I can't believe I hadn't thought about it like this before. One of my nitpicks with the main game is that crime (usually) doesn't pay. I haven't tested smuggling after the new changes but crime should be more lucrative than mining, but a lot more risky.
EDO Engineering feedback from a 5k hrs veteran player
- Thread starter rootsrat
- Start date
I didn't want to comment on all these points as most are true for me also.Time for the usual wall of text feedback from yours truly, this time regarding EDO engineering (suits and weapons)
I have now spent A LOT of hours on this, learning the process, unlocking some Engineers and trying to gather materials to improve my gear. The approach was to use EDO Materials Helper app, create a loadout and then use that loadout to create the list of required materials.
Note 1 - This feedback is from a perspective of a veteran player with over 5k hours in game with a immersion and role-play approach to Elite.
Note 2 - I didn't have many of the materials collected for starters, as I spent the majority of time on exploration trip since Odyssey was released. (I rage quitted to SagA* basically, due to the terrible state it was released in).
Note 3 - All of the below is my personal, subjective opinion. It's OK to disagree with it
So I have started with this loadout:
- G3 Maverick suit with 2 mods
- G3 Karma AR50 with 2 mods
- G3 Tormentor with 1 mod
After Fargod only knows how many hours I now have:
- G4 Maverick + 3 mods
- G3 Karma + 2 mods
- G4 Torm + 3 mods
I didn't count my game time I spent to get here, but believe me it was A LOT of hours. Definitely Counted in 10s.
OVERALL THOUGHTS
My overall impression is that EDO engineering is an absolutely terrible, time consuming and effort requiring process, which kills a lot of joy that I used to have when playing Elite. It makes me go out of my character's role play to mindlessly grind stuff, not caring about my backstory or in-game consequences. It has become a box-ticking exercise to me. Due to the RNG nature and lack of solid in-game info about where exactly get the materials, the amount of time that would be required to gather the stuff to max out, or even 4G just 1 loadout by "just playing the game" and adventuring around the bubble is beyond ridiculous and terrible game design in my opinion. I honestly don't even think it's doable for a regular gamer in a reasonable amount of time.
My biggest surprise is the rather opposite direction that EDO engineering has taken compared to ship engineering. Most of the process is a 180 degrees turn. A few examples:
- Ship material sources are very clearly described in-game for every single mat. Literally none of the EDO materials has the info about where to get it from.
- There is a plethora of ways to gather different types of ship mats, allowing for variety gameplay. EDO material gathering is rather limited in its variety.
- Player can exchange any ship material for another one at Mat Traders. Bartender will only trade in a small portion of materials and the rest needs to be gathered.
- Ship mods can be swapped. EDO mods are permanent.
This whole process really works more as a deterrent to upgrading my gear and even playing the game at all, which is a shame, because I quite enjoy the actual gameplay. But when I think about how much time I need to spend doing the same missions over and over again, and visiting the same POI over and over again, I'd really just play something else.
Let's do some bullet points, I love me a good list. Remember this is just IMO.
THE GOOD
- Feeling of accomplishment when you finally gather enough mats to do ONE upgrade
- Ability for players to trade mats (but also see the bad)
- The involved gameplay is actually fun, even though a bit basic at times
THE BAD (roughly ordered from the worst offenders to the minor ones)
- The complete lack of information regarding sourcing the materials
- Permanent modifications on weapons and suits, absolutely discourages experimenting with different loadouts. This was a lot of fun for ship engineering.
- The drop rate of some materials is absolutely ridiculous
- Many bugs that make the process even more tedious, grindy and difficult
- Objectively forcing players to choose the criminal path, which allows for more efficient mats gathering
- Rather limited gameplay options to gather the materials, makes the gameplay very "samey"
- No in-game tools whatsoever to support player to player material trading
- Limited options for NPC material exchange
THE BUGS
- Unlocking some engineers doesn't work, require FDEV support intervention
- Unable to transfer ship after being in jail, requires tedious Horizons workaround
- Bad game performance in some places
- Mission items not spawning, requires relogging to main menu, sometimes multiple times before the mission item is finally spawned.
All of the above points combined make the EDO engineering process an extremely tedious, grindy and unpleasant experience that works as a deterrent to playing the game at all for me.
HOW TO IMPROVE THINGS?
