News Dove Enigma and the Enigma Expedition

[Goose4291]

So you either have a group of players picking on a cancer sufferer (if so please go back to EvE) or the use of a bug, now considered an exploit. As a community people would prefer the latter.

Yet if these people did do it the former way, by moving UA's 22,000 ly's in corrosive resistant cargo holds, then they shall just be reviled by the community instead of banned from it. (In an abstract concept as the perpetrators are unlikely to stand up and say "it was me"). On the balance of probabilities, it would say the use of the bug is more likely.

Citation required this was to 'pick on a cancer sufferer'

 

[Alec Turner]

what kind of person struggles and strains to defend this?

Hear hear, that's been puzzling me too. The same discussion has been popping up again and again - someone posts the story of what's happened, there's initial shock and disappointment at how anyone could be so horrible and then the defenders turn up and the whole thing escalates into another massive heated discussion. The internet can be a starnge and baffling place sometimes.

 

[Goose4291]

It's been specifically admitted to be so on reddit by the person who did it - all purposefully done to see how much upset it caused and to give them a laugh.

Link required. Everything I've seen from the Group involved was that it was done as part of their larger goal to UA-Bomb as much of Colonia as possible.

Particularly:

I'm going to straddle a reply both sides, i may or someone in the discord may have encouraged or gone ahead and ua bombed dove, i personally wasnt aware it was the end point of enigma , we had been hitting colonia in a general sense for emergent gameplay

That said all the group herd negativitiy should be looking at what they can ask fdev to do

Future events disable black markets at locations such as this
Finally put barnacles in at colonia and other nebula
CCN (and canonn have doen the right thing now) organise 1-2k meta alloys which is a couple of anaconda loads or even 3 type 9s and go and repair the station within 12 hours using hte neturon highway.
This expedition was emergent gameplay, so lets add a few more EG layers and make an event out of it.

Btw colonia has 50 odd systems, data can be sold in many of those locations, the game is there to be played, its only when something happens that the herd go into overdrive and most still wont do anything about fixing it, so if ya in the armchair not helping out, or out there engaging in the game like the enigma expedition, like the ua bombers, like those that engage the thargoids and so on then nothing will change or get better with the game"

The disgusting thing is the frantic defending of this at all costs - what kind of person struggles and strains to defend this?

But are they though? Look at peoples responses. They're saying it's a shame, it wasn't going to affect the end goal and as UA bombing is a legitimate gameplay choice, you can't really fault them. And one that could be fixed using in-game mechanics without going full SJW on the Frontier Community Management team like people were, making ridiculous declarations that this was done to deliberately 'grief' a cancer victim, wishing cancer on the perpetrators, and similar abuse at people who were trying to help fix the issue using ingame mechanics.

If you want to pretend that we're defending the harassment of Cancer Patients, to fill your agenda, carry on. I'm sure the frothing masses of Mobius players, Soloists and everyone else who tried to claim SDC and the ilk was behind it initially will spam you with reputation points and "You tell 'em Steve Dave" comments. For the rest of us, we'll just shake our heads slowly.

 

[frostypaw]

Citation required this was to 'pick on a cancer sufferer'

Bit hard now https://www.reddit.com/user/b0rys - account and all posts deleted.

Many people have seen and read this - ask DoveEnigma if you really insist on keeping defending this and trying to pretend it didn't happen. I'll let you tell him to his face that you think this is all just fake and "SJW" stuff - good luck with that but at least you'll have to face what you're doing.

Stop making out like this is any agenda. Nobody wished cancer on anyone - Dove got trolled and said a couple of nasty things which he has apologised for.

 

[Stigbob]

But are they though? Look at peoples responses. They're saying it's a shame, it wasn't going to affect the end goal and as UA bombing is a legitimate gameplay choice, you can't really fault them. And one that could be fixed using in-game mechanics without going full SJW on the Frontier Community Management team like people were, making ridiculous declarations that this was done to deliberately 'grief' a cancer victim, wishing cancer on the perpetrators, and similar abuse at people who were trying to help fix the issue using ingame mechanics.

If you want to pretend that we're defending the harassment of Cancer Patients, to fill your agenda, carry on. I'm sure the frothing masses of Mobius players, Soloists and everyone else who tried to claim SDC and the ilk was behind it initially will spam you with reputation points and "You tell 'em Steve Dave" comments. For the rest of us, we'll just shake our heads slowly.

It's a bit like ambulances being able to break the speed limit, most people just get that sometimes people are given special treatment for good reasons. When people see that fail to happen they can get understandably cross about it, some of them will go too far.

None of the games normal rules matter in the slightest here.

 

[damon8r351]

I'm sure the frothing masses of Mobius players, Soloists...

Full time Mobius session member and part-time Soloist here.

I dropped a war I was participating in between two minor factions over a high population system to fly out to Colonia for what would've been my first time ever to help out. I ended up stopping at Amundsen Terminal and bringing Meta-Alloy instead to T Tauri once it was determined the megaship was in the clear. You don't need to be a Mobian or Soloist to froth at the mouth about something.

