Drones coming for powerplay

Okay so for everyone bemoaning the idea of disposable drones, would you be happy with any of the following situations:

  • You fly out of range of your drone, causing you to lose it permanently and require going back to a station to purchase a new (and no doubt expensive) one
  • You bump in to your drone whilst it is trying to return to you, causing you to lose it permanently and require going back to a station to purchase a new (and no doubt expensive) one
  • A competing miner shoots your drone, causing you to lose it permanently and require going back to a station to purchase a new (and no doubt expensive) one
  • An AI confusion causes the drone to bump in to an asteroid, causing you to lose it permanently and require going back to a station to purchase a new (and no doubt expensive) one
  • In its eagerness the drone flies in to the path of your mining laser to grab a newly-minted piece of ore, causing you to lose it permanently and require going back to a station to purchase a new (and no doubt expensive) one
  • A griefer rams your drone, causing you to lose it permanently and require going back to a station to purchase a new (and no doubt expensive) one

And I'm sure there are many more possibilities when you have a small unshielded and unarmed piece of metal floating about in space.

Perhaps, just perhaps, FD have looked at the idea of having permanent drones Vs disposable drones and decided that the latter is the better solution. Personally I couldn't care less but can see that disposable drones have a lot of potential benefits that would require a lot of time and effort to replicate with permanent drones and frankly I don't see any actual downsides outside of peoples' aversion to a disposable item.
 
Why do you keep coming out with this rubbish? No one is talking about automating mining! All that drones will do is speed up the recovery of the fragments. They are not going to do the mining so please read before you go off on another tangent.

Loon

Apologize for offending you. My understanding of mining is shoot a rock and thencollect the fragments. As I have practiced it since gamma, all of the mining was in the setup and collection of the fragments. If a drone does that then it is automating what is clearly one of the least liked aspects of mining.

But of course you may well be right and I sm willing Rostand corrected.
 
Okay so for everyone bemoaning the idea of disposable drones, would you be happy with any of the following situations:

  • You fly out of range of your drone, causing you to lose it permanently and require going back to a station to purchase a new (and no doubt expensive) one
  • You bump in to your drone whilst it is trying to return to you, causing you to lose it permanently and require going back to a station to purchase a new (and no doubt expensive) one
  • A competing miner shoots your drone, causing you to lose it permanently and require going back to a station to purchase a new (and no doubt expensive) one
  • An AI confusion causes the drone to bump in to an asteroid, causing you to lose it permanently and require going back to a station to purchase a new (and no doubt expensive) one
  • In its eagerness the drone flies in to the path of your mining laser to grab a newly-minted piece of ore, causing you to lose it permanently and require going back to a station to purchase a new (and no doubt expensive) one
  • A griefer rams your drone, causing you to lose it permanently and require going back to a station to purchase a new (and no doubt expensive) one

And I'm sure there are many more possibilities when you have a small unshielded and unarmed piece of metal floating about in space.

Perhaps, just perhaps, FD have looked at the idea of having permanent drones Vs disposable drones and decided that the latter is the better solution. Personally I couldn't care less but can see that disposable drones have a lot of potential benefits that would require a lot of time and effort to replicate with permanent drones and frankly I don't see any actual downsides outside of peoples' aversion to a disposable item.

1: Yes although it would be nice if it started working when I returned into its range or if the drone itself kept inside the range
2: Yes
3: Yes but legal system should cover such events (Assault on property)
4: Yes but this hopefully will not happen too much
5: Yes
6: Yes but legal system should cover such events (Assault on property/Careless handling)

I think that it's pretty nonsensical to have a disposable drone, and I do not see how it would make sense, not from a pure gameplay standpoint and not from a lore/technical/technological standpoint.
I do not see any benefits in disposable drones. Do you?
 
If it's a utility, what sort of numbers for ammo are we talking about? Not much point if the ammo count is only 3 or 4, that won't last 5 minutes mining, you're going to need several hundred to make it worthwhile for miners.

If the drones take up cargo space, what sort of time frame before they SD are we talking about? No real advantage if it won't fill the space it took up before SD. Also, if they collect everything within the radius before they run out of time, will they continue to scan the area for new targets to collect and keep on collecting new targets until their timer expires?

Finally, the cost. I take it they are going to be extremely cheap since they are a one-shot item and not re-usable. If they cost 1000 per shot, it's going to make mining any cheap commodities like Aluminium pretty pointless.

