Does it make financial sense to explore with a Carrier ?

[Rat Catcher]

I'm yet to be convinced on that part cmdr.

Unless I note that there is better yield of Tritium in Hotspots in Icy Rings, I'd much prefer to fill up my Carrier in the bubble @ 50k/T & only Mine for Tritium as a last resort if I drain my Carrier's hold of fuel.
I've yet to see my Mining of Tritium come anywhere close to being efficient, unlike what I find when Mining in Platinum Hotspots for Platinum.

In a single hotspot I can mine in excess of 200t an hour of Tritium, not exactly pitiful, if not ignoring other minerals / metals some other 'sellable' stuff can be picked up along the way too.

The FC owner need never have to buy Tritium and has the potential to remain 'in the black' for as long as they wish...
As for efficiency in mining Platinum to buy Tritium, it is OK if in the bubble, but a 1,000t of Platinum won't fill up your FC 44,000 LY from anywhere - or even if you are in Colonia, without either mining it or buying from another FC.

But, if I were to be planning an extended trip out (as the OP mentions) an hour of mining will get 1,000+ LY of carrier jump, if only using the FC as a base to explore from before jumping another 500+ LY the time used for mining can pale into insignificance compared to exploration time.

It is the 'normal' debate though, so it is obvious that logic is going to be thrown down the pan as usual.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

If you like to grind to play, maybe. If not you're better off just using a normal ship.

 

[Winterwalker]

I've yet to see my Mining of Tritium come anywhere close to being efficient, unlike what I find when Mining in Platinum Hotspots for Platinum.

Subsurface deposits are key to Tritium mining being efficient, imo.

I mined up 4kT for a Colonia-Sagg return trip over course of a few football games on t' wirelss, feeling no pain at all. In fact Tritium is so target rich and parking carrier right at the ring, I really enjoyed it.

I run full services on carrier and even when some are stood down I'm pretty sure keeping payments and fuel fully serviced by the week would be a fair chore for a single commander especially. MUCH less for a squad but, while there will probably be two of us on expedition, that's how I'd personally view it .. expedition.

Expeditions usually being of a set duration with stock and finances arranged - in dock - ahead of time, I think it's a mistake to think of carriers being 'financially viable' on too short term. By week or day, probably no but being viable over months or quarters much more likely.

 

[Zieman]

When out exploring I would make about 10 to 15 mill credits per hour

This is hilarious!
When I got my exploration Elite, it was 10-15 million per week, and that meant at least 5 sessions of 2-3 hours each.

No, I'm not saying that the earnings should go back to that level (although the idea has some merit , if done across the board, not just exploration, and combined with all accounts all assets gone while keeping mats/ranks/titles/tags), that ship sailed past about 4 years ago!

But for the Pilots Fededation ranks to mean something, the relative effort should go back to that level.

 

[gooddoc]

In a single hotspot I can mine in excess of 200t an hour of Tritium, not exactly pitiful, if not ignoring other minerals / metals some other 'sellable' stuff can be picked up along the way too.

The FC owner need never have to buy Tritium and has the potential to remain 'in the black' for as long as they wish...
As for efficiency in mining Platinum to buy Tritium, it is OK if in the bubble, but a 1,000t of Platinum won't fill up your FC 44,000 LY from anywhere - or even if you are in Colonia, without either mining it or buying from another FC.

But, if I were to be planning an extended trip out (as the OP mentions) an hour of mining will get 1,000+ LY of carrier jump, if only using the FC as a base to explore from before jumping another 500+ LY the time used for mining can pale into insignificance compared to exploration time.

It is the 'normal' debate though, so it is obvious that logic is going to be thrown down the pan as usual.

Well I'm not seeing that.
Using the exact same method for Mining, I NEVER fail to fill my Ship cargo hold with Platinum in a hotspot......& usually have to ditch limpets along the way to overcome a full hold.
Yet in a Tritium hotspot I have used up ALL my limpets (same number as above) & have only got 50-60T of Tritium in return.

Therefore I can only conclude that Tritium Mining produces a poor yield return, when as it's vital for Carrier fuel, it should IMO be akin to a Platinum hotspot return.

 

[Kenneth McGrew]

I got my carrier when they first came out and have made two long trips out into the back only returning to refuel. I have gone through about 36,000 tons of Tritium on the two trips combined, purchasing all Tritium in the bubble at around 4200 credits per ton. When out exploring I would make about 10 to 15 mill credits per hour and been wondering if it makes sense to go exploring with a Carrier now.

