That could be a valid argument if it took many Carrier jumps to move around the Bubble or Colonia. However, as it only takes one jump, a bot won't actually help.
Does FDev care about botting?
- Thread starter Machnette
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That could be a valid argument if it took many Carrier jumps to move around the Bubble or Colonia. However, as it only takes one jump, a bot won't actually help.
There is also the ongoing bug which Frontier haven't fixed whereby Alt accounts can't use any of the Horizons features.
Any News on Broken horizons for accounts on PS4
Today - still impatient - I bought another copy of ED for the ALT from Playstation Store. I'm not having a dig at you personally but this sort of behaviour reminds of why I have no faith in FDev ever treating their player base with any real consideration. It really doesn't matter what sort of...
It's not all sweetness and light in the no VR / Kb / Mouse world of consoles.
How could they? Moving a fleet carrier is just a bunch of menu clicks, so unless Frontier adds captcha to the galaxy map, I don't see how they can tell the difference between a macro and a human. Heck, when I'm moving my carrier, I sometimes feel like a macro...
Yer I could see that being a problem. Internet is still magic and mirrors to the people who create the laws.
Cheat in any other sport or hobby and you are called out over it. Cheat on the internet and your protected.
But yup it means Fdevs hands are tied sadly !
but it isn't. so, then ... is it a bot or not?
we don't know if that's cheating or not because frontier is playing the sphinx again, but that's definitely a travel bot right there. not very different from a haul bot, and an indication of how trivial these are to make.
I really hope this doesn't end in every player, and therefore the rumored but as yet not 100% proven bots (imho), having to enter a captcha every take-off or landing or on the mission screen, or when jumping from system to system.
I really do not see alot of options for stopping this besides something obnoxious to all of us to stop the cheaters.
Oh wait, SHUTDOWN the bgs being affected by players. ONLY npc trading and npc interdictions and npc piracy could affect the npc bgs . We would all become spectators due to the cheaters.
I really do not see alot of options for stopping this besides something obnoxious to all of us to stop the cheaters.
Oh wait, SHUTDOWN the bgs being affected by players. ONLY npc trading and npc interdictions and npc piracy could affect the npc bgs . We would all become spectators due to the cheaters.
worry not, this is going nowhere.
at most expect some dull and pompous statement from frontier in a few days if there is a forum riot, but i doubt it.
It could help get to and from Colonia, which could be significantly advantageous in being able to influence multiple BGS conflicts with the smallest possible turnaround.
NPCs can't influence the BGS. They're only window dressing.
Deleted member 182079
D
"CMDR, prior to jumping to your destination, please click on the following images that contain a zebra crossing"How could they? Moving a fleet carrier is just a bunch of menu clicks, so unless Frontier adds captcha to the galaxy map, I don't see how they can tell the difference between a macro and a human. Heck, when I'm moving my carrier, I sometimes feel like a macro...
Let's not give them any ideas...
The other point that I would like to make is to echo what a few other posters have already said.
There are commanders on this forum that have a very in depth knowledge of how the BGS works and how to influence it.
I used to be part of a PS4 squardon that wanted to monopolise their little bit of the bubble.
A quick check on EDDB.IO shows that they currently have a presence in more than 50 systems, controlling 50.
All done without bots, just a very good understanding of how the BGS mechanics work, how to flip systems and how to trade, battle and bounty hunt their way to the top.
None of their activity will appear in the PC version of Open
There are commanders on this forum that have a very in depth knowledge of how the BGS works and how to influence it.
I used to be part of a PS4 squardon that wanted to monopolise their little bit of the bubble.
A quick check on EDDB.IO shows that they currently have a presence in more than 50 systems, controlling 50.
All done without bots, just a very good understanding of how the BGS mechanics work, how to flip systems and how to trade, battle and bounty hunt their way to the top.
None of their activity will appear in the PC version of Open
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Deleted member 182079
D
You seriously think if I posted about a specific cheating tool on their official forums that thread would last beyond an hour?but it isn't. so, then ... is it a bot or not?
we don't know if that's cheating or not because frontier is playing the sphinx again, but that's definitely a travel bot right there. not very different from a haul bot, and an indication of how trivial these are to make.
I don't use the FC macro myself but I don't mind if others do as it doesn't affect my game at all, or at 'worst', only positively given I've taken a ride on their carriers in the past, and because they offer an alternative to mining Tritium in Colonia (as stocks remain low and carriers are the only other source last time I checked) - personally I would however rather have Elite include all those QoL improvements some of the 3rd party apps cover (such as proper route plotting, and not having to nanny my FC's fuel management while my actual FC crew that costs me money sit on their non-existent hands), but we can probably wait until Elite Dangerous 2 comes out in 3307.
