ED game mechanics that are now pointless :(

ED has quite a few game mechanics that originally had a big effect on gameplay, but were later heavily watered-down (either because of player outcry or new features made them ineffective). These mechanics now have such a small effect, they could be removed and it would not affect the gameplay of most people. I wish that FDev would make them have a slightly bigger effect again, as it'd make the game much more interesting, and for almost no development cost:

* Ship heat stealth mechanic. You used to be able to get your heat down to "0", so your ship iced-up & became invisible to sensors. This was fun/immersive, but then FDev heavily nerfed this in favour of pressing a button (for silent running) that has almost no discernible audio/visual effect. A great shame. ED's newsletter even highlighted a video demonstrating it... shortly before they effectively removed it.

* Ship wear & tear due to usage/travelling. Originally ships wore out quickly, just from a handful of jumps/etc, but players disliked having to frequently repair each ship component individually. So FDev massively reduced wear & tear, and then later added a quick "Repair All" button on station menus. So now (I assume) everyone just taps this Repair All button as a reflex, every time they dock, making wear & tear meaningless (except for explorers). FDev even spent a lot of effort making exciting malfunctions randomly occur at lower ship health, but now we only see these in PvP battles aimed at making them happen... 'Never' do they occur from just normal ship usage.

There are many solutions to this, but the simplest one is this: Every time you dock & decide to use the station's Repair facilities, you should be charged a sizeable fixed fee (and maybe have to enter the underground Hanger?). That way you would not use "Repair All" every time you docked, so ship health would gradually degrade, until it became worth while for you to use the Repair facilities. I guess the fixed fee should be proportional the size (and complexity) of your ship, keeping things cheap(er) for newbie Sidewinders.

A more complex solution would be that you CAN still use "Repair All" every time you dock, but this gradually becomes less effective as the ship ages (effectively the ships maximum possible health declines). Eventually you would have to get your ship "Serviced" (like you do every year with your car), which would cost a lot, but restore it's maximum health back to 100%. The maximum health would never decrease below some minimum level (to prevent ships becoming unusable without servicing). This minimum level could be higher for (say) Grade A or B modules, which would allow Explorers to still explore with suitably outfitted ships.

* Fuel costs. At one time these were a significant worry (particularly for traders trying to make a profit), but some complained about the cost, so now they are trivial except to newbies just starting out in a Sidewinder. You can run out of fuel, but the cost of buying fuel might as well be zero at the moment.

I suggest that the big ships should require much more fuel (so that the costs become significant), while small starter ships would still be able to afford fuel.... although that might require unrealistically large amounts of fuel, so maybe it's not so easy to fix? So what about larger ships requiring a higher "grade" of fuel (which would cost more)?

* Spacestation docking fees. At one time these were a meaningful amount, but now they are effectively zero. (Actually, I'm not even sure they exist anymore, without checking the game. They are THAT low.) Larger ships should be charged a reasonable sum for docking.

And docking at an Ocellus or Orbis spacestation should cost much more than a Coriolis, which should cost much more than an Outpost, which should cost much more than a planetary Surface Port. That way we'd actually have to weigh-up the cost-benefit of visiting an expensive station against the services we need/etc.

EDIT: I may be mistaken on docking fees ever existing, and since some people are focusing WAY too much on the "increased costs" suggestions, I'm just removing this entirely.


What other 'pointless' game mechanics have I forgotten about? I was going to add "Service, Ship & Equipment limited availability at space stations" to my list, but I suppose that FDev roughly got the right balance in this case (you can't find everything at many stations, but they usually offer enough not to hinder gameplay).
 
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Even Silent Running is mostly pointless now. When i smuggle in my Annie as soon as i hear "Scan Detected" i just pop a heatsink. Breaks the scan for 30 or so seconds. Don't even need to rig for silent.
 
I wish some of these features still had meaning.

I mean, we can comprise with some of them, making them meaningful without being harsh is entirely possible.

Fuel and repairs for example are tiny, and almost pointless.

When I moved up through the big ships, I assumed the running costs would increase, but they don't really.

I've limped my 140,000,000cr Python home with a few % hull, and heavy module damage, and it only cost around 140k to fix that's only 0.1% of my ships value, I'd have expected it to cost about 10x that... Or more.
I'd made several million from my bounty hunting, it was just pennies.
IMHO, the repair cost should be higher, but should never exceed the ships rebuy. Maybe a fully crippled ship should cost about 2.5% of your ships value.

Docking fees should apply, but be based on your reputation with the controlling faction. Free or very cheap for allied, average price for neutral, and rip off for unfriendly and hostile.