Longer terms actions could include new gameplay loops and in-game UI for player-to-player material exchange.
- Provide in game info of where to acquire the materials
- Increase the drop rate for some of the materials OR lower the requirements
- Allow players to exchange mods on weapons and suits
- Fix the bugs
I've had some more things in mind to write, but I think this post is already long enough. Hopefully this is a helpful feedback for FDEV from a passionate, veteran player. Hoping to see some improvements sooner rather than later!
Be polite and play nicely when discussing. Please.
o7 Commanders!
I'll therefore shorten my reply to:
1) Yes please, make the drop rate of mats more frequent. Manufacturing instructions are my current bugbear. Everything wants MI's.
2) Yes please to moving mods around weapons! This would make for a lot less grind and a lot more enjoyment
rootsrat
Volunteer Moderator
Yeah, I don't mind that crime pays at all! My 3rd account is a Commander on the wrong side of the law
I also wouldn't mind AT ALL if the criminal path sped up the process, if the non-criminal path was 1) more varied and 2) much less time-and-effort consuming.
The lack of adequate materials traders for data is an irritation, as is the sheer number of different data mats needed.
I have a substantial stock of the basics (Schematics, Digital Designs, Manufacturing Instructions, Power Regulators) purchased from another player's Carrier (I think the grind would have been unbearable otherwise), and I can get assets from looting settlements and trading, but this still leaves the individual data requirements for the mods, which often take ages to come up as mission rewards and are too much in-demand to be found on Carriers. Then it's like hitting a brick wall.
I have a substantial stock of the basics (Schematics, Digital Designs, Manufacturing Instructions, Power Regulators) purchased from another player's Carrier (I think the grind would have been unbearable otherwise), and I can get assets from looting settlements and trading, but this still leaves the individual data requirements for the mods, which often take ages to come up as mission rewards and are too much in-demand to be found on Carriers. Then it's like hitting a brick wall.
Not sure if these have already been mentioned - I did look, but my obserbational skills are lacking so please forgive me if they were.
I'd like to add three things to the "list" of stuff Odyssey (and Horizons come to that) could have/should do better:
I'd like to add three things to the "list" of stuff Odyssey (and Horizons come to that) could have/should do better:
- Have a better mechanism for getting tritium to your carrier depot - going via the ship seems... odd, to say the lease. Also, given how much tritium those things chew through, shuttling a 752 ton T9 isn't much fun so I'd like to see something more efficient here too.
- The carrier crew need to "recognise" their owner/CMDR/god and not have some generic welcome etc.
- Tritium yields from asteroids needs to be a lot hight. A lot. Using a carrier is limited somewhat in that it needs loads (see above) and Colonia is almost bereft unless you want to pay oodles to other owners. Sure, you could but 20,000 tons before heading out...
I have had a newbie account since the summer sale. I wanted to play this CMDR without the engineering grind, ship, suit or weapons. I have bought two pre-engineered items for a ship (FSD and DSS) and bought G3/2 suits and weapons and to date have left it at that. I currently have no intention of doing ground CZs with this CMDR and spend most of my time on BGS related activity. I have picked up materials along the way should I decide to upgrade any suits or weapons.
Without high grade gear, I feel that I have still been able to play the game. The question therefore is, why is G4/G5 fully modded gear really needed? If it is not needed, then the grind can be avoided. I can understand the need to add that must have mod that cannot be obtained via purchase, but, how many mods on a suit or weapon are really needed? I would argue one or two. For suits I think night vision, weapon wise noise suppression or audio masking. Everything else I believe is just chrome.
Not everyone shares the minimalist viewpoint, they play how they want. The variety of life (and gaming).
Steve.
It's no more repetitive than Horizons. The only difference is FD caved to the whiners and put in the easy outs for Horizons. Give it a few years and maybe they'll do the same for Ody.
I concur...I still have not upgraded any suits/weapons...the only thing I've found that was too difficult, so far anyway, is the protect missions, which I've only done one of...and got rightly slaughtered...
Other than the protect missions, I can run circles around High Ground CZs with my pre-upgraded/as-purchased gear and scavengers are fairly easy too...
The only EDO engineering I've done is give Domino Green the 5 Push she wanted to introduce me to Hero Ferarri...IIRC
It can be quite random.
