ED and ETs

[JoeDavidson456]

Hi,

So we've got the Thargoids, currently attacking humans.

1) Where are the peaceful, friendly ETs in ED?

2) Perhaps the Thargoid story line can evolve to an end to the war... how about
adding gameplay to work towards peace? A diplomatic effort of some kind,
for example? A learning of each other's language? A human understanding
of why the Thargoids are attacking in the first place. What do they want / need?
Is there a way to build common ground with them?

Any thoughts?

--JoeD

PS I know there is also the Guardians, but they are long gone...

 

[Sapyx]

1) Where are the peaceful, friendly ETs in ED?

They're hiding in the permit-locked sectors of the galaxy. There are seventeen remote permit-locked sectors; the Thargoids can't be hiding in all of them. Some of them might be the homeworlds of "Rogue AI" or "Lost Colonies", but statistically, the probability that none of the permit-locked sectors will contain a "friendly alien race" is quite low..

2) Perhaps the Thargoid story line can evolve to an end to the war... how about
adding gameplay to work towards peace? A diplomatic effort of some kind,
for example? A learning of each other's language? A human understanding
of why the Thargoids are attacking in the first place. What do they want / need?
Is there a way to build common ground with them?

They've had over 300 years of studying humans, and millions of years of experience at studying primitive aliens and their languages. Suffice to say, they already know our language. They just can't be bothered communicating to us with it, at least, not at official levels, or even at ship-to-ship levels. Which clearly implies they have nothing that they believe they can say to us, that would make any difference to interspecies relations.

If the Guardian experience is anything to go by, "what they want" is for all humans to leave Human space and go somewhere else, permanently, because the Thargoids have already made a prior claim on our space, millions of years ago. They are attacking us because they probably realise by now that the entire Human race is not going to voluntarily evacuate Human space, because we're territorial creatures with irrational sentiments about our "homes", especially our home planet, Earth.

They appear to be psychologically incapable of accepting the possibility of peaceful coexistence, and/or have concluded that Humans are psychologically incapable of being peacefully coexistent, indefinitely keeping any promises of non-aggression we might make - we are simply too disorganized, too individualistic; no Human government could enforce a peace treaty upon the entire Human race. The Final Solution to the human problem is, therefore, the only solution that is guaranteed to work, long-term, and is best implemented as soon as possible, before the Humans get too good at stealing or creating anti-Thargoid tech.

 

[JoeDavidson456]

So you think eventually a CMDR will discover a friendly race in one of the permit-locked systems?

And re: Thargoids -- Jees, that's bleak. "Why can't we just get along?"

It will take an evolution of human consciousness, person by person, CMDR by CMDR at least. That is
to say, those humans who have the capacity to fly among the stars will need to evolve to a place where
they can adhere to non-aggression agreements.

I've had very limited in-game contact with Thargoids -- I've only been pulled out of witch space several
times. When it happens -- I just sit there quietly -- they have a look, toss me a round a bit, but ultimately
leave me alone. Perhaps because I don't attack them..... If we don't step on their toes, perhaps they
won't hurt us....

John Lennon-esque, I know, but what other choice do we have? Eternal war.

 

[Sapyx]

So you think eventually a CMDR will discover a friendly race in one of the permit-locked systems?

I think that having so many permit-locked spheres of space, so far away from anyone and everyone, requires some kind of Lore explanation. My assumption regarding them goes something like this:

Someone - we don't know who, either a freelance explorer or a government-backed expedition - at some point int he past has discovered clear evidence of something significant - whether it be peaceful aliens, "lost colonies" of humans, or some such - in those sectors. They reported this to the authorities, and "They" (whoever They are) decided that those newly discovered beings needed protection. So they paid Universal Cartographics to apply a permit lock to the entire sector of space around the aliens, preventing casual, unofficial, untrained "explorers" from blundering in and ruining a First Contact situation.

Once They are satisfied that First Contact has been successfully attained, they will unlock the permit (or provide CMDRs with some means by which the permit can be attained), and then those CMDRs will be allowed into those regions of space and engage in peaceful activities (dialogue, trade, technology exchange, whatever) with whoever it is that lives in there.

They presumably also had similar permit-locks placed on Thargoid space (such as around the Cone Nebula) - only the Thargoids have chosen not to remain inside "their" protected bubbles. The Thargoid permit-lock bubbles still remain, only the purpose is now reversed - those bubbles are in place to protect innocent humans from the evil aliens, preventing CMDRs from flying into certain death and/or from causing a Thargoid hyper-reaction by having a Human ship blundering into one of their nests.

[OOC: Of course, we can't see any of these other aliens in-game until FD actually creates the aliens; they presumably have not yet done so. But the permit locks are in place, so that, once they do create the alien planets and space stations, the places where they create them remain Unexplored. Otherwise, someone could rightfully say "I visited those stars last year, and none of those alien planets and space stations were there then!"

I strongly suspect that FD's original intention was to release some friendly aliens for us "Soon", but that this project is now on the back-burner. My evidence: the subforum originally titled "Thargoids and Other Aliens" has been renamed to "Thargoids and Guardians".]

 

[Sapyx]

And re: Thargoids -- Jees, that's bleak. "Why can't we just get along?"

It will take an evolution of human consciousness, person by person, CMDR by CMDR at least. That is
to say, those humans who have the capacity to fly among the stars will need to evolve to a place where
they can adhere to non-aggression agreements.

I agree, that there is no logical reason why our two species cannot mutually coexist. Humans cannot occupy or terraform Thargoid planets - they're simply too cold. Likewise, Thargoids cannot live on or thargoform Earth-like planets - they're too hot. So there is no "Lebensraum" issue - we could easily live in separate parts of the same star systems, with only the resources on the rest of the system's planets up for grabs/negotiation. It's that "grabbing/negotiation" part that seems to be the Thargoid's sticking point.

Evidence from the Guardians implies that any "terms" the Thargoids set on a non-aggression treaty would be completely unacceptable to humans. The Guardians, by my reading of them, were more unified and monolithic in their culture, less individualistic, more tolerant and capable of peaceful coexistence with each other and therefore with aliens - yet they could not convince the Thargoids that peace was an option. If the Guardians failed, we Humans will certainly fail.

For example, suppose the "terms" of a Treaty with the Thargoids went something like this:

• All Humans will remove all weapons from their ships, immediately. A single human in a single armed ship will invalidate the Treaty.
• All Humans living within Thargoid space, on all planets, stations and ships (other than Earth), shall evacuate those planets and depart from Thargoid space at the earliest possible opportunity. A single human refusing to leave "their" planet will invalidate the Treaty.
• Once Humans have successfully evacuated Thargoid space, Humans may be permitted to continue to live on Earth, as they are a natural and essential part of that world's ecosystem. They will not, however, ever be permitted to leave again. A single starship launching from Earth will invalidate the Treaty.

I can't imagine the Thargoids being satisfied with anything more watered down than this - allowing us to continue to live on Earth would be a huge concession for them to make. But I can't imagine any but a tiny minority of Humans accepting this.