 

[Old Duck]

Hear hear, that's been puzzling me too. The same discussion has been popping up again and again - someone posts the story of what's happened, there's initial shock and disappointment at how anyone could be so horrible and then the defenders turn up and the whole thing escalates into another massive heated discussion. The internet can be a starnge and baffling place sometimes.

It's not quite so black and white. There are people with pitchforks demanding that Frontier do X, Y, and Z, and leveling some pretty nasty assertions against Frontier for "letting this happen". By attempting to turn Frontier into the monster here, they risk the extinction of any future altruism on Frontier's part toward the community. Simply put, "This is why we can't have nice things."

 

[rrobes]

Kudos to the pilots and FD for the resolution of the issue, the ship is now "safe" from further UA bombs per Galnet.

 

[Goose4291]

Bit hard now https://www.reddit.com/user/b0rys - account and all posts deleted.

So you're evidence this was done deliberately to attack a cancer victim is a now-defunct reddit account and saying "trust me guv'nor"?

Many people have seen and read this - ask DoveEnigma if you really insist on keeping defending this and trying to pretend it didn't happen. I'll let you tell him to his face that you think this is all just fake and "SJW" stuff - good luck with that but at least you'll have to face what you're doing.

At what point did I say it didn't happen?

What I said was the motive behind it could be entirely unconnected, which it seems to be.
What I said was it didn't affect his endgoal, which was the case.
What I said was that the way to fix it was by using ingame mechanics, which it was.
What I said was that there was no need to react the way community has, particularly to the dev team. Those posts (now removed) demanding Paige and Zac's jobs were ridiculous, as were the ones wishing similar diseases inflicted on the perpetrators or anyone who didn't agree with the party line that "this was bad, we need a godmod"

Stop making out like this is any agenda. Nobody wished cancer on anyone - Dove got trolled and said a couple of nasty things which he has apologised for.
Sorry, but I'm not buying it. Particularly when the group responsible made their reasons clear numerous times and those posts are up for all to see.

The agenda was clear, godmod the station fix, punish the perpetrators. Use Social Justice Warrior excuses (vague allusions to illness and children) to validate these. Try to extend these punishments to SDC (because somehow, they were involved even though it is completely against their modus operandi) or anyone who's even considered UA bombing a legitimate gameplay choice.

Full time Mobius session member and part-time Soloist here.

I dropped a war I was participating in between two minor factions over a high population system to fly out to Colonia for what would've been my first time ever to help out. I ended up stopping at Amundsen Terminal and bringing Meta-Alloy instead to T Tauri once it was determined the megaship was in the clear. You don't need to be a Mobian or Soloist to froth at the mouth about something.

And props to you for doing that .

 

[Goose4291]

It's not quite so black and white. There are people with pitchforks demanding that Frontier do X, Y, and Z, and leveling some pretty nasty assertions against Frontier for "letting this happen". By attempting to turn Frontier into the monster here, they risk the extinction of any future altruism on Frontier's part toward the community. Simply put, "This is why we can't have nice things."

Exactly.

 

[Bryan K]

Would this be the same instance flipping exploit they know about, and people used to harvest MA's to fix the station?

Instance-flipping for MAs? No, I don’t think so. I was one of the last to set out with MAs in tow, and Darnielle’s progress still had over 1000 when I left. Please find a more viable strawman next time.

 

[frostypaw]

So you're evidence this was done deliberately to attack a cancer victim is a now-defunct reddit account and saying "trust me guv'nor"?

*facepalm*

No Goose. I'm showing you that so you can see the reason why I can't provide you with the link you've requested.

What I said was the motive behind it could be entirely unconnected, which it seems to be.What I said was it didn't affect his endgoal, which was the case.

The motive is known and connected, you just don't want to listen because it ruins your diatribe about how bad the people who disagree with you are.

I have no idea what emotional disconnect there is inside you that just because you've decided that them still being able to dock is all that matters you think that should dictate what matters about it to others. This is not how it works at all.

Those posts (now removed) demanding Paige and Zac's jobs were ridiculous, as were the ones wishing similar diseases inflicted on the perpetrators or anyone who didn't agree with the party line that "this was bad, we need a godmod"

You should probably direct your issues with those things to the people who said those things rather than trying to use a few extreme moments to dismiss the entire issue - this also is not how things work at all. If you tried instead asking whether the people that you are talking to here support those posts it might work better as you'll find out they don't.

In general your position seems to be one based on prejudice and assumptions. May I suggest you try finding things out rather than guessing then we can avoid this argument entirely.

 

[Goose4291]

In general your position seems to be one based on prejudice and assumptions. May I suggest you try finding things out rather than guessing then we can avoid this argument entirely.

If that's the case, when I can cite actual posts that prove my position, what does that make yours?

And again, please show where I made it clear I'm in favour of trolling/harrasing people with terminal cancer.

 

[frostypaw]

If that's the case, when I can cite actual posts that prove my position, what does that make yours?

Goose it doesn't matter whether someone else said that - take that up with them. You can't dismiss the whole of the topic and everyone else's points on that basis. That's not how it works anywhere in life is it. You just dismiss that idiot.

And again, please show where I made it clear I'm in favour of trolling/harrasing people with terminal cancer.