Carrier Cost for 10 week trip

Maintenance 18,000,000 a week times 10 weeks = 180,000,000

15,000 tons of Tritium is about 780,000,000. At 52,000 per ton

180,000,000 + 780,000,000 = 960,000,000 or 96,000,000. Cost Per Week

At 15 mil per hour I would have to explore to 6.5 hours per week just to break even. ( remember Carrier takes 25% of sold data )

Also, must look at the time to load the Carrier with fuel. There was a CG to enable full size stations with large landing pads able to sell Tritium. After that CG I haven’t seen one station with a large landing pad have any amount of Tritium over 150 tons of Tritium and I have looked daily. So that puts one loading about 192 tons per trip from medium pad ship.

Time to load 15,000 tons at 192 tons per trip = 7 to 8 hours just to load Carrier, at about 5.5 min per trip.

There was nothing I did on those two trips with the carrier I couldn’t have done in a single ship.

What do you think is it worth the cost to Explore with Carrier ?

isn't the real question;

Do you want to spend your life looking at a countdown timer in the shipyard, or spend your life jump honking?

because the only real use of a carrier is travelling somewhere in a different manner, there's plenty of FC already out there to sell your data to, and which have shipyards, so having your own personal cartographic service is a bit of a mute point, the only benefit is if you need a 500ly range on the edge of the galaxy.

financially speaking, its like asking if it makes financial sense commuting to work 200 miles a day to a minimum wage, part time job for an hour a day in a 4.4l V8 Range Rover

 

[gooddoc]

Subsurface deposits are key to Tritium mining being efficient, imo.

I mined up 4kT for a Colonia-Sagg return trip over course of a few football games on t' wirelss, feeling no pain at all. In fact Tritium is so target rich and parking carrier right at the ring, I really enjoyed it.

This is the point I'm making.

Tritium is a VITAL resource to fuel a Carrier, it should be more easily available to Mine than having to go towards Mining for Subsurface deposits.

If I can readily Mine Platinum & then sell these wares to fund my buying of Tritium, because it's easier than Mining for Tritium, then there's something wrong with this part of the gaming mechanic.

 

[Rock Hunter]

It’s the options that a Fleet Carrier provides in the Black that make it so worthwhile for me.

Specialist ships for specialised roles tens of thousands of light years from home is amazing. These ships helped me to actually explore what I was exploring rather than ‘chalk it up.’ Canyon racing iCourier, High G Cobra with x2 srv’s, Sidey for feeling tiny, T9 for mining (and one for feeding the monster.) The option to quickly jump 500lys at a time and then explore an area or explore and drag it along behind me so if I found somewhere cool I don‘t have to bring it back.

Cost-wise it really isn’t that bad, but like Veronica, I don’t have many things installed and those I do are turned off until I need them. Around 11M a week is easily made, for me, just by exploring between Carrier jumps.

 

[K Olley]

Well I'm not seeing that.
Using the exact same method for Mining, I NEVER fail to fill my Ship cargo hold with Platinum in a hotspot......& usually have to ditch limpets along the way to overcome a full hold.
Yet in a Tritium hotspot I have used up ALL my limpets (same number as above) & have only got 50-60T of Tritium in return.

Therefore I can only conclude that Tritium Mining produces a poor yield return, when as it's vital for Carrier fuel, it should IMO be akin to a Platinum hotspot return.

I am seeing similar, using my T9's, 512 cargo space, laser, SD, SSD and Cores mined.

Metallic ring 250 limpets = full hold
Metal rich ring 350 limpets = full hold
Icy ring 450 limpets = 450 - 500 cargo, rarely get more than 350 Tritium

The only time I seem to do better in Icy is when mining in a bromellite hotspot, Samarium is the lowest priced I take apart from in Icy where I also take lithium and MMC's up to a certain limit for mission board prices.

SSD mining can be a pain, I only usually carry on T9's a 1B SSDM and as you only get a half ammo load I tend to be very sparing in its use, Tungsten is not the easiest to replenish, it seems to be surface mined only. The other option is to swap out the 2B SCL for a 2B SSDM then almost every other rock seems to be a Core

 

[Winterwalker]

If I can readily Mine Platinum & then sell these wares to fund my buying of Tritium, because it's easier than Mining for Tritium, then there's something wrong with this part of the gaming mechanic.

You can do that, it's a free market. My point only being that, while subsurface mining takes a little skill, the Tritium pours out so no problem doing it in the black. Also on the upside your exploration ship doesn't need long jump range any more, you've got a carrier for that. Don't need defend yourself, ditch your shields and with explorer/survey ship set up to be able to mine, your surface scanner is dual purpose now, can map your planets AND lock your fuel hotspots.

Hydrogen is - readliy - available to ships, any scoopable star. Tritium being less so is how the carrier gets it's virtual mass, so in fact it's a totally logical gaming mechanic that tritium is less easy to get hold of, or it would be as ubiquitous as hydrogen and your carrier just as light in mass. If you want the convenience of a docking platform the fuel is less convenient than it is to a ship, that relies on AFMU to survive. Totally sensical.