Personally, I would much rather have had re-usable drones, even if they were pretty expensive and slow. They would eventually pay for themselves and then you're working on profit. This system of one shot drones is really stupid IMHO, it reduces the profit margin of anyone mining to the point where mining still isn't profitable enough to be a worthwhile pursuit.
 
We already have disposable drones for piracy (hatch breakers).
I'd be quite happy to fit a drone control rig to my my deep space mining barge, and fill up with empty drones before heading off to mine
 
Okay so for everyone bemoaning the idea of disposable drones, would you be happy with any of the following situations:

  • You fly out of range of your drone, causing you to lose it permanently and require going back to a station to purchase a new (and no doubt expensive) one
  • You bump in to your drone whilst it is trying to return to you, causing you to lose it permanently and require going back to a station to purchase a new (and no doubt expensive) one
  • A competing miner shoots your drone, causing you to lose it permanently and require going back to a station to purchase a new (and no doubt expensive) one
  • An AI confusion causes the drone to bump in to an asteroid, causing you to lose it permanently and require going back to a station to purchase a new (and no doubt expensive) one
  • In its eagerness the drone flies in to the path of your mining laser to grab a newly-minted piece of ore, causing you to lose it permanently and require going back to a station to purchase a new (and no doubt expensive) one
  • A griefer rams your drone, causing you to lose it permanently and require going back to a station to purchase a new (and no doubt expensive) one

And I'm sure there are many more possibilities when you have a small unshielded and unarmed piece of metal floating about in space.

Perhaps, just perhaps, FD have looked at the idea of having permanent drones Vs disposable drones and decided that the latter is the better solution. Personally I couldn't care less but can see that disposable drones have a lot of potential benefits that would require a lot of time and effort to replicate with permanent drones and frankly I don't see any actual downsides outside of peoples' aversion to a disposable item.
What's stopping any of that from happening to the disposable ones? The reusable ones could trade speed for shields or something. Imagination works both ways.
 
4 fragments of palladium rich = 1t = 19000 ish

1 usable drone at let's say plasma accelerator ammo price = 200

That's still 18900 profit
 
I would just like to be able to scoop at about 100 km/h instead of about <20.

I can slam them into the windscreen just fine at almost any speed but they never seem to line up with that dinky little scoop.

How would scooping at 5 times the speed help you?

You do use the scooping scanner don't you?
 
What's stopping any of that from happening to the disposable ones? The reusable ones could trade speed for shields or something. Imagination works both ways.

Nothing, but the consequence of losing an individual drone would be much lower if you had another couple of hundred in the hold.
 
Apologize for offending you. My understanding of mining is shoot a rock and thencollect the fragments. As I have practiced it since gamma, all of the mining was in the setup and collection of the fragments. If a drone does that then it is automating what is clearly one of the least liked aspects of mining.

But of course you may well be right and I sm willing Rostand corrected.

As shooting a rock and collecting the fragments just does not stack in the money making stakes something need to be done to speed up the process. Lets face it we do not load up cargo ourselfs do we?
My main grip against your post was not the mineing but you stupid comments about drones for other things. It had nothing to do with this thread and was just just stupid scaremongering.
Loon
 
1: Yes although it would be nice if it started working when I returned into its range or if the drone itself kept inside the range
2: Yes
3: Yes but legal system should cover such events (Assault on property)
4: Yes but this hopefully will not happen too much
5: Yes
6: Yes but legal system should cover such events (Assault on property/Careless handling)

Well ramming is legal against ships so can't see it being illegal against drones. And friendly fire rules would probably need to be relaxed completely against drones because they will be so weak. As for the rest, I suspect (though of course cannot prove) that you might be in the minority as each of these would be a major inconvenience for miners akin to the inconvenience that bounty hunters have with friendly fire incidents, and they're hardly quiet about that.

I think that it's pretty nonsensical to have a disposable drone, and I do not see how it would make sense, not from a pure gameplay standpoint and not from a lore/technical/technological standpoint.
I do not see any benefits in disposable drones. Do you?

Nonsensical is quite a strong word. I don't see why it might not be cheaper to have a sealed-unit disposable drone with limited lifespan than a reusable drone that can be repaired; we have enough examples of this with technology in real life, and cargo canisters decay when exposed to space so why not drones?

