ED - sandbox or themepark?

[lenna]

Repetitive content does not instantly make a Sandbox game a Themepark game (in fact repetitive content is still a feature of Sandbox games), there is a sufficient degree of disparity between ED and the nominal Theme Park game criteria that means ED can be categorically ruled out from the "Primarily Theme Park" assessment.

See this article: http://internetgames.about.com/od/mmorpgs/a/Mmorpgs-Sandbox-Vs-Themepark.htm

 

[david6768]

The poll is not about the future or what someone wishes ED to be.
I wish ED was a sandbox. Maybe in the future it will be.
As of today, it is static like theme park.

I did not trade in 1.3 but in 1.2 stuff was very static. A station had 1 ton of alcohol. I bought it, undocked and docked back. The station had 1 ton of alcohol. I bought it. Returned 3 hours later, the station had 1 ton of alcohol. Bought it. Undocked and back, the station had 1 ton of alcohol. The sale price never changed. That station was set to have 1 ton of alcohol I guess. Same as rares are maxed, too.

In a CG I participated, hundreds of pilots kept buying the same stuff from the same base for days. The prices or the supply did not change even a little.

It's the same now. I have been running the same trade route for a while now and every morning there is 136,000 slaves available. The station I am bringing them to has 0 demand and still pays a hefty price for them. There was a medium demand and I brought it down to zero, this affected the price a little bit but not much! I can deplete that 136,000 down a bit during the day but a couple of hours later the supply is back up like I was never there.

 

[Pendra]

But by that definition only something like Garry's Mod would be classified as a sandbox. You get all the tools at the very start. In most other sandbox games there is still some progression. You still have to unlock certain gear through play or you have some sort of ranking or leveling system.

The X games had this vibe. You could go anywhere, blow up bases and build new ones, clear out sectors and blockade factories so they have to sell their stuff for cheap.
That part always bothered me thou. It was cheaper and easier to blockade factories until the prices hit rock bottom than to set up your own supply chain.
Minecraft complies, too. Skyrim had home building features. SWG had elaborate systems sandbox systems.

 

[Clawhammer]

It is an grindfest, not a sandbox or Theme park

 

[Chann3l]

The X games had this vibe. You could go anywhere, blow up bases and build new ones, clear out sectors and blockade factories so they have to sell their stuff for cheap.
That part always bothered me thou. It was cheaper and easier to blockade factories until the prices hit rock bottom than to set up your own supply chain.
Minecraft complies, too. Skyrim had home building features. SWG had elaborate systems sandbox systems.

Yes, mine craft complies with that definition, but Skyrim does not as there Is progression involved. I think that definition works perfectly to describe what are commonly referred to as sandbox games if you remove the idea that sandbox games cannot have any sort of progression.

 

[Ironwolf]

power play, community goals are the two content patches since launch.

They're both theme park content, not sandbox.

This is the truth. Content patches.

 

[Darrett]

80% Theme Park, 20% Sandbox.

In a sandbox, the grains of sand interact with each other. Some less so (or not at all), but if I build a huge castle in an area, when you come along, that huge castle is there and changes your experience significantly. In a theme park, the ride resets each time and doesn't interact with your experience a great deal.

Right now Elite is in need of interconnectivity. Make those theme park rides interact, and the balance will shift (for the better).

 

[lenna]

This is the truth. Content patches.

Actually, Power Play is more Sandbox than Theme Park.

Yes, there fixed points in time where the changes take effect but:-

1. You can leave a faction after picking one, with in-game consequences depending on how you leave it - if it were true Theme Park you would not be able to and there would be zero consequences regardless of how you left the faction.
2. The universe state changes in accordance with Power Play participant activities at the end of each Power Play cycle - if it were true Theme Park this would not happen or the changes would be hard scripted

That is not the beginning and end of it but it is enough to debunk the premise being asserted.

EDIT: I should add that I am not a big fan of Power Play, but it does not constitute Theme Park content even if you squint at it with a sideways look.

 

[lenna]

Yes, mine craft complies with that definition, but Skyrim does not as there Is progression involved. I think that definition works perfectly to describe what are commonly referred to as sandbox games if you remove the idea that sandbox games cannot have any sort of progression.

Actually, since in Skyrim you are not railroaded from the outset down a particular Profession it could be considered Sandbox. GW2 and WoW on the other hand are more Theme Park like.

Yes, Skyrim does have plot lines and the choices you make may be irreversible and so could be considered part of the Theme Park type game play but you can change the state of the world with random acts and in some cases break plot lines by killing certain NPCs (or they can die through natural world evolution such as Dragon attacks).

 

[Chann3l]

Actually, since in Skyrim you are not railroaded from the outset down a particular Profession it could be considered Sandbox. GW2 and WoW on the other hand are more Theme Park like.

Oh sorry I think I've created some confusion. I think Skyrim is a sandbox, but by the definition that was pasted earlier, it would not be so I do not agree wth that definition is all.

