Eclipses and planetary shadows etc?

[NeilF]

Do we currently have eclipses/planetary shadows in the game? ie: The shadow of one object travelling across the surface of another? eg: A moon's shadow across its parent planet?

And I wonder what this also means for the forthcoming Horizons? Will we see the shadow from an eclipse rushing across the surface toward us? And at the same time from up in orbit (SC?) see the shadow of the eclipsing object/planet going across that moon?

 

[Fost]

Currently there's no moon shadowing but you would of course see the moon pass in front of the sun. I'm hoping they get a chance to add this and also ring shadows on planets at some point. Rings could be the coolest thing to see from ground level.

 

[NeilF]

Currently there's no moon shadowing but you would of course see the moon pass in front of the sun. I'm hoping they get a chance to add this and also ring shadows on planets at some point. Rings could be the coolest thing to see from ground level.

Be kind of interesting for someone to work out in X months time there will be an odd/unique (dual) eclipse or something on a specific moon, then have loads of CMDRs landing on the moon to witness it etc...

 

[dannysquid]

I'm curious about this as well. I'm speculating that it may be a VERY hard thing to calculate shadows for tiny objects (the wheels of a rover) and gigantic objects (moons, rings) at the same time.

The mountain is certainly casting a nice shadow in the Horizons screenshot.

Also, I'm not sure how the dark side of planets will work, particularly if they still only have one star lighting them.

 

[Soliluna]

I'm curious about this as well. I'm speculating that it may be a VERY hard thing to calculate shadows for tiny objects (the wheels of a rover) and gigantic objects (moons, rings) at the same time.

The mountain is certainly casting a nice shadow in the Horizons screenshot.

Also, I'm not sure how the dark side of planets will work, particularly if they still only have one star lighting them.

The SRV seems to have A LOT of lights on it. So thats probably how they plan on having that working - will be nice to see a game that deals with absolute darkness for once (save for the distance stars ofc)

Would be nice to know whether the bodies REFLECT light also - as our moon provides a lot of reflected light at night.

Regarding the calculations to make the shadows - I have no idea how much resources that would cost considering I have no idea how the distant body is being rendered in the game. Hopefully it will be possible

 

[NeilF]

Also, I'm not sure how the dark side of planets will work, particularly if they still only have one star lighting them.

Well, the object is probably rotating, so it will have to go through day-night cycles, with lighting/shadows rendered accordingly.

And then, there my question of eclipse shadows coming into it as well? If a parent planet eclipses the star, will it be:-
- no change at all? ie: You still somehow get all the light from the star?
- just be "lights out" at totality? ie: So one minute loads of light, then none?
- a proper diminishing of sunlight? Possibly with a shadow rushing across the surface for totality?

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Would be nice to know whether the bodies REFLECT light also - as our moon provides a lot of reflected light at night.

I'd imagine they could add in a certain amount of calculated ambient light depending on source light strength and surface type? Obviously though you'd still want deep chasms to be nigh on pitch black?

 

[dannysquid]

Would be nice to know whether the bodies REFLECT light also - as our moon provides a lot of reflected light at night.

I imagine this would be reasonably easy to fake without having to do any crazy lighting algorithms, but at the moment planets can only be lit by one object at a time.

I'm assuming there's a technical reason for this. But maybe because we live in a system with one star, lighting from multiple sources just looks weird and wrong to our human eyes and they've taken it out!

EDIT: Actually, they aren't just calculating which bits of a planet are lit or in darkness, they're also calculating the appearance of the atmosphere, which I imagine gets a bit mental if you're taking into account multiple stars and shadows from moons etc... It's maybe the difference between a quick shader effect and something a lot more processor intensive.

 

[Sapyx]

I'm pretty sure "eclipses" currently work in-game. I recall being at Heike during the tea run, and noticing the station orbiting Heike 5 was in darkness because we'd passed into the shadow of the double-planet Heike 6, which was causing a total eclipse.

I do not know if I'd been out there a few minutes earlier, I'd have seen the shadow of Heike 6 pass across Heike 5. But I don't see why not. Shadows are one of the details they seem to have decided to "get right" in this game. I know that our little tiny spaceships cast their shadows on other ships, asteroids, space stations etc if we put the star directly behind us.

 

[LeetNoob]

Driving around rocky planets does not really interest me.

However sitting on a planet to watch a double Eclipse or ringed gas giant rising over the horizon or any of these kind of unusual events you could get with some interesting system configurations is something that really does interest me. It makes me think of that scene in Riddick where the suns disappear behind a gas giant and the planet drops into total darkness.

 

[NeilF]

I'm pretty sure "eclipses" currently work in-game. I recall being at Heike during the tea run, and noticing the station orbiting Heike 5 was in darkness because we'd passed into the shadow of the double-planet Heike 6, which was causing a total eclipse.

I do not know if I'd been out there a few minutes earlier, I'd have seen the shadow of Heike 6 pass across Heike 5. But I don't see why not. Shadows are one of the details they seem to have decided to "get right" in this game. I know that our little tiny spaceships cast their shadows on other ships, asteroids, space stations etc if we put the star directly behind us.

I don't recall anyone mentioning seeing one celestial objects shadow on another? ie: A moon's shadow going across its parent's surface? If this is not currently being done it raises the question I raised in #6. When we on a planet's surface in Horizons, how will an eclipse be handled?

 

[LeetNoob]

I'm pretty sure "eclipses" currently work in-game. I recall being at Heike during the tea run, and noticing the station orbiting Heike 5 was in darkness because we'd passed into the shadow of the double-planet Heike 6, which was causing a total eclipse.