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
 
Please note

Docking fees was the increase fuel costs for larger ships.
But I agree it is odd now fuel costs less than the market average of Hydrogen fuel if bought wholesale (vs retail at the strart port pump)

I miss that being a point of difference between ship, with the Type Series having a very low running costs vs the Luxury Gutamaya for instance.


Repair all does not restore ships intergrity by the by, have you to manually select advanced maintentce then Intergrity.
But anyway nice when your ship did make a differewnce to running costs
 
ED has quite a few game mechanics that originally had a big effect on gameplay, but were later heavily watered-down (either because of player outcry or new features made them ineffective). These mechanics now have such a small effect, they could be removed and it would not affect the gameplay of most people. I wish that FDev would make them have a slightly bigger effect again, as it'd make the game much more interesting, and for almost no development cost:

* Fuel costs. At one time these were a significant worry (particularly for traders trying to make a profit), but some complained about the cost, so now they are trivial except to newbies just starting out in a Sidewinder. You can run out of fuel, but the cost of buying fuel might as well be zero at the moment.

I suggest that the big ships should require much more fuel (so that the costs become significant), while small starter ships would still be able to afford fuel.... although that might require unrealistically large amounts of fuel, so maybe it's not so easy to fix? So what about larger ships requiring a higher "grade" of fuel (which would cost more)?

* Spacestation docking fees. At one time these were a meaningful amount, but now they are effectively zero. (Actually, I'm not even sure they exist anymore, without checking the game. They are THAT low.) Larger ships should be charged a reasonable sum for docking.

And docking at an Ocellus or Orbis spacestation should cost much more than a Coriolis, which should cost much more than an Outpost, which should cost much more than a planetary Surface Port. That way we'd actually have to weigh-up the cost-benefit of visiting an expensive station against the services we need/etc.

* Ship heat stealth mechanic. You used to be able to get your heat down to "0", so your ship iced-up & became invisible to sensors. This was fun/immersive, but then FDev heavily nerfed this in favour of pressing a button (for silent running) that has almost no discernible audio/visual effect. A great shame. ED's newsletter even highlighted a video demonstrating it... shortly before they effectively removed it.

* Ship wear & tear due to usage/travelling. Originally ships wore out quickly, just from a handful of jumps/etc, but players disliked having to frequently repair each ship component individually. So FDev massively reduced wear & tear, and then later added a quick "Repair All" button on station menus. So now (I assume) everyone just taps this Repair All button as a reflex, every time they dock, making wear & tear meaningless (except for explorers). FDev even spent a lot of effort making exciting malfunctions randomly occur at lower ship health, but now we only see these in PvP battles aimed at making them happen... 'Never' do they occur from just normal ship usage.

There are many solutions to this, but the simplest one is this: Every time you dock & decide to use the station's Repair facilities, you should be charged a sizeable fixed fee (and maybe have to enter the underground Hanger?). That way you would not use "Repair All" every time you docked, so ship health would gradually degrade, until it became worth while for you to use the Repair facilities. I guess the fixed fee should be proportional the size (and complexity) of your ship, keeping things cheap(er) for newbie Sidewinders.

A more complex solution would be that you CAN still use "Repair All" every time you dock, but this gradually becomes less effective as the ship ages (effectively the ships maximum possible health declines). Eventually you would have to get your ship "Serviced" (like you do every year with your car), which would cost a lot, but restore it's maximum health back to 100%. The maximum health would never decrease below some minimum level (to prevent ships becoming unusable without servicing). This minimum level could be higher for (say) Grade A or B modules, which would allow Explorers to still explorer with suitably outfitted ships.


What other 'pointless' game mechanics have I forgotten about? I was going to add "Service, Ship & Equipment limited availability at space stations" to my list, but I suppose that FDev roughly got the right balance in this case (you can't find everything at many stations, but they usually offer enough not to hinder gameplay).

That's what happens when large amounts of the player base cry and whine and want no reduction to their credits per hour farming of whatever activity they choose to do whilst watching Netflix.
 
I remember that fuel cost were pretty high shortly after release - I still have 66 million paid fuel in my statistics (well.. cargo was more important than a fuel scoop during the trading-elite-run). But then the community was starting to complain about it and they lowered the price. Same goes to repair costs and the selling of used modules.

I would like to see docking and parking fees, as well as other credit sinks in this game. This is the most important part for the future in my opinion.
 
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The thing is, a lot of the changes you are complaining about were made due to feedback from players. So, most of these arguments have already been played out. The fuel cost should be low, as anyone can grab a fuel scoop and go to a star - it doesn't make sense that fuel should be higher for larger ships (except where they have a larger tank, of course).

Docking fees - I never knew these ever existed? I wouldn't mind these at all, and if the cost changed depending on your status (as suggested above), this would make sense too.