 

[CMDR J Evans]

I think FD have tried to make it both but are currently struggling to be either due to lack of depth for both game styles. Hopefully they will resolve this (without us having to pay more). The core game unfortunately is too shallow (more so than First encounters), they attempted to increase depth/immersion with PP but judging from the poll on the forum and number of comments have not been very successful; at least they do acknowledge this and have been actively asking for feedback on suggestions. They have attempted to get the multi-player market with Wings and CQC. I for one am hoping they focus on improving the core game rather than creating more multi-player bolt ons but then I am not into multi-player!
I do wish FD luck though as I would like a reason to start playing it again but I feel they need to sort out what the game is meant to be in terms of solo / open and how much multi-player to put into the open game.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Sandbox is a game where you have some in-game tools to build in game content for yourself or for a group of players.

https://www.google.nl/search?q=sand...-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=-NfUVbjQCoW5Ub_6ifgE

Sandbox game basically means Open-world game(though there can be some game dependent distinctions). A game where players can roam freely as per their will, or can complete missions/objectives of game.

 

[lenna]

https://www.google.nl/search?q=sand...-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=-NfUVbjQCoW5Ub_6ifgE

Further to what Ziggy has quoted... from Wikipedia

Sandbox game
A 'Sandbox game' is a game wherein the player has been freed from the traditional structure and direction typically found in video games, and is instead given the ability to choose what, when, and how they want to approach the available choices in content. The term sandbox is in reference to a child's Sandbox in which no rules are present and play is derived from open ended choice. While some sandbox games may have building and creation aspects to their gameplay, those activities are not required. Sandbox games usually take place in an open world setting as to facilitate the freedom of choice a player is given.

That is not to say in Sandbox games there are no rules at all, just that the rules are more to do with how the gameplay is defined/facilitated rather than how it is necessarily restricted. Even a Child's sandbox has limitations such as the type and available colours of the sand for example.

While certain aspects of ED's gameplay may seem limited in variety such limitations are a million miles away from making it a Theme Park class game.
---
ED is far from perfect, and the topic of what TYPE of game it is seems extremely moot to me. If there is actually certain features people would like to see implemented how about approaching it from an RFC (Request For Change) Poll approach rather than simply complaining about how you don't like certain aspects.

 

[Witzo]

Is ED sandbox or theme park type of game?

Neither. It is a computer game.
Don't let marketing speak narrow down your view of a game as one of only two options. Before you know it, you find yourself comparing it with other games on only that qualification, which does no justice to any game.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

How often do you hear children cry in a sandbox: This sandbox may be 6 feet wide, it's only a foot deep!

 

[Varrag]

Open world doesn't necessarily mean sandbox (and vice-versa). For example, Gothic series are all played in open worlds, but it's hard to put these games into the sandbox category. Just like in ED, you are free to roam and pick different tasks as you may see fit, but ultimately it's just different pre-defined rides that you're taking. Modern themepark games are pretty much doing the same: they won't force you into one path, but once you step on it, there is very little that you can do with your creativity because you're playing what the devs wanted you to play.

Also, if there is a progression in game, that doesn't mean that it's a themepark. Take EVE for example: it's hard to argue that this game is not a true sandbox, but basic premise of the game is closely connected to progressions in skills (hardcoded ingame skills), reputations and, as usual, money.

I don't know. Perhaps I've spent too much time with sandbox games and thus became a bit rigid, but I must say that the term "sandbox" is way too easily slapped to just about anything these days...

 

[Itaki]

I don't think it matters as long as you enjoy the game. If you don't enjoy it, don't be a masochist, there are plenty of games out there, can always come back when new content gets added. I think it's a sandbox in the sense that you build your own adventure and you dictate what kind of character you want to be. Also, there is a background simulation and people are actively flipping systems. There is also powerplay and your actions do have visible consequences within that. Example, I spent several hours earning merits undermining and contribute a large percentage to the prevention of expansion in a system. You may not like the tools that are provided but there are tools.

Exactly. Labels are irrelevant, unless of course someone has to categorize things in order to enjoy them. I was smuggling, but it got really boring so I started killing stuff. Now I alternate between the two as I still am making a lot more smuggling than killing stuff. If there is a community goal, I go do that. I might go haul some propaganda for my sweet honey Felicia at times. I've been turning things green around Rhea and other nearby systems, and pirating in other systems. When I get tired of the game, I go do something else.

 

[Chann3l]

Further to what Ziggy has quoted... from Wikipedia

That definition makes sense to me, the other definition that implies that a sandbox game must be void of all progression does not.

 

[Notwyn]

It seems to me that the OP's opening description is just a thinly veiled attempt to promote guilds and to host a poll to support it.

 

[Varrag]

That definition makes sense to me, the other definition that implies that a sandbox game must be void of all progression does not.

IMO, that definition can be applied to modern themepark games as well. What makes one game sandbox is not the freedom to roam around and approach different content as you see fit, but complex inter-connected structure where all, or most, gameplay elements, mechanics and features affect each ather in meaningful and apparent way.