I do not know if I'd been out there a few minutes earlier, I'd have seen the shadow of Heike 6 pass across Heike 5. But I don't see why not. Shadows are one of the details they seem to have decided to "get right" in this game. I know that our little tiny spaceships cast their shadows on other ships, asteroids, space stations etc if we put the star directly behind us.

Oh they do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5jGdUelpcw

 

[Soliluna]

Well, the object is probably rotating, so it will have to go through day-night cycles, with lighting/shadows rendered accordingly.

And then, there my question of eclipse shadows coming into it as well? If a parent planet eclipses the star, will it be:-
- no change at all? ie: You still somehow get all the light from the star?
- just be "lights out" at totality? ie: So one minute loads of light, then none?
- a proper diminishing of sunlight? Possibly with a shadow rushing across the surface for totality?

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I'd imagine they could add in a certain amount of calculated ambient light depending on source light strength and surface type? Obviously though you'd still want deep chasms to be nigh on pitch black?

Yeah we have ambient occlusion as a graphics option so I imagine chasms will still be dark because of this although I do not know what type of AO they use. I guess it comes down to whether or not they simulate the bounces of light with global illumination or whether they use physically based rendering or mapping.

I imagine this would be reasonably easy to fake without having to do any crazy lighting algorithms, but at the moment planets can only be lit by one object at a time.

I'm assuming there's a technical reason for this. But maybe because we live in a system with one star, lighting from multiple sources just looks weird and wrong to our human eyes and they've taken it out!

EDIT: Actually, they aren't just calculating which bits of a planet are lit or in darkness, they're also calculating the appearance of the atmosphere, which I imagine gets a bit mental if you're taking into account multiple stars and shadows from moons etc... It's maybe the difference between a quick shader effect and something a lot more processor intensive.

It's possible that it's because it looks weird although I swear on the galaxy map I have seen planets that orbit a yellow star with several other stars in the system being red dwarfs and the planets being coloured slightly pink. I think they were sulphur atmosphere planets which would surely have a yellow and green tinged hue? I will pay more attention next time and check itout. Perhaps the effects of the different coloured light is being added but the source is not being considered for shadowing because of the calculations being too intensive,; although, many engines can handle multiple real time point source lights and their shadows.

It would be interesting to hear some official words on how it all works because the although it wouldn't be something I could consider a major gripe - the authenticity of the simulation is something I get very excited about (despite being crap at physics and astronomy).

 

[NeilF]

However sitting on a planet to watch a double Eclipse or ringed gas giant rising over the horizon or any of these kind of unusual events you could get with some interesting system configurations is something that really does interest me. It makes me think of that scene in Riddick where the suns disappear behind a gas giant and the planet drops into total darkness.

Agreed..

We need tiers of effects rendered. Sitting on a moon and watching its parent planet eclipse the star... and seeing the light levels dimming before finally totality... where finally then a comet towards the star can now be seen very clearly... etc...

Or even an eclipse's shadow rushing across the rings around the moon/planet - As already mentioned above.

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Oh they do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5jGdUelpcw

That's not what's be discussed

What's being talked about is the shadow of an object being seen on another. eg: A moon's shadow travelling across its parent planet's surface. And then extrapolating this matter to Horizons where you're not simply looking at a moon/planet being eclipsed, but down on ground level witnessing it first hand.

 

[OriginalBadBoy]

That would be very difficult to do the shadows and make it look right at the same time. You could fake it to a point but it would look .. well .. fake.

Maybe something next gen GPU's (if we ever get them , tired of rebrands now) in conjunction with DX12, but otherwise I don't think its currently possible.

 

[Tinman]

I don't recall anyone mentioning seeing one celestial objects shadow on another? ie: A moon's shadow going across its parent's surface? If this is not currently being done it raises the question I raised in #6. When we on a planet's surface in Horizons, how will an eclipse be handled?

Maybe like it's handled in regards to asteroid belts...

[video=youtube;pMquvoYn23Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMquvoYn23Q[/video]

 

[Fost]

I know Space Engine can do this so fingers crossed for E D. Of course there's a lot more going on in E D than just making a planet look pretty so who knows.

 

[LeetNoob]

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That's not what's be discussed

What's being talked about is the shadow of an object being seen on another. eg: A moon's shadow travelling across its parent planet's surface. And then extrapolating this matter to Horizons where you're not simply looking at a moon/planet being eclipsed, but down on ground level witnessing it first hand.

Well what I mean is the mechanics are there. You will one body cross in front of another, which is what an eclipse is. What is missing as you rightly said is the shadows. So if they can create the moving shadow effects it would be perfect. I would say it’s not that complex to do. Moving light and shadows affects have been around for decades.

 

[NeilF]

Maybe like it's handled in regards to asteroid belts...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMquvoYn23Q

Nice link!

Yeh, so on ground level simply an approximation of the light levels being taken into consideration of where you are and how much of the star(s) you can see?

But as for planetary shadows traveling across the surface of another planet/moon? I wonder if they'll do that? With your rigs example, obvious the shadow is correct? It would be nice to think if there was a planet in the "line of fire" of that shadow, the result would be "properly" rendered.

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I know Space Engine can do this so fingers crossed for E D. Of course there's a lot more going on in E D than just making a planet look pretty so who knows.

Spoiler

View attachment 65060

OMG! Yes please!

 

[Pomerlaw]

I'm hoping they get a chance to add this and also ring shadows on planets at some point.

Yes! Please FD consider this! It would make them look so much better from space to!

 

[dannysquid]

I would say it’s not that complex to do. Moving light and shadows affects have been around for decades.

I don't know enough about how their engine works, but I think when you're dealing with a game that operates on the scales of ELITE, it's a mistake to make too many assumptions about this sort of thing! There are potentially a lot of decimal points going on if you're watching the shadow of a gas giant move across the grooves in a buggy steering wheel.