I don't believe I've ever claimed such a thing, as such there is no way I can or will do so.

 

[Manticore]

It's not quite so black and white. There are people with pitchforks demanding that Frontier do X, Y, and Z, and leveling some pretty nasty assertions against Frontier for "letting this happen". By attempting to turn Frontier into the monster here, they risk the extinction of any future altruism on Frontier's part toward the community. Simply put, "This is why we can't have nice things."

I thought it was pretty clear that Frontier are not responsible for the actions of gamers.

I'm sure 99% of the gamers who play Elite are decent people. It's the 1% who have no common decency or moral compass who would do this; attempt to ruin the game for others and bring FD into public disrepute (again).

How is that FD's fault?

The motive is known and connected, you just don't want to listen because it ruins your diatribe about how bad the people who disagree with you are.

I have no idea what emotional disconnect there is inside you that just because you've decided that them still being able to dock is all that matters you think that should dictate what matters about it to others.

You have just described the mechanics of fascism in your reply.

 

[Legacy_LuckyLuke]

I'm currently underway to Colonia in my Cutter with 720 units of meta alloys. Still a few hours out from arrival - are they still required?

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I'm currently underway to Colonia in my Cutter with 720 units of meta alloys. Still a few hours out from arrival - are they still required?

Galnet says they're not required at the Dove Enigma to keep it safe from UA interference as a massive surplus has already been delivered - you could deliver them anyway to reinforce it even further against a hypothetical future attempt, or you could deliver them to one of the other stations in the region with a black market [1] to make them harder to shut down in the first place, or you could take them all the way back to the Sol bubble to one of the other four stations on the brink of closure.

[1] The Pit, The Bone Yard and Jaques Station have also already had UA damage repaired and probably have more than enough already, but there are 35 other stations in the region with black markets, 8 of which have landing pads suitable for your Cutter - https://cdb.sotl.org.uk/stations#"black market" "large pad"

 

[KillerDM]

Talk like this does not help your position and it's not a good look. You should be embarrassed.

Show us any evidence that Dove Enigma was targeted deliberately to taunt a specific person, rather than being an incidental target of an ongoing and pre-existing campaign of UA bombing in the Colonia region. Show me how the UA bombing has any direct impact on the Enigma Expedition, or jeopardizes that project in any way. Do either of those two things and I'll pick up a pitchfork and join you.

Until then, I'm going to call out this kind of manipulative concern-trolling as the disgusting behavior that it is.

I was speaking to the fallout after the fact.

There is no evidence, that I have seen, that has shown that this was definitively NOT an attack on the expedition (a minor thumb in the face, really, at best).

If you bothered to go back and read all the channels/posts/threads on the incident, you would have seen the evidence that this had a very direct impact on the CMDR DoveEnigma13.

I am not asking for pitchforks. I never asked that others raise a pitchfork. I have not raised a pitchfork myself. Nor will I raise a pitchfork.

I just ask that people realize this is a very ill person that is trying to be with his daughter doing something they both enjoy, together, before he dies.

Those that are attacking this father (beyond the UA-bombing online) should consider that the guy is just trying to get a few moments of enjoyable father-daughter time before he dies.

I see that he posted a statement about 9 hours ago expressing that after nearly quitting, he has seen an overwhelming support of the community. So, instead of focusing on the small negatives, he's been able to continue with the game knowing the majority of people are supporting him.

It really is very simple - maybe if people tempered their actions and statements with the mind that this isn't really about whether the UA-bombing was "fair", "targeted", or "the Wish of Santa", they would be able to get past all the hard feelings. CMDR Dove Enigma obviously has done so, and there really isn't a better way for this all to have turned out considering the incident and then all the fallout from the said incident.

Now that I have responded to your allegations, I will abide by any moderator here that says I am guilty of your accusation of trolling.

 

[Gortron]

I'm impressed this has resolved itself due to the community response in game. Like many people I was disgusted that people could think it was OK to try and wreck such an event. Just because the game mechanics allow people to do something doesn't mean it is acceptable behaviour. It is possible to rob and murder old folk IRL but it completely unacceptable behaviour. Taking the mickey out of people with severe disabilities falls into the same category, you can physically do it but it is amoral.

For some reason there is a part of society that thinks that because something is on the internet they can be has horrible as they like about anything they like and they should be absolved of all repercussions. Ultimately, someone that is dying asked FDEV to do something nice for him, which they did and someone or a group of people had to go and ruin it. The mechanics by which they did it are unimportant and FDEV putting a Black Market in it are unimportant; what is important is the lack of humanity displayed by the person or person(s) that organised it. I don't hate them but there is a line of human decency and it was overstepped.... a fair bit.

 

[macedk]

Let's get back on topic for this journey, a kink in the road has been straightened.

Give the mission it's prober respect and love guys.

Now if FD want to make this epic and for future mission like this, make sure we can be more than 16 cmdr's in a instance. Idea is not only does the mission reach the goal but a hole fleet of cmdr's to greet them, imagine the sight.

Might not be possible atm but it should be

But again let's concentrate on the mission not the kink in the road please.

God speed Brandon Keith with you in spirit mate.

Macedk