It's not easy for someone to just go into that thread and shout FOUL, especially when it helps so many people at Colonia. He was a saviour during the Colonia crisis, whereas people like me wanted to profit off the Colonia crisis and charge even more credits for the all work to get there. But seeing as automation scripts can just get carriers there overnight whilst sleeping, it's just not a big deal to the botted carrier owner to sell the fuel cheap, where I wanted to markup the price accordingly for all the work required to get there. It was deflating, and I decided not to sell at all at Colonia at all because I couldn't compete with someone doing much less work for the same job.
it's viewed as the same level as say your bank details or your amazon details... it's private. I can see the reasoning.. instead of trying to tell sites apart - gaming, gambling, gov, shopping, a forum. etc. they just treat it all the same. simplier.
Unfortunately, I understand how the OP feels.
We've had an episode of Lave Radio which looked into this and we were horrified to discover that this was quite bad, especially with powerplay. The Preparation Mechanic in Powerplay is extremely venerable to this. It was mostly used to 5th Column while hiding in solo and there's not a thing that proper players can do about it. It was one of the arguments that people use for open only or, at least, reduce the value of any perpetration activity done in solo/pvt. It doesn't take that many bots to really upset the game balance because there's no way for players who only play for a couple of hours a day to match 24 hour non stop player.
Thankfully, the BGS is not as effected as much as powerplay but the effects do stack up over time. In fact one of the reasons that Lave Station belongs to the LRN was because of an alleged bot attack on other Alliance systems and the various Alliance groups had to really work hard to counter the effects, thus allowing LSN to take Lave Station. Lave Radio don't use bot accounts and we were a bit grumpy that we won because of that but mostly relieved that the Lave War was over.
Fdev have suspended accounts over this in the past but they are very tight lipped about how they catch people and how many accounts are removed. It would be nice to know how many accounts are banned or suspended each month to reassure the community that something is being done (not naming and shaming offending commanders, just a statement that X number of accounts were suspended this week) but that seems to have fallen on deaf ears.
And here's the crux of the issue, until the community has confidence that these bot accounts are being dealt with, any loosing faction in BGS or Powerplay will always assume they're losing to a bot network. This is just as bad for a winning faction because there is always the suspicion that bot networks were used to win, which leads to less factions willing to pay against them.
We've had an episode of Lave Radio which looked into this and we were horrified to discover that this was quite bad, especially with powerplay. The Preparation Mechanic in Powerplay is extremely venerable to this. It was mostly used to 5th Column while hiding in solo and there's not a thing that proper players can do about it. It was one of the arguments that people use for open only or, at least, reduce the value of any perpetration activity done in solo/pvt. It doesn't take that many bots to really upset the game balance because there's no way for players who only play for a couple of hours a day to match 24 hour non stop player.
Thankfully, the BGS is not as effected as much as powerplay but the effects do stack up over time. In fact one of the reasons that Lave Station belongs to the LRN was because of an alleged bot attack on other Alliance systems and the various Alliance groups had to really work hard to counter the effects, thus allowing LSN to take Lave Station. Lave Radio don't use bot accounts and we were a bit grumpy that we won because of that but mostly relieved that the Lave War was over.
Fdev have suspended accounts over this in the past but they are very tight lipped about how they catch people and how many accounts are removed. It would be nice to know how many accounts are banned or suspended each month to reassure the community that something is being done (not naming and shaming offending commanders, just a statement that X number of accounts were suspended this week) but that seems to have fallen on deaf ears.
And here's the crux of the issue, until the community has confidence that these bot accounts are being dealt with, any loosing faction in BGS or Powerplay will always assume they're losing to a bot network. This is just as bad for a winning faction because there is always the suspicion that bot networks were used to win, which leads to less factions willing to pay against them.
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that's not what i said at all?
what's needed here is frontier's opinion, which is imbued with magical authority. yet they remain silent.
that's your personal opinion. you seem to take their silence to mean that these are allowed.
personally i don't care either way. the competition is too flawed to be worthwhile anyway. this makes me think how op and his buddies got to control nearly 1000 systems in the first place. swarm games. in these circumstances, i personally would give kudos for metaplay, fun and effort to anyone who takes the time and effort to set up a bot network to take over any bgs imperium. plus a cookie.
but a bot is still a bot.
Not to get into how the 'bots work, or the 'tells' they exhibit, but it's obvious if you watch them work. Previously posted threads on this subject should illuminate you. The fact that they exist isn't fantasy or self delusion on the part of BGS losers.
