Down with the RNG. More gameplay content.

[Crimson Kaim]

Since I have time when searching for USSs ... or High Garde Emissions ... I will write another post about how to improve the most important part of any game .. and especially in Elite, GAMEPLAY is terrible sometimes.

What do I need? Core Dynamic Composites and Imperial Shieldings. How? Missions ... naaaah. Do I look like I wanna put effort in this? USSs. So I am looking for High Grade Emissions. But I am not able to do this myself. Instead, I leave my RNGineer Conda at ~ 10% throttle and wait for them to spawn as the 0% throttle doesn't spawn as many anymore. As you can probably tell, this is plain boring and as a really impatient person I look to entertain myself elsewhere ... for example by writing a post on said topic.

Once again, like it or not, EVE does it better. Scanning for signal sources could be done with our discovery scanners. I can scan the surface of a planet for materials and such but not the space for materials? Awww. Also. I am using the external view and write another sentence as my Anaconda is doing a 180° turn as I have vershot the USS once again. For those who doesn't know: Your ship keeps turnign while you can do smth else. Precious time, precious seconds.
Anyhow. I am looking for HGEs and I can't really find the myself. I have to wait until the RNG delivers them.

Gosh, Degraded Emissions all the time ... Or Combat Aftermath.

So how could it work? Since we have limpets ... let us allow to use limpets as advanced scanners. Drop from supercruise and invent a minigame that allows us to search for specific types of USSs ... or mission specific locations. This could also provide some data meanwhile, especially this data we only get from wake scanning. WHO THE FRAMESHIFT DRIVE SCANS WAKE LIKE EVER?!
So after you drop out. Deploy 3-4 limpets which then allign with some vector which increases your scanning range by the amount of limpets you have deployed. When looking in that direction, you scan for the specific type(s) of USSs in a 5-10 degree angle/cone. Once you have found what you were looking for (and you will find it the longer you scan a certain direction ... could work like the SRV scanner with materials. Also, ensure that the targetted type of USSs is always present so there is a 0% chance of not finding it unless you don't scan that direction or simply ignore it.), it will be fixed in your nav-panel and you can enter said USSs without the stupid RNG or the lazyness of that feature \o/.


Easy, no? Do it, do it in 2.3 or better: Do it now!


2.3 Multicrew changelog:

- Added system environment scanner

 

[askavir]

I would rather see the whole random spawns completely removed.

Using the discovery scanner should show all the USSs in the system. Those USSs would remain there until you leave the system or alternatively until X time has passed.

That way you could investigate the ones you may be interested in. And makes more sense that having USSs popping around us randomly, while we pretend to be searching for something.

Same for planetary POIs, using the detailed surface scanner should display the planetary POIs, or alternatively the planetary POIs on the visible surface of the planet relative to your ship. Like before, this would enable us to investigate whichever POIs we would find interesting or promising, instead of flying around randomly pretending to be searching for something, until random POIs pop up.

 

[Blackcompany]

Don't know whether this particular mechanic is the solution, but yes, Elite BADLY needs actual, interactive game play.

It's not 1984 any longer. It's time to move past those technical limitations and make something befitting of this century.

 

[Chris Simon]

I don't agree with your reasoning. You consciously omitted two "content-heavy" (well, at least content-heavier in terms of entertainment) activities to acquire the composites and shielding - combat and missions - and went for the most boring one.
That is not the way to make an argument.

However, with the whole point, I very much agree. USS hunting (for whatever reason) is boring. That may not be a bad thing, altogether, there are, after all, many boring things in Elite a certain group of people enjoys. Prefers, even. Like mining.
But the USS mechanic in particular really makes the RNG to stick out. And that is bad. I don't mind things being random. Random can be fun. But when things are random in your face like this, it's always annoying.

So yeah, scanning mechanic? I'm all for it.
In fact we could do with couple new scanners.
Detailed surface scanner should have deep-penetrating active mode that would reveal particularly rich mineral areas from orbit, KWS should have the option to be linked to local security network, so the cops would know that the ship you're shooting is wanted somewhere and you are NOT committing a senseless murder.
I have many ideas. Sadly, I'm not David, nor am I Sandro.

 

[soma]

Agreed OP. Although USS have been slightly improved since launch (Anyone still remember when we had no idea at all what was inside a USS? We had to drop into the USS to find out). But USS / POIs are still one of the weakest parts of the game. The RNG nature just makes them terrible.

For USS scanning, why not make the USS persistent and have it last for 10 minutes or so? (A distress call is there for a certain amount of time, then disappears). Give us a way to detect these USS from supercruise (eg. with a new scanning minigame). I still remember the "Seeking Luxuries" points in Beta Sculptoriis. People actually congregated there because they were persistent hotspots. It lead to interesting gameplay. I liked that, it made the game seem more alive.