I also agree that repair costs should be higher. I limped my Python in with 6% hull and no canopy after a rather harsh encounter (for me, anyway :) ). It should have cost me almost as much as the original ship cost to repair (well, maybe half the ship cost, as clearly if a ship is still flying, it can't be too badly damaged!).

More options on stealth would also be good.
 
Since FD have improved their ability to nerf or buff things in small increments, rather than "all or nothing" increments, maybe they should revisit some of the old sledgehammer nerf/buff changes...?
 
But I agree it is odd now fuel costs less than the market average of Hydrogen fuel if bought wholesale (vs retail at the strart port pump)

That's interesting, hadn't noticed that. I agree, the wholesale price should certainly be cheaper than the retail price!
 
i would like to add navlocking to the list.

once a verry usefull feature when being in a wing, and for more than a year it just drops you where ever it want.. mostly around 160ls.
 
So many interesting game mechanics were nerfed to near meaninglessness by the cries of the Veruca Salts of the player base.

The two I weep for most are Supercruise and the Economic Sim.

In the case of Supercruise, the way mass altered FSD performance was much greater, which meant that if you wanted to get anywhere in a hurry, you had use careful navigation and clever breaking maneuvers to get anywhere in a hurry. It still matters, but the benefits of good Supercruise piloting is a savings of about two minutes, not the five minutes plus seen before the great mass shadow nerf.

The second is the nerf to the Economic Sim. Yes, this game simulates the economy, but you only see it's effects during CGs, when thousands of players descend upon nearby systems looking for commodities. Before the nerf, a single player in a T9 could deplete the supplies of a station in one or two visits, and it would take days for that station to build up its stockpiles unless players supplied the necessary raw materials. Thanks to player complaints, Frontier greatly increased the rate of resupply.
 
Agree with OP, in particular those changes to fuel and maintenance costs. And in a broader sense, the changes to money making, which is now much too easy compare to the cost of ships, especially at low tiers. The sidewinder is only used for the first four or five missions, after which you can jump straight to a Cobra, at which point you're half an hour away from an Asp. Nobody has to fly a Hauler, an Adder or an Eagle anymore, and when unlocking rank-gated ships you end up with so much money from the missions to get to that rank you can probably afford an Anaconda anyway.
 
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On docking fees, yeah i like that, it should be free once you're allied with the major faction (giving another incentive to level up, and an advantage to having a home or regular base) and then it could be increased if you are hostile. Also, being aligned with a superpower gets you a discount (50%). It wouldn't have to be a huge amount, 10,000 credits would do (20,000 if hostile).

On wear and tear and repairs, well, it can get pretty expensive already with ship integrity costs on cutters, condas and vettes, i've paid out more than 100,000 many times just for making a few dozen jumps (and that's with no other damage).
I like the idea of managing resources on long trips though. Using an AFMU and gathering mats for it is a bit of a sledgehammer approach as you don't really feel like your doing ongoing maintenance, it's only useful if you burn up while scooping.
Trouble is, most of my alternative ideas would force people to use Horizons (such as gathering specific mats for each thing that goes wrong in the ship, and keeping a stock of them for your most important systems). Having your shields gradually decrease in strength after each regen would be cool, and make res farming more challenging.
As thrusters and FSD degrade they need more fuel to be efficient, so scooping takes longer (till you can land and find the correct material to repair them).
Sensors start to miss certain objects, or can't identify them, again could be an extra challenge during long combat sessions, meaning you need to escapre to repair more often.
Maybe we can have scavenger drones of our own, when we encounter ship wrecks (via USS or whatever) we send them out to find useful ship repair materials, you could even have a new mini game of combining certain materials to make stronger hulls, short term faster thrusters, could even be something to do during supercruise (say you have 5 each of the materials you need to create a 30% thruster increase, on the way to a res site you enter a resource builder screen, in my head im thinking something like the mini game in paradriod, where you have to make the right connections quickly, maybe getting it wrong could decrease thruster speed).
 
On docking fees, yeah i like that, it should be free once you're allied with the major faction (giving another incentive to level up, and an advantage to having a home or regular base) and then it could be increased if you are hostile. Also, being aligned with a superpower gets you a discount (50%). It wouldn't have to be a huge amount, 10,000 credits would do (20,000 if hostile).