I did one in a G5 Mav, the the next one i failed it rather fast
Then i did one in a G3 Dom, another one in a G5 Dom, then failed another one in a G5 Dom
And i'm no noob when it comes to on-foot combat.
Ozric
Volunteer Moderator
You say that as though they're everywhere, they certainly weren't when I was trying. If I'm looking for mission rewards, I wouldn't think to look for a different reward type to guarantee that I'd find some Push there. The game certainly doesn't tell me that.
I do also try to avoid surface POI missions because I don't do combat on my main character, and as bad guys turn up and start shooting you there's often no way for me to get the mission item in time, let alone look for extra loot.
Whenever I get back to the bubble, and don't have anything else to do, I'll give it another shot at some point...its on my to do list...with a lot of other things...It can be quite random.
I did one in a G5 Mav, the the next one i failed it rather fast
Then i did one in a G3 Dom, another one in a G5 Dom, then failed another one in a G5 Dom
And i'm no noob when it comes to on-foot combat.
Small quantities of Push can be found in lockers in settlements as well as in larger numbers in the big containers found at many PoIs, as well as the smaller containers at crash sites. Larceny missions with the 3 big containers rarely have any scavs.
Or just obtain from a player with spare. I only keep some on hand in case someone needs some.
Steve
I have fully upgraded gear, but it was a slog. And I have no desire to even begin grinding for more to try alternate gear. That makes the inability of swapping mods on weapons and suits the most jarring thing for me. If I could treat the mods as a swappable toolkit, I'd be much more willing to make one of each type and possibly a few duplicate ones for use together on multiple weapons. For that I'd also find the required effort fair, but once your done, your done. With how it currently is, it either needs to be made way less grindy, or mod swapping must come.
Haven't read people's feedback yet but reading the OP just reinforces the opinion of on-foot engineering I'd picked up from similar tales and leaves me feeling extremely glad I haven't bothered, at all, with a single attempt to do any on foot upgrades or engineering whatsoever (aside from picking up free grade 3 stuff via the the-great-pre-upgraded-gear-sharing-is-caring-thread).
rootsrat
Volunteer Moderator
This.
Since earning credits, influence and rep are all so completely imbalanced for the effort involved compared to ship missions, the only reason to do them is:
- for funsies, which wears thin quick for anything, or
- for odd-exclusive engineering mats
Which is a missed opportunity, and yet totally unsurprising, given the state of the ship based game.
To add a different perspective...
I have G5'd as much as I can so far - and will continue to do so for two reasons:
1) I'm poor at on-foot combat. The mods give me the edge I need. I don't have the git gud ability. I just don't.
2) I'm OCD. If it ain't G5'd, it ain't finished
+1 on Push, I have tons of it. If you want any send us a PM and I'll open the bar.Small quantities of Push can be found in lockers in settlements as well as in larger numbers in the big containers found at many PoIs, as well as the smaller containers at crash sites. Larceny missions with the 3 big containers rarely have any scavs.
Or just obtain from a player with spare. I only keep some on hand in case someone needs some.
Steve
EDO could definitely do with a data trader.
Yes to everything. Have been on my way slowly to Beagle Point since EDO launch for similar reasons. My second CMDR, that I got to play a bit with EDO engineering, is largely ignored as the gameplay is dull and the frame rate to deal with it atrocious. Sadness abound.Time for the usual wall of text feedback from yours truly, this time regarding EDO engineering (suits and weapons)
I have now spent A LOT of hours on this, learning the process, unlocking some Engineers and trying to gather materials to improve my gear. The approach was to use EDO Materials Helper app, create a loadout and then use that loadout to create the list of required materials.
Note 1 - This feedback is from a perspective of a veteran player with over 5k hours in game with a immersion and role-play approach to Elite.
Note 2 - I didn't have many of the materials collected for starters, as I spent the majority of time on exploration trip since Odyssey was released. (I rage quitted to SagA* basically, due to the terrible state it was released in).
Note 3 - All of the below is my personal, subjective opinion. It's OK to disagree with it
So I have started with this loadout:
- G3 Maverick suit with 2 mods
- G3 Karma AR50 with 2 mods
- G3 Tormentor with 1 mod
After Fargod only knows how many hours I now have:
- G4 Maverick + 3 mods
- G3 Karma + 2 mods
- G4 Torm + 3 mods
I didn't count my game time I spent to get here, but believe me it was A LOT of hours. Definitely Counted in 10s.