 

[gooddoc]

To be fair as well, what put me off other types of Mining was the sudden bug of the PWS.

I used to fire it off quite a bit & go to sparkley 'roids..........it took soo long to recitfy that Iv only used it once or twice since Frontier fixed it. So I only get to Sub Surface stuff when using my Cutter & actually running into that type of 'roid.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Well I'm not seeing that.
Using the exact same method for Mining, I NEVER fail to fill my Ship cargo hold with Platinum in a hotspot......& usually have to ditch limpets along the way to overcome a full hold.
Yet in a Tritium hotspot I have used up ALL my limpets (same number as above) & have only got 50-60T of Tritium in return.

Therefore I can only conclude that Tritium Mining produces a poor yield return, when as it's vital for Carrier fuel, it should IMO be akin to a Platinum hotspot return.

A roundabout debate as I can go into the hotspot at Carcosa CD2 (single hotspot so nothing special) in my python and come out 40 minutes later with 190t of mostly Tritium (I take anything that gets mined) gained from SSD and laser mining. It is normal to abandon 20-60 of the 96 limpets taken along.

So you have terrible results and I (who am no miner) have excellent results - it's a strange game we play.
Even on 'random' hotspots found when mining my way to the bubble on my first FC Colonia trip I was picking up Tritium at the same average rate as I went along.

ETA: Having read on from the comment referred to - Most of the Trritium I mine is from SSD - I have 2 C2 SSDM on my Python as I miss the 'twitch' quite often...

 

[Astaran]

isn't the real question;

Do you want to spend your life looking at a countdown timer in the shipyard, or spend your life jump honking?

because the only real use of a carrier is travelling somewhere in a different manner, there's plenty of FC already out there to sell your data to, and which have shipyards, so having your own personal cartographic service is a bit of a mute point, the only benefit is if you need a 500ly range on the edge of the galaxy.

financially speaking, its like asking if it makes financial sense commuting to work 200 miles a day to a minimum wage, part time job for an hour a day in a 4.4l V8 Range Rover

The highlighted part is actually debatable, since it largely depends on the way the individual commander "flys" his FC.

You can fly ahead in your "normal" explorer and drag the FC behind with remote jump orders.You only need to rendevouz with the carrier, once the Tritium tank is empty and you have to refuel from the storage.

A second option is to plot your jumps, while you're doing other stuff in RL. That's how I made the 15k journey over the weekend. Every 20 minutes or so I would return to the PC to schedule the next jump, in the meantime I took care of issues in RL. Another variant is to "afk plot" jumps while you're actually watching a movie/series on your TV or second monitor. Elite is simply running in the background (when it otherwise wouldn't be running at all).

I don't think many (experienced) FC commanders would genuinely plot multiple jumps in succession and keep sitting in front of the PC just to watch the timer count down. You either can play the game normally and fly ahead of your FC, or you use the opportunity to take care of other stuff while the carrier is jumping.

 

[Susanna]

As others here have noted already, a trip in the FC out into the Black is more than just the cost of maintenance and Tritium... There is the value that having access to other activities that the FC provides. I break up my exploration in my FC with mining as and when I find a decent ring... Scanning rings has no value without an FC nearby to mine them from. So these would otherwise be ignored in my exploration. As it is, I now seek out rings when exploring and mine if I find a good spot for mats. Not so much Tritium, but certainly the upper value mats I mine as I go so that I have a bunch of materials to trade for more Tritium when I get back to the bubble. I would get bored with the exploration if I didn't have this alternative available, or planetary exploration if find something interesting (e.g. a high G planet that I can drop my T10 on).

An FC has changed the way I explore too. I jump then scan all the systems within a jump or two with the Krait Phantom (c. 150ly radius). If I find something interesting to mine I move the FC to that planet and mine until bored with that. If I'm bored with both the exploration and mining then the main account is used for something else for a while.

Does exploration in an FC break even? Probably not...
Do I care? Not really.
I have an FC in the bubble (main account) and that makes way more than the Exploration account (in the last 24 hrs alone it made 550mil profit) so it more than pays for both FCs... I just use Tritium buy/sell between FCs to transfer credits between the two accounts if needed.

FCs offer a changed of pace when I want it and this is what keeps me engaged with ED - especially until Odyssey drops...

 

[Deleted member 38366]

As the owner gets a 87.5% return on own UC sales (75% into CMDR account, 12.5% into Carrier account), the UC sales from the owner typically can easily stem the upkeep.
This might require to tag a few terraformable Planets but this gets the job done nicely, even with a limited amount of time spent per week.

Things do change quite a bit when the Carrier's max. Range is exceeded and Tritium reserves are depleted or scheduled to be depleted.
Tritium Mining in generic Hotspots works.... but the time factor is a real killer.
All repetition to that and you risk getting "Tritium PTSD".