And yes, I do believe that the above situations I raised are areas where disposable drones offer a benefit over reusable drones.
 
My kneejerk reaction to the information Frontier has provided so far is: uh, this doesn't sound like the best they could do. I'd have to see it in action before passing final judgement, but color me skeptical at this point.

A cargo tractor is where it's at, in my opinion. It takes up an internal slot. Line up the scoop with the cargo like we already do, and fire. Limited range, high power use and heat generation. Maybe smaller ships can only use it long enough to get the fragment moving and then they let the momentum bring it in while larger ships can tractor it all the way in for faster collection. Maybe better tractors have longer ranges, or can guide the cargo more allowing collection at greater angles off of straight on.

"But it's not canon!" So what? New things get invented all the time. Mr. Braben and Frontier has the power to make it canon.
 
I would assume the consumable nature of the drones is to add a decision element to the game. If the drones were not consumed they would become a "no brainer" and become essential rather than a choice.

If life followed that logic, everybody would exclusively still use sword fighting instead of guns. :)

Logically, cargo-scooping should be a viable skill in something small, agile and fast (although, considering even a Sidewinder is the size of a house and would dwarf the space shuttles we have now, it could be said we have yet to have a 'small' craft in the game). But when you get into the range of medium or, especially, large ships, it becomes nonsensical for them to be wasting fuel and fighting against all that inertia, just for the sake of tiny pieces of cargo. The space-going equivalent of a one-man submersible would be fine zipping around and collecting stuff, but can you imagine a massive nuclear-powered hunter-killer doing likewise? No. It's the same here, if you're comparing, say, a Hauler/Adder against a Type-9 or Anaconda. Imagine the Titanic trying to steer around a fleet of ice bergs... Exactly. :)

Reusable drones make sense because they're a practical automated asset.

Anything less? Effectively forces people to treat every type of ship essentially the same, except just keeping in mind they have the statistics shifted around. Massive transports should have automated advantages, such as collection drones, because they need that to counter the massive problems of size and mass. Much smaller ships wouldn't, which means drones aren't cost-effective for them, because they could simply grab ahold of cargo in the same amount of time and free up the drone module for some extra cargo space.

Have larger 'drone hanger' modules hold drones of increasing numbers and complexity (drones able to use shields, point defences and countermeasures, for example, while also increasing their levels of evasion tactics). Increase those variables by way of class and rating: Eventually, buying one or more drones should then essentially be like buying a 'mini-Sidewinder'. Imagine the additional layer of diversity you could have by outfitting your internal miniature fleet of drones, individually, then assigning each a particular category and sorting the results into different 'firing groups' (which, in itself, is a further argument for giving us a specialised tabbed 'weapons management' screen).

Another optional mechanic would be to say that you need X numbers of drones to speed along cargo of a specific mass. Look at the fun comedy games of the 'Overlord' series: You have to steer your swarm of minions over to operate or destroy things. Certain pieces of equipment need a certain number of minions to lift or operate. Why not have drones be similar? Cost becomes both a prohibitive and cost-effective variable.

And, yes, if we eventually get 'combat drones', that would mean a Type-9 might essentially gain its own 'mini-CAP' of defensive reusable drones it could unleash if under attack. But really... In what possible way is that a bad thing? It would force pirates to think creatively and always be aware they might not necessarily be picking on an easy target. It would also increase a need for more powerful scanners which could potentially tell if their target had hidden drone defences. All of that is a good thing and very much in keeping with the competitive and Capitalist way in which this continuity is presented! Combat-related supply/demand.

Honestly who cares about reusable drones, I'd rather have cheap, disposable drones by the truck load, than a few, more expensive, reusable ones, that if they break you have to dock to resupply.

So, what's the problem of having the option of both? :)

You want disposable assets you're forced to restock on? You can have them for a cheaper price. Most people would see the advantage of reusable machines, however.

Perhaps, just perhaps, FD have looked at the idea of having permanent drones Vs disposable drones and decided that the latter is the better solution. Personally I couldn't care less but can see that disposable drones have a lot of potential benefits that would require a lot of time and effort to replicate with permanent drones and frankly I don't see any actual downsides outside of peoples' aversion to a disposable item.

The problem is that disposable drones don't make much practical sense. It'd be like if we had to buy new undercarriage every time we landed. Yeah, you could, but what's the point?