OVERALL THOUGHTS
My overall impression is that EDO engineering is an absolutely terrible, time consuming and effort requiring process, which kills a lot of joy that I used to have when playing Elite. It makes me go out of my character's role play to mindlessly grind stuff, not caring about my backstory or in-game consequences. It has become a box-ticking exercise to me. Due to the RNG nature and lack of solid in-game info about where exactly get the materials, the amount of time that would be required to gather the stuff to max out, or even 4G just 1 loadout by "just playing the game" and adventuring around the bubble is beyond ridiculous and terrible game design in my opinion. I honestly don't even think it's doable for a regular gamer in a reasonable amount of time.
My biggest surprise is the rather opposite direction that EDO engineering has taken compared to ship engineering. Most of the process is a 180 degrees turn. A few examples:
- Ship material sources are very clearly described in-game for every single mat. Literally none of the EDO materials has the info about where to get it from.
- There is a plethora of ways to gather different types of ship mats, allowing for variety gameplay. EDO material gathering is rather limited in its variety.
- Player can exchange any ship material for another one at Mat Traders. Bartender will only trade in a small portion of materials and the rest needs to be gathered.
- Ship mods can be swapped. EDO mods are permanent.
This whole process really works more as a deterrent to upgrading my gear and even playing the game at all, which is a shame, because I quite enjoy the actual gameplay. But when I think about how much time I need to spend doing the same missions over and over again, and visiting the same POI over and over again, I'd really just play something else.
Let's do some bullet points, I love me a good list. Remember this is just IMO.
THE GOOD
- Feeling of accomplishment when you finally gather enough mats to do ONE upgrade
- Ability for players to trade mats (but also see the bad)
- The involved gameplay is actually fun, even though a bit basic at times
THE BAD (roughly ordered from the worst offenders to the minor ones)
- The complete lack of information regarding sourcing the materials
- Permanent modifications on weapons and suits, absolutely discourages experimenting with different loadouts. This was a lot of fun for ship engineering.
- The drop rate of some materials is absolutely ridiculous
- Many bugs that make the process even more tedious, grindy and difficult
- Objectively forcing players to choose the criminal path, which allows for more efficient mats gathering
- Rather limited gameplay options to gather the materials, makes the gameplay very "samey"
- No in-game tools whatsoever to support player to player material trading
- Limited options for NPC material exchange
THE BUGS
- Unlocking some engineers doesn't work, require FDEV support intervention
- Unable to transfer ship after being in jail, requires tedious Horizons workaround
- Bad game performance in some places
- Mission items not spawning, requires relogging to main menu, sometimes multiple times before the mission item is finally spawned.
All of the above points combined make the EDO engineering process an extremely tedious, grindy and unpleasant experience that works as a deterrent to playing the game at all for me.
HOW TO IMPROVE THINGS?
Longer terms actions could include new gameplay loops and in-game UI for player-to-player material exchange.
- Provide in game info of where to acquire the materials
- Increase the drop rate for some of the materials OR lower the requirements
- Allow players to exchange mods on weapons and suits
- Fix the bugs
I've had some more things in mind to write, but I think this post is already long enough. Hopefully this is a helpful feedback for FDEV from a passionate, veteran player. Hoping to see some improvements sooner rather than later!
Be polite and play nicely when discussing. Please.
o7 Commanders!
SThe people that don't know how to play the game complain the most.
e.g.
You don't need to do larceny missions. You can just go find Irregular Markers on your own. Or you can do other POI missions and see if you also locate any IRs since you'll be scanning the planet anyway. Every IR mission I've done recently has had zero scavs btw (and taking off and nuking them with missiles is still an option). Drugs are an illegal item. You find them in anarchy jurisdiction. If you do Restore/reactivate in an anarchy you will find plenty of drugs in the sealed lockers.
The game is old school in that instead of pointing you directly at everything it expects you to explore and figure stuff out for yourself; some might even call that playing the game. This is neither good nor bad. It simply is. With the internet you can find out everything anyway. Of course, Frontier did put a Codex in the game, if only they knew what that actually meant, instead of putting in silly exploration checklists for every sector.