Double-tap throttle controls

[Rimsplitter]

I use an Xbox controller with the PC but this idea might translate to other input systems too.

I suggest making a double-tap of the accelerator set 100% throttle and a double-tap of the decelerator set to 0% throttle. I already have the Back button set to 75% throttle, so with double-tap I would not have to reach for the keyboard at all for quick throttle settings.

EDIT: In fact, thinking about it, there could be one general double-tap sensitivity slider for gamepad buttons and then the double-tap of each button could be assignable to the existing hotkey settings, thus doubling the amount of keybindings that players could set on their gamepad.

 

[Magic Man]

Would potentially cause lots of annoyance when you just wanted to add a little extra thrust and, instead, you've done it too quickly and it's been interpreted as a double tap instead and you are now suddenly at full throttle.
The axis response are quick enough anyway, you'd only have to hold the trigger for a second for it to goto full throttle so can't really see the point.

 

[Rimsplitter]

There could be a sensitivity slider to set the double-tap interval and the feature could be optional, just like many of the other control settings.

It doesn't matter whether you can see the point. The developers can because they already included optional keymappings for 0%, 50%, 75% and 100% settings. I'm just suggesting another way to access a feature that is already coded into the game.

EDIT: In fact, thinking about it, there could be one general double-tap sensitivity slider for gamepad buttons and then the double-tap of each button could be assignable to the hotkey settings, thus doubling the amount of keybindings that players could set on their gamepad. Players who don't see the point wouldn't be obliged to enable that feature.

 

[Magic Man]

It doesn't matter whether you can see the point.

As a fellow user I think it's imperative that I see the point, otherwise, what's the point...

The developers can because they already included optional keymappings for 0%, 50%, 75% and 100% settings.

Exactly, you already have the option of going immediately to 100%

I'm just suggesting another way to access a feature that is already coded into the game.

Which, in this users opinion, is a bit pointless and a waste of developer resources. It takes a fraction of a second to immediately go to 100% simply by holding the trigger/axis down.

Actually, to implement what you suggest, i.e. a short period between the double taps for it to register as a double tap and not individual presses, then it would possibly even take longer to get to 100% than simply pulling the trigger full. I.e. pointless.

Doesn't actually make logical sense from a point of view of operation since these are analogue axis, not digital controls. I.e. you accelerate, you double click the trigger to immediately go to 100% - but you trigger is still somewhere in the middle of its travel. What happens now when you slacken off on the trigger, does your thrusts decrease from 100% or from the current trigger point? What if you want to go to 80%? Your thrust is 100% but your trigger axis is at 50% - does it interpret more travel as an increase or should you slacken off the trigger to decrease to 80% - what happens then when you slacken the trigger altogether, does it drop to 0% or something above?

It works fine as it is, the devs have far more important and worthwhile things to get on with.

 

[Rimsplitter]

People pay £250 for a Hands-On Throttle And Stick setup and you don't see the point of a cheap way to add more hands-on controls to a simple Xbox controller? OK, well it's a good job that you aren't the arbiter of anything.

Exactly, you already have the option of going immediately to 100%

Yes, because it's a good feature but you have to take your hand off the controller to do it. As I said, I already have the 75% setting mapped to the Back button on my controller. There aren't any more spare buttons to use. You seem to have missed the point that if there was no benefit in such a button then there wouldn't already be a keybinding for it.

It takes a fraction of a second to immediately go to 100% simply by holding the trigger/axis down...Actually, to implement what you suggest, i.e. a short period between the double taps for it to register as a double tap and not individual presses, then it would possibly even take longer to get to 100% than simply pulling the trigger full. I.e. pointless.

No, it takes about two seconds to move the throttle setting pin from 0% to 100%, obviously about one second to go from normal running speed to maximum. I just timed it. I can't time how long it takes to dab the button twice because it's too quick. I have my controller set to the standard response rate.

Doesn't actually make logical sense from a point of view of operation since these are analogue axis, not digital controls. I.e. you accelerate, you double click the trigger to immediately go to 100% - but you trigger is still somewhere in the middle of its travel. What happens now when you slacken off on the trigger, does your thrusts decrease from 100% or from the current trigger point? What if you want to go to 80%? Your thrust is 100% but your trigger axis is at 50% - does it interpret more travel as an increase or should you slacken off the trigger to decrease to 80% - what happens then when you slacken the trigger altogether, does it drop to 0% or something above?

This is just nonsense. The controls don't work that way. The amount of deflection that you apply to RB only affects the rate of change to the throttle control. When you release the button its return to zero deflection is ignored and the setting pin stays where you left it. You have to apply positive deflection to LB to reduce the throttle setting. RB is not directly linked to the throttle setting pin - you don't keep it pressed to maintain forward movement and your ship doesn't stop when you let go.