For planet scanning .. and I never thought I would say this... but I'd honestly be overjoyed just to get a stupid little minigame similar to the one we had in Mass Effect 2: https://youtu.be/cpB2RkrelQE?t=19s

 

[Crash1099]

I do not even look for uss anymore. The fun one i had was a capital ship fighting off pirates then another one jumps in owned by the pirates fighting the other one. Tried to help but 5 ships jumped me and i had to jump away. That was the only fun uss i had.

 

[DoctorDanny]

I used to think back in the Beta days that USSs would be a placeholder until the real gameplay mechanics were finished.
Two years later and I'm still waiting (well, actually I'm playing other games).

 

[Jimmysal]

Doesn't the type of USS you get depend on the system size, composition, and state? Isn't there a thread about that that clearly explains where to find things? Or am I crazy lucky and was able to sort modular terminals, firmware, chemical widgets, and other things economically totally by some happenstance.

No, I listened well to the lessons of others like biohazard15 and read his thread "Unidentified Signal Sources (USS): A Complete Guide"! What a guy! Give him some rep! He even did it again in Russian!

I believe that the types of materials and commodities given out as mission rewards are also infuenced by system type, population, and state. I'd pay attention to that as well and refocus my efforts before I made my fellow CMDR's eyes bleed with this thread again.

 

[Blackcompany]

I used to think back in the Beta days that USSs would be a placeholder until the real gameplay mechanics were finished.
Two years later and I'm still waiting (well, actually I'm playing other games).

That's about the way I feel. Come back now and then to fly my ship some. One, two days, the urge passes and I go back to games with fewer loading screens and more game play.

 

[xondk]

Don't know whether this particular mechanic is the solution, but yes, Elite BADLY needs actual, interactive game play.

It's not 1984 any longer. It's time to move past those technical limitations and make something befitting of this century.

what IS "Actual interactive game play" ? just asking because these kinds of sentences are tossed around a lot without getting backed up, just another buzzword? what IS it?

As for it being technical limitations, no, 'rng' is the basis of most any loot based game, main difference is here you SEE possible rolls, in other games you do not, but they are functionally the same. Killing a boss for loot? same deal. Only you only see the result not the 'possible' results, and I'd think if people did we'd see same complaints.

Elite is being too honest?

 

[Faded Glory]

Doesn't the type of USS you get depend on the system size, composition, and state? Isn't there a thread about that that clearly explains where to find things? Or am I crazy lucky and was able to sort modular terminals, firmware, chemical widgets, and other things economically totally by some happenstance.

No, I listened well to the lessons of others like biohazard15 and read his thread "Unidentified Signal Sources (USS): A Complete Guide"! What a guy! Give him some rep! He even did it again in Russian!

I believe that the types of materials and commodities given out as mission rewards are also infuenced by system type, population, and state. I'd pay attention to that as well and refocus my efforts before I made my fellow CMDR's eyes bleed with this thread again.

Yes, it's quite true that certain USS will only spawn (or be more likely to spawn) in particular systems, or systems in a particular state.

But that's kind of missing the point of the OP, I think. The fact that you know where to go to find a particular USS (even mission targets, which will spawn in the vicinity of a particular planet), doesn't alter the fact that when you get to the appropriate location, the only thing you can do is wait for the correct USS to spawn, and I think waiting is the problem.

I suspect it would be much better if you had to (were able to) search for something, rather than wait for it to magically and randomly spawn...

 

[Blackcompany]

what IS "Actual interactive game play" ? just asking because these kinds of sentences are tossed around a lot without getting backed up, just another buzzword? what IS it?

As for it being technical limitations, no, 'rng' is the basis of most any loot based game, main difference is here you SEE possible rolls, in other games you do not, but they are functionally the same. Killing a boss for loot? same deal. Only you only see the result not the 'possible' results, and I'd think if people did we'd see same complaints.

Elite is being too honest?

The Problem is that Elite isn't BEING anything. The game is 90℅ watching, 10℅ doing, unless you are actually engaged in combat.

We can't interact with anything. Not people. Not locations. Not things. We can't actively salvage. Just open the cargo scoop, launch a limpet, and (surprise) wait for the game to do it for you.

We can't actually Explore. Witcher 3, Skyrim, even NMS, feature Exploration. This game, you fly around and (surprise, again) wait for the game to tell YOU when you've found Something.

The whole thing is so soulless. Just a pure spreadsheet grind, layered on top of another one. Bare minimum of interactive elements. More spectating than playing, outside of combat.

Consider this: outside of combat, navigation of the game menus is more complex and involved...Than flying the ship. That seem reasonable?

 

[askavir]

I suspect it would be much better if you had to (were able to) search for something, rather than wait for it to magically and randomly spawn...

This is the real issue.

There is no searching neither in USSs nor planetary POIs or planetary materials. To be able to search for something, that something must actually be there in the first place.

We never actually search for anything. Stuff is just randomly created around us while we lunge our ships or SRVs in random directions.