Still, while Exploration can keep a Carrier afloat, pure Exploration with a Carrier shouldn't be done with Credits in mind.
If Credits are still deemed an important factor, it's typically better to use other Carriers for occasional pitstops instead.
In my view, Exploring with a Carrier is for Explorers that have long left benign issues such as Credits behind them and solely focus on other priorities.

 

[K Olley]

ETA: Having read on from the comment referred to - Most of the Tritium I mine is from SSD - I have 2 C2 SSDM on my Python as I miss the 'twitch' quite often...

I was actually wondering what I was doing wrong because even running with a 3 laser setup and ignoring all other commodities and lower Tritium rocks I could only get to about 150t an hour in a good hotspot, looks like I better get another Python and give it a try

 

[Rat Catcher]

I was actually wondering what I was doing wrong because even running with a 3 laser setup and ignoring all other commodities and lower Tritium rocks I could only get to about 150t an hour in a good hotspot, looks like I better get another Python and give it a try

They make a difference, particularly now that the PWA is 'working as intended' and highlighting stuff in front of the ship!
I think the best I've had from a single rock is around 32t - but that was 4 SSD & 30% Tritium!
Just laser mining, or dropping into a spot with rare SSD's (which I have seen, then left and dropped back in after a couple of seconds SC to 'normal expected' yields!) can give low yields as it depends on the 'goodness' of the rocks you find.

In an 'average' session I have the Python filled in 45 mins - and am very happy to drop that off and do something else for a couple of days!

 

[Ydiss]

If you just want to make credits I'd definitely ignore the carrier entirely. It offers only a few situational benefits, none that increase credits earned.

With up to 60-80 ly range, a properly fitted ship (amfu x2, srv and a full load of raws to refuel amfu units) and spansh neutron plotting, you can cover vast distances rapidly (easily 4-5kly an hour), allowing long range excursions within a much shorter time frame than previously possible. So long as you're not bothered about the risk of losing data and you can commit about 4 to 8 hours each way just "getting there and back", there's no real benefit with the carrier (excluding big jumps to unreachable stars but... If that's not your objective...)

I spent one week in my asp and completed a round trip of about 60kly in that time.

You're often never far from someone else's carrier anyway if you urgently need to pit stop.

But... If you cannot commit that time and need the 500ly jumps every 20 minutes because you can't play much then everything changes. It just depends on your needs and objectives. But if that's "make money" then I'd leave the carrier at home and build a long distance durable neutron jumper (or just hunt valuable systems close to home)

 

[marx]

Does it make financial sense to explore with a carrier? Yes, if you're not exploring alone. Fleet carriers make organising group exploration much easier, and, as was already noted, bring a shipyard and folks can switch over to other activities too. Maybe hold a racing competition or something.

And yes, judging by my experience, if you can get a small group of active explorers, the carrier will be profitable. It'd still take well over a year to recover its purchase cost(s) though - and well, good luck getting everyone to stay exploring on the carrier that long.
However, the downside is that you, the carrier owner, will spend a considerable amount of time organising things. Time which you could spend doing... whatever the current gold rush is.
So, in a strictly financial sense, carrier exploration is not really worth it in group, and definitely not worth it in solo.

However, moving on from credits, to utility, organising, or well, simply fun: it is very much worth it it for groups.

 

[K Olley]

Things do change quite a bit when the Carrier's max. Range is exceeded and Tritium reserves are depleted or scheduled to be depleted.
Tritium Mining in generic Hotspots works.... but the time factor is a real killer.
All repetition to that and you risk getting "Tritium PTSD".

This is one of the things that gets me, I do do some exploring what this thread is about, but not having the need to having a long range ultra light dedicated explorer as the carrier covers problems like that, I can explore in most of my ships, its not unknown for me to slap an SRV bay and scoop into a mining T9, nothing wrong with exploring with a T9, and one of my Asp's has got lasers and refinery fitted, lets blast a few rocks while I wait for my carrier to arrive. The carrier gives you Flexibility, make the most of it.

The Range you can get out of a light weight carrier compared with one maxed to the gills with Tritium is quite a lot, probably more than most carrier owners realise.

Still, while Exploration can keep a Carrier afloat, pure Exploration with a Carrier shouldn't be done with Credits in mind.
If Credits are still deemed an important factor, it's typically better to use other Carriers for occasional pitstops instead.
In my view, Exploring with a Carrier is for Explorers that have long left benign issues such as Credits behind them and solely focus on other priorities.

Totally agree, although my mining activities are earning very well there are other uses that carriers can be set up for very easily but Credits must also be taken into account.

I have got enough in my accounts (carrier+ cmdr) that upkeep is not a problem, and unless they bring in something more than on foot pew pew with Odyssey that is a major cost Credits are the least of my worries.