On wear and tear and repairs, well, it can get pretty expensive already with ship integrity costs on cutters, condas and vettes, i've paid out more than 100,000 many times just for making a few dozen jumps (and that's with no other damage).
I like the idea of managing resources on long trips though. Using an AFMU and gathering mats for it is a bit of a sledgehammer approach as you don't really feel like your doing ongoing maintenance, it's only useful if you burn up while scooping.
Trouble is, most of my alternative ideas would force people to use Horizons (such as gathering specific mats for each thing that goes wrong in the ship, and keeping a stock of them for your most important systems). Having your shields gradually decrease in strength after each regen would be cool, and make res farming more challenging.
As thrusters and FSD degrade they need more fuel to be efficient, so scooping takes longer (till you can land and find the correct material to repair them).
Sensors start to miss certain objects, or can't identify them, again could be an extra challenge during long combat sessions, meaning you need to escapre to repair more often.
Maybe we can have scavenger drones of our own, when we encounter ship wrecks (via USS or whatever) we send them out to find useful ship repair materials, you could even have a new mini game of combining certain materials to make stronger hulls, short term faster thrusters, could even be something to do during supercruise (say you have 5 each of the materials you need to create a 30% thruster increase, on the way to a res site you enter a resource builder screen, in my head im thinking something like the mini game in paradriod, where you have to make the right connections quickly, maybe getting it wrong could decrease thruster speed).
Have you gone through every idea I've ever posted in the suggestions forum, and stolen it? :p
 
i would like to see harch modifiers to maintenance cost equivalent to the ship value and module cost.

Repairs of an A module vs an E midule should be the equivalent of a street mechanic vs a Formula 1 repair and service center.

They really need to make E-A modules more diverse and interesting.
 
* Fuel costs. At one time these were a significant worry (particularly for traders trying to make a profit), but some complained about the cost, so now they are trivial except to newbies just starting out in a Sidewinder. You can run out of fuel, but the cost of buying fuel might as well be zero at the moment.
I think it was down to people inquiring why 1T of fuel had different costs depending on what ship you were flying, when it was all the same stuff - hydrogen

* Spacestation docking fees. At one time these were a meaningful amount, but now they are effectively zero. (Actually, I'm not even sure they exist anymore, without checking the game. They are THAT low.) Larger ships should be charged a reasonable sum for docking.
Don't think they even were in the live game - certainly no cost for touching down on the pad has been noticed

* Ship heat stealth mechanic. You used to be able to get your heat down to "0", so your ship iced-up & became invisible to sensors. This was fun/immersive, but then FDev heavily nerfed this in favour of pressing a button (for silent running) that has almost no discernible audio/visual effect. A great shame. ED's newsletter even highlighted a video demonstrating it... shortly before they effectively removed it.
This was hammered to kill the silent run/railgun meta, which most people thought was pretty dumb. Of course in typical fdev fashion, a large number of babies followed the used bathwater out the window, and we still have things like excessive ghost heat for firing in SR, and arguably too high thermal load for railguns. Emissive was enough, no need to totaly ruin silent running.

* Ship wear & tear due to usage/travelling. Originally ships wore out quickly, just from a handful of jumps/etc, but players disliked having to frequently repair each ship component individually. So FDev massively reduced wear & tear, and then later added a quick "Repair All" button on station menus. So now (I assume) everyone just taps this Repair All button as a reflex, every time they dock, making wear & tear meaningless (except for explorers). FDev even spent a lot of effort making exciting malfunctions randomly occur at lower ship health, but now we only see these in PvP battles aimed at making them happen... 'Never' do they occur from just normal ship usage.
This was another feature that often got reverted to a bugged state, much like the vanishing exquisite focus crystals problem that has happened about 3 times now. Frequently the W&T repair prices would exceed the rebuy cost of your ship, and since the W&T got reset when you got blown up, the self destruct button was used to 'repair' your ship instead.
 
* Fuel costs. At one time these were a significant worry (particularly for traders trying to make a profit), but some complained about the cost, so now they are trivial except to newbies just starting out in a Sidewinder. You can run out of fuel, but the cost of buying fuel might as well be zero at the moment

I think it was down to people inquiring why 1T of fuel had different costs depending on what ship you were flying, when it was all the same stuff - hydrogen



Spacestation docking fees. At one time these were a meaningful amount, but now they are effectively zero. (Actually, I'm not even sure they exist anymore, without checking the game. They are THAT low.) Larger ships should be charged a reasonable sum for docking.

Don't think they even were in the live game - certainly no cost for touching down on the pad has been noticed

That is because the increase fuel costs were the levy on larger ships made by the station.

It was even in the Station news when it was introduced, along with fuel scopps, with an article talking about fuel costs and station levies and the rsiks of fuel scooping.

Seemed not many people read it as so many asked why 1 ton of fuel was different for different ships.
There was even arguments that it was unrealistic and fuel would never be taxed or levied in real life
 
In this case, I agree with all the changes FD made.

For one, fuel costs were ridiculous for the Trader Python, making the ship almost useless which was a big reason why I sold it and went back to using the Clipper.

I hated flying the Python compared to the Clipper and then the fuel costs were just stupid on top of that.
 
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