Most people, including myself, also have issues with trying to understand what's literally meant to be happening, spaceship-wise. Your ship "consumes" them? Does that means it reclaims the material used to create them? If so, why not have an option not to do that?
 
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Well ramming is legal against ships so can't see it being illegal against drones. And friendly fire rules would probably need to be relaxed completely against drones because they will be so weak. As for the rest, I suspect (though of course cannot prove) that you might be in the minority as each of these would be a major inconvenience for miners akin to the inconvenience that bounty hunters have with friendly fire incidents, and they're hardly quiet about that.



Nonsensical is quite a strong word. I don't see why it might not be cheaper to have a sealed-unit disposable drone with limited lifespan than a reusable drone that can be repaired; we have enough examples of this with technology in real life, and cargo canisters decay when exposed to space so why not drones?

And yes, I do believe that the above situations I raised are areas where disposable drones offer a benefit over reusable drones.

Well I sure don't mind as long as I get the option to use drones that don't self-destruct after putting a canister in my scoop.
Canister decay because... I don't know. Game technical reasons? There's no reason to have lots of drones everywhere as long as they're active, so I don't see why they would take damage over time.

Why would it be cheaper to have disposable drones? It's just a little mobile thingy that grabs stuff and flies to your cargo hold. We don't have to replace our Sidewinder every time we dock at stations, and Sidewinders are way more complex designs than these drones, not to mention that they are old and obsolete. The drones are so simple, why not just have a robust drone that actually works without requiring replacement?
 
Disposable? Well, there's go this game feature, never to be used.

The drone should be a little ship, use fuel, get damaged, need refuel/repair, stuff like that.
But just default disposable like it's a missile after picking up one chunk, that's hilariously sad if that's going to be the implementation.

There's got to be a better way.
 
this ^^ and this ^^
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This is the first I heard of this but its something I've asked for a few times.
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Has anyone played Homeworld and watched the resource collectors. A version of that concept is what I'd like to see. (but I feel sure that won't happen)
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Like the previous posts, to make them a comsummable is not good. Also, they would have to speed up the scooping process or their value may not be worth the expense.
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They should have wear and tear requiring periodic maintenance and consume fuel. If there were more than one type, a disposable drone and a re-useable one, I could live with that but I doubt I would buy a disposable one (but then there may be a situation where I might).
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fwiw, this is good news imho
 
Well I sure don't mind as long as I get the option to use drones that don't self-destruct after putting a canister in my scoop.
Canister decay because... I don't know. Game technical reasons? There's no reason to have lots of drones everywhere as long as they're active, so I don't see why they would take damage over time.

Why would it be cheaper to have disposable drones? It's just a little mobile thingy that grabs stuff and flies to your cargo hold. We don't have to replace our Sidewinder every time we dock at stations, and Sidewinders are way more complex designs than these drones, not to mention that they are old and obsolete. The drones are so simple, why not just have a robust drone that actually works without requiring replacement?
While I don't mind the damage over time since it reduces clutter and therefore, lag, it's the time I'm concerned about. If these drones only last a few minutes, it's going to get very expensive to keep replacing them. Also, for mining, it still won't be profitable since it's an additional expense that makes mining low end ores pointless. In addition, will you be able to fill the hold of a T6 for example before you run out of drones and have to head back to resupply? The time you spend running back and forth to the station is time you lose for mining, unless these drones can fill your hold before you run out of them, mining in anything more than a Cobra at most is going to mean spending more time flying to the station and back to restock on drones with very little ore to sell. The time wasted for this alone still makes mining seriously unprofitable in terms of cr/hr compared to anything else.

From my experience with mining, getting two or three chunks off a roid before it depletes means the drones will have little to do, not being able to recover them and re-use them later means you're going to run out fast.

Give us re-usable drones that take damage. Force players to install the repair module that can also repair the drones instead of having to fly back to the station each time. Drones drop 2% per hour of use and at 10% remaining, they stop working and have to be scooped. At 0%, they self destruct as does anything else. Recall the drone when you're done or when it needs repair, if you leave it behind, it will eventually SD or someone else will scoop it up for themselves. One launched, the drone stays near you and runs off to collect anything that comes within range. It's quite simple if you think about it, the continual cost comes from repair, not from buying the drone.
 
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