So might as well let scanners, discovery and surface scanner, be able to pinpoint USSs, planetary POIs and material rich regions. At least there would be a little actual gameplay involved (using scanners, analyzing results and deciding what to pursue), not just thumb twiddling until RNG makes things pop up while we move in random directions.

 

[Jezzah]

I would rather see the whole random spawns completely removed.

Using the discovery scanner should show all the USSs in the system. Those USSs would remain there until you leave the system or alternatively until X time has passed.

That way you could investigate the ones you may be interested in. And makes more sense that having USSs popping around us randomly, while we pretend to be searching for something.

Same for planetary POIs, using the detailed surface scanner should display the planetary POIs, or alternatively the planetary POIs on the visible surface of the planet relative to your ship. Like before, this would enable us to investigate whichever POIs we would find interesting or promising, instead of flying around randomly pretending to be searching for something, until random POIs pop up.

Utterly agree here. Utterly completely. I suppose there are good reasons why they have overly persisted with the current irritating mechanic for exploration but damn it's over due for a serious rework.

 

[timbero]

2.3 Multicrew changelog:

- Long range surface scanner now available on ships (10 km reach).
- You can now do planetary mining from your ships.
- Collector drones now capable of picking up materials on planets.

 

[Achilles7]

It would be nice to scan a planet's surface & find a huge deposit of some specific rare material which you can bookmark & visit anytime...rather than check the system map to find you have 0.1% chance of finding it - anyway, you jump in your SRV with boyish optimism (nearly mentioned a player then..but no advisory warning for me this time )..

> randomly drive around listening out for a scratching/grating sound (nice subtle dig at the broken scanner there!); glass half full? you are able to concentrate fully on where you are going / glass half empty? THE SCANNER IS EFFED!
> periodically go back to the ship to repair the SRV as space madness makes you drive over mountain ranges at full throttle..
> a necessary trip to a station to refuel the SRV (despite having resources in the ship to mend the structural integrity of it, indeed virtually rebuild it..I keep forgetting to fill up a couple of Jerry cans - D'oh!!)
> after 2 or so hours, you have a whopping 6 of your prized material! WOO-HOO! They are the very fellows for me & off to appropriate engineer..
> Sorry son, looks like you're the man who put it all on red & it came up black! Maybe try again tomorrow! [mad]

What an excellent gaming session that was!

 

[DocPossible]

It would be nice to scan a planet's surface & find a huge deposit of some specific rare material which you can bookmark & visit anytime...rather than check the system map to find you have 0.1% chance of finding it - anyway, you jump in your SRV with boyish optimism (nearly mentioned a player then..but no advisory warning for me this time )..

> randomly drive around listening out for a scratching/grating sound (nice subtle dig at the broken scanner there!); glass half full? you are able to concentrate fully on where you are going / glass half empty? THE SCANNER IS EFFED!
> periodically go back to the ship to repair the SRV as space madness makes you drive over mountain ranges at full throttle..
> a necessary trip to a station to refuel the SRV (despite having resources in the ship to mend the structural integrity of it, indeed virtually rebuild it..I keep forgetting to fill up a couple of Jerry cans - D'oh!!)
> after 2 or so hours, you have a whopping 6 of your prized material! WOO-HOO! They are the very fellows for me & off to appropriate engineer..
> Sorry son, looks like you're the man who put it all on red & it came up black! Maybe try again tomorrow! [mad]Yoi

What an excellent gaming session that was!

Did you seriously land on a planet with 0.1% of what you were looking for? Use this to find somewhere more promising next time : https://eddb.io/body

Also, you can refuel and repair the SRV with synthesis - it only needs common mats so it's not hard.

 

[Coik]

I certainty wouldn't mind seeing RNG tweaked down a bit, in a lot of aspects. I was carrying around at least two levels of Federal rank increase for a while before I actually got a mission that was within my capabilities to spawn (sorry Zach, don't have 60 tons of cargo space just yet). Now granted I generally wasn't doing the mode switch method to repopulate the boards, but something like that I think would benefit from having a more planned out progression of increasing amount of resources being necessary to complete them.

For planet scanning .. and I never thought I would say this... but I'd honestly be overjoyed just to get a stupid little minigame similar to the one we had in Mass Effect 2: https://youtu.be/cpB2RkrelQE?t=19s

Only if we can recycle one of my favorite bits of that, whether officially in game or through ASTRA or something.

*pfffunt*
EDI: "Really, Commander?"
*pfffunt*
EDI: "*sighs* Probing Uranus."

 

[Shackram]

I enjoyed the system scanning minigame in EVE (and the hacking one too), USS could be more interesting and rewarding if finding them was more involved.

 

[Chris Simon]

2.3 Multicrew changelog:

- Long range surface scanner now available on ships (10 km reach).
- You can now do planetary mining from your ships.
- Collector drones now capable of picking up materials on planets.

Now, wouldn't that be grand...