All of the buttons on the Xbox controller are analogue, not just the RB & LB buttons. Plenty of games use a double-tap to give a different response from a single, linear push. It's a trivial thing to implement. I'm also suggesting that having double-tap on all buttons would double the amount of keybindings that you could apply for any toggle option - not just throttle settings. It would be up to the player how many to use and on which buttons.

Finally, I am making a SUGGESTION for a future improvement in the SUGGESTION forum. I am not demanding that FD drop all other work and implement this change by close of business tomorrow. Even if I was, I certainly would not be submitting my change request to a self-appointed mouthpiece for approval.

 

[DocLooshkin]

I've got a full keyboard and a HOTAS with a ridiculous number of features. Xbox players have a controller with just three axes and ten buttons. It's a bit of a disparity. Levelling the playing field does not seem unreasonable. +1.

 

[Magic Man]

Okay, I'll hold my hands up and concede on this one. It doesn't cheapen the game in any way so that's good.
Make it so...

 

[Psycho Romeo]

Hold the phone. If double tap throttle was added, wouldn't this have a serious adverse affect on mouse wheel users?
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I have throttle forward set to my joystick primary, and throttle back set to the joystick secondary. I'm hitting those buttons like a madman. Would I then have to fight the controls? Or would I have to go into the options and set my interval to like 0.0 seconds, disabling the feature for me entirely?
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Would an accelerator aspect to the throttle mover be a more appropriate solution?
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This argument sounds to me like enabling double tapping the S key to make your character do a 180 in an FPS, when trackball users can make this movement easier than mouse users on standard mouse sensitivity.

 

[DocLooshkin]

If double tap throttle was added, wouldn't this have a serious adverse affect on mouse wheel users?

Depends how FD implements it, if they choose to do so. I can't see them doing it as a mandatory thing for everyone - that would be annoying enough to not even make it out of basic testing. The obvious route, to my mind, would be to have the option of assigning a double-tap of any input device to any control you wanted. It would only affect the controls you chose to assign it to, such as '100% throttle', which I think has its own entry in the options screen.

 

[Psycho Romeo]

Depends how FD implements it, if they choose to do so. I can't see them doing it as a mandatory thing for everyone - that would be annoying enough to not even make it out of basic testing. The obvious route, to my mind, would be to have the option of assigning a double-tap of any input device to any control you wanted. It would only affect the controls you chose to assign it to, such as '100% throttle', which I think has its own entry in the options screen.

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that double tap can be assigned as an input in much the same way that Shift+A can be assigned as an input?
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This I can get behind.

 

[Rimsplitter]

Yes, I am suggesting that the double-tap of any button should be just another assignable, modified input. Optionally assignable at the player's discretion through the controls option page. Plus I'm primarily talking about the Xbox controller.

The reason that I thought of it is that with the Xbox controller it takes time to move the throttle to max. Since you have to do that every time you go from normal space to SC, or from SC to jump systems, that's a lot of time adding up. A double-tap of the RB button (which has a built-in microswitch for doing exactly that) to go to 100% would be a major boon.

 

[Psycho Romeo]

Yes, I am suggesting that the double-tap of any button should be just another assignable, modified input. Optionally assignable at the player's discretion through the controls option page. Plus I'm primarily talking about the Xbox controller.

The reason that I thought of it is that with the Xbox controller it takes time to move the throttle to max. Since you have to do that every time you go from normal space to SC, or from SC to jump systems, that's a lot of time adding up. A double-tap of the RB button (which has a built-in microswitch for doing exactly that) to go to 100% would be a major boon.

Um, does it actually take longer? I don't think there's a ship in the game that can accelerate from -100% to 100% in less than two seconds. Is the issue that you have to hold the button down for two seconds?

 

[Magic Man]

Surely pulling the trigger to max is virtually instant and doesn't take any time at all - actually, the time to do a double tap probably takes longer.

Thing is, irrespective of how quick you set the target thrust to 100%, the time it takes to achieve maximum thrust is the same so I still don't see what you are going to get out of this.

Setting 100% by whatever method doesn't instantly give you 100% output, the thrust still spools up.

 

[Rimsplitter]

No, the issue is that there aren't enough buttons on the Xbox controller. Keybindings to set throttle to 0%, 50%, 75% and 100% already exist, they are coded into the game and you can access them from the keyboard. This isn't about whether those throttle settings are a necessary feature.

I'm suggesting a way to exapnd the number of hands-on controls that you can assign to Xbox controller buttons - whether it's for the throttle or any other toggle setting.

 

[Psycho Romeo]

I'm suggesting a way to exapnd the number of hands-on controls that you can assign to Xbox controller buttons - whether it's for the throttle or any other toggle setting.

You should edit the OP to reflect this change.