improvements as they roll in is rewarding.

Will it still be fun once I've got all Engineers at Level 5 Access and I'm on the nth ship? I think like anything it'll be come a chore if I focus too much on it. Thankfully I like to keep a small fleet of specialised builds, so I won't have to interact with Engineers too much once my core five or six ships are done. As long as I keep collecting materials while I'm having fun doing whatever, then it should keep a pretty good stock for when I do have to dabble again.

I can honestly see why players trying to G5 lots of ships as quickly as possible are burning out on it though. The power creep is also evident as someone who has not had engineered ships for the longest time, hence I've been mostly avoiding combat. As my rank improves (only a Novice right now) that's only going to be compounded too.

I guess when your comabt rank isn't as high, you just dont feel the need to engineer that much. They spawn quite some ridiculou stuff at you then. I kinda got tired from just running away.

 

[dxm55]

As mentioned, G2-3 Long Range tends to out perform G5 Efficient
Not sure mine ever overheat these days, with pips static at 1.5 / 1.5 / 3

I'll try that combo on a Corvette and see how long I can hold on to the fire button without the juice running out, or overheating.

But so far the Efficient beams are working. I have 4 beams... all gimballed... 2 x Huge, 2x Med, and I like to basically close in to under 1km, and then just mash down on the fire button and keep him in sight. Don't need much tactics or maneuvering. Just tank whatever he throws at my cutter with 4 shield boosters and Reinforced G3 multiweaves.

The moment he comes in under 300m, or presents his biggest profile, usually dorsal/ventral, I just spam 3 G5 Frags at him.


I'll try your suggestion though and see if the Corvette can keep firing as long as you say it can, especially vs efficient.

Multicannons tend to outperform Frags, especially on range...

I'll try that too. Been meaning to re-equip the Corvette with MCs to test it vs the Frags.

If it's that boring, why torment yourself?

Because while the process of gathering mats is deathly boring. The end result is needed for better jump ranges, easier combat, etc.
I love one-shotting Eagles and Viper 3s. Being OP is fun.

That's why I advocate changes to engineering, especially the dice-roll process (which doesn't quite make "engineering" sense), and the materials gathering part... which could be made more interesting by gathering a lesser number, but more specific, materials by way of quests rather than scavenging around. Less grind maybe, more pew-pew to get stuff (and less stuff needed), so it's not a tedious, repetitious process.

Did you actually read the post above (you liked it) where I said The Dweller can do G2-3 Laser mods? That includes experimental effects, which you can apply after a single G1 roll and they bind permanently until you change or remove them so if you pinned Broo's blueprint, The Dweller is much closer.

You claim parts of the game are boring. Is it just you insisting on doing it the hard way?

Yep I saw it. But if I'm gonna engineer, I'm not gonna stop at 3. Might as well go the full monty and do a 5. And since I already have Broo, and beams pinned, screw The Dweller. I can always pin Long Range after I tested it and if I find it viable.

As for experimental effects, my plan is quite clear. Knowing that I won't have enough mats to do a G5 for all my ships at one go, I always do a G1 and then add the Exp effects before going off. I can do remote engineering later for the less important ships, but I can't do remote exp FX.

 

[zimms]

Also, for Class A scoop rates vs. cost it's typically not worth going above a Class B.

An A-rated fuel scoop is a statement!

 

[Six6VI]

An A-rated fuel scoop is a statement!

Rebuy a few more ships and you'll get over it

 

[dxm55]

An A-rated fuel scoop is a statement!

Actually it's convenience. Class 7, A-rated scoop refuels my Corvette in less than a minute. Madness.
What is money anyway?

 

[DannDruff]

In my case it shouts: New money VO miner

 

[DannDruff]

An A-rated fuel scoop is a statement!

In my case it shouts “New money VO miner”

 

[zimms]

In my case it shouts “New money VO miner”

Pfff, back in my day missions paid 1k credits.

 

[Six6VI]

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In my case it shouts: New money VO miner

Oh yeah, WHERE you buy things also plays a part. Highly recommend EDDB.io/station and in the "Powers" box, select "Li Yong-Rui" as ALL ships and modules are 15% cheaper, and therefore permanently reduces ALL transfer and rebuy costs. That's better than the 10% at Jameson, for everyone.

VO mining produces such outrageous profits I have no idea why FDev didn't nerf it yet?

 

[House0fDerp]

VO mining produces such outrageous profits I have no idea why FDev didn't nerf it yet?

They did a bit when abrasion lasers creating multiple chunks was patched out.