The issue isn't "we lost therefore they 'botted". I don't think many of the people long term players here have issues with another CMDR or group of CMDRs out playing them ON AN EVEN PLAYING FEILD. The issue is that bots can play 24/7 for weeks. Humans can't. Even dedicated players can only manage maybe 6-8 or so hours a day, figuring in life, work, sleep, food and other bodily functions... Bots don't need that. You would need 3 humans to play like clockwork, every day, for weeks, to match ONE bot that could mindlessly continue to play into infinity. If you "bot" 25 accounts it becomes an overwhelming force. And if they play in SOLO, you'd never see them except in the traffic reports.. as mentioned by the OP.
This is what the OP is upset about.
As for my own thoughts on the subject.. I think of scripts/bots as a very slippery slope. Is the auto-docking module a cheat ? What about external tools, like the trading sites ? Route plotters ? Voice Attack ? If you're going that far, what about my programmable keyboard ? I have things that it does for me, as an example : I have the right arrow key ( normally one pip to WEP ) as a down arrow ( reset ) and then two right arrows for maximum WEP. Useful to me, but a script none the less. Or my VKB HOTAS ? I have things scripted into that. Am I "pay to win" because I can afford a $300 stick and $200 opto-mechanical programmable keyboard ? Or am I just making use of my assets ? What if my assets involve a non-production VMWare cluster at work that can run 120 instances of Windows 10 and a redundant 10gig connection to my local Tier 1 ISP ? Declaring this one "good" and this one "bad" is a matter of perspective and depends on whether you're standing in front of ( or behind ) said "improvement". Personally, I think they all need to go.
FD needs to be a little more transparent on how they are combating this issue. I absolutely HATE to use Blizzard as an example, but they've done public purges of bot accounts. Other games/publishers have as well. And FD can't quietly remove one or two, it has to be public.
Game integrity depends on it.
The issue isn't "we lost therefore they 'botted". I don't think many of the people long term players here have issues with another CMDR or group of CMDRs out playing them ON AN EVEN PLAYING FEILD. The issue is that bots can play 24/7 for weeks. Humans can't. Even dedicated players can only manage maybe 6-8 or so hours a day, figuring in life, work, sleep, food and other bodily functions... Bots don't need that. You would need 3 humans to play like clockwork, every day, for weeks, to match ONE bot that could mindlessly continue to play into infinity. If you "bot" 25 accounts it becomes an overwhelming force. And if they play in SOLO, you'd never see them except in the traffic reports.. as mentioned by the OP.
This is what the OP is upset about.
As for my own thoughts on the subject.. I think of scripts/bots as a very slippery slope. Is the auto-docking module a cheat ? What about external tools, like the trading sites ? Route plotters ? Voice Attack ? If you're going that far, what about my programmable keyboard ? I have things that it does for me, as an example : I have the right arrow key ( normally one pip to WEP ) as a down arrow ( reset ) and then two right arrows for maximum WEP. Useful to me, but a script none the less. Or my VKB HOTAS ? I have things scripted into that. Am I "pay to win" because I can afford a $300 stick and $200 opto-mechanical programmable keyboard ? Or am I just making use of my assets ? What if my assets involve a non-production VMWare cluster at work that can run 120 instances of Windows 10 and a redundant 10gig connection to my local Tier 1 ISP ? Declaring this one "good" and this one "bad" is a matter of perspective and depends on whether you're standing in front of ( or behind ) said "improvement". Personally, I think they all need to go.
FD needs to be a little more transparent on how they are combating this issue. I absolutely HATE to use Blizzard as an example, but they've done public purges of bot accounts. Other games/publishers have as well. And FD can't quietly remove one or two, it has to be public.
Game integrity depends on it.
They could have one of those plumber mini games before each FC jump.
"Coolant venting in progress, adjust tritium tubing!"
Everyone loves minigames, right? Right?
"Coolant venting in progress, adjust tritium tubing!"
Everyone loves minigames, right? Right?
Again, its down to poor design choices that allow 5C with this. Sandro had the proposed idea of weighting, which if done would make 5C preps require much more work to do- it would result in fewer weaponized expansions (which are the 'controlled' legit version of this tactic) but would make 5C much more difficult. Its side effects are debatable, but f you want to lock out bots and exploits you have to grab the problem by the balls.
There was some dude running a script for carriers and he offered transfers for CMDRs. I remember because he explained that he wants explicitly test the script / autopilot for the carrier. I was a bit surprised nobody found it weird, but since I don't play anymore - well, I dint bother.
I mean multiboxing is considered cheating in other games too - afaik you need to do item duping repeatedly to get some sort of regulation in ED. And FD actually profits from selling additional accounts, so I doubt they look too harshly.
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