Elite Dangerous | Commodities Market Issue Update

[_Flin_]

How do You know this? Is this a rule published by Frontier? How do You know that this behaviour is not a bug?

Thats how we do it in the colonization testing thread and in my squadron.
It appears to work, to a degree, unless there are additional bugs.

I don't know whether anything is a bug. To do so, I'd need to have a documentation about what is actually intended behavior, which i do not have. So everything is basically reengineering, trying out and observing the results.

If you prefer writing tickets and issues instead, do as you please.

 

[_Flin_]

There appears to be a bug where building a building with economy influence adds economy influence only after another building is built in the same local zone.
For that i opened an issue in the issue tracker, "Colonization economy influence is delayed when building influencers".

So if you happen to come across this behavior (e.g. you build Refinery + Space Farm, have 0.5 Refinery market, build another Refinery, have Refinery + agri), please take the time to add your experience to the issue. Thanks.

Issue Tracker

issues.frontierstore.net

 

[BDelacroix]

Oh, I'll have to check my planet port. I refrained from building more on the planet because of this apparent issue.

Well, Narlikar gateway is indeed selling more than 3 things now. Good news.

 

[Lord Proton]

I've encountered an issue today where the commodities market of the primary port is completely empty. The planet the station orbits has three extraction settlements and one refinery hub. Additionally there is an orbiting mining outpost. Yesterday the market was stocked as expected.

I've ensured there are no filters applied.

Has anyone encountered this issue before?

EDIT: It must have been a server issue as the market has gone back to normal now

 

[James Razor]

Well... as feared, the new update did throw a big wrench into my plans to turn my Orbis, which was started under the old rules, to an Agri Station.

Seems a Space Farm and 2 Large Agri Settlements are not enough to overcome the Icy Moon with Volcanism Malus and turn the station into a mainly Agri Sation.

Also, the UI is somewhat missleading (again), as it suggest a strong Agri Influence through the strong links, but does not account for the Planetary Body Influence.
That entire weak link thing is also massively messing up all other stations in the system, so I am very reluctant to build more stuff.

 

[Ryan Murdoc]

I can confirm that no Agricultural or Research Settlement, regardless of Size, does have any Market to show. Nothing to buy or sell, all is blank.

 

[Rock Hunter]

Well... as feared, the new update did throw a big wrench into my plans to turn my Orbis, which was started under the old rules, to an Agri Station.

Seems a Space Farm and 2 Large Agri Settlements are not enough to overcome the Icy Moon with Volcanism Malus and turn the station into a mainly Agri Sation.

Also, the UI is somewhat missleading (again), as it suggest a strong Agri Influence through the strong links, but does not account for the Planetary Body Influence.
That entire weak link thing is also massively messing up all other stations in the system, so I am very reluctant to build more stuff.

I was in a similar position recently having built a Coriolis above an icy body with one Ceres T2, one Anonna (T1) facility on the body and a Demeter installation in slot 2 around the planet (all built under the old rules) which gave me a local source for Water, Fruit and Veg etc. When the new rules took effect Fruit and Veg disappeared and a large Industrial influence was gained by the Coriolis.

I’ve since completed three more Ceres facilities and, despite not yet going through a Thursday tick, have started producing Fruit and Veg again (currently showing a stock of 50’000 F&V) amongst others. The station is showing in the Market as only Agricultural now. I’ll need to check percentages etc as I only finished them last night but it seems you’ll need at least four building spots, possibly five, to overcome the body’s natural influence - but obviously not to the level of being around an ELW/WW etc. I have no volcanism on the planet but do have biologicals.

I think we’re going to have to accept the ‘Beta phase’ in terms of what we built prior to the changes but some tweaks to the strong and weak links would certainly benefit future building particularly in terms of mixed economy systems. With this system I’ve accepted that I’ll brute force it into being an Agri only system just to counter, where I can, the ‘natural system economy’ and the effects of the system stat boosting constructions.

 

[S0rkvild]

I can confirm that no Agricultural or Research Settlement, regardless of Size, does have any Market to show. Nothing to buy or sell

Same in my colonized system. Small agricultural settlement has nothing to buy or for sale, nevertheless some agricultural goods appear on military outpost orbiting above, yet nothing to purchase from ground. I even built a civilian hub as someone told me this such open the market, but that didn't change anything and no good for sale.

 

[James Razor]

I was in a similar position recently having built a Coriolis above an icy body with one Ceres T2, one Anonna (T1) facility on the body and a Demeter installation in slot 2 around the planet (all built under the old rules) which gave me a local source for Water, Fruit and Veg etc. When the new rules took effect Fruit and Veg disappeared and a large Industrial influence was gained by the Coriolis.

I’ve since completed three more Ceres facilities and, despite not yet going through a Thursday tick, have started producing Fruit and Veg again (currently showing a stock of 50’000 F&V) amongst others. The station is showing in the Market as only Agricultural now. I’ll need to check percentages etc as I only finished them last night but it seems you’ll need at least four building spots, possibly five, to overcome the body’s natural influence - but obviously not to the level of being around an ELW/WW etc. I have no volcanism on the planet but do have biologicals.

I think we’re going to have to accept the ‘Beta phase’ in terms of what we built prior to the changes but some tweaks to the strong and weak links would certainly benefit future building particularly in terms of mixed economy systems. With this system I’ve accepted that I’ll brute force it into being an Agri only system just to counter, where I can, the ‘natural system economy’ and the effects of the system stat boosting constructions.

I did a quick 'experiment', so to speak and a near-by system with a M-Class star and a Brown Dwarf, 4 Slots (including Primary Port) total to build in.

Completed a Coriolis over the weekend (Primary Port), added 2 Space Farms into the 2 Orbital Slots available near it at the primary star and a Tier 2 Government Installation at the single slot around the Brown Dwarf (which was luckily only 9k-sih Ls out, so not too far).

Screenshots show the market I currently have with a pop of 34k up from 11k (I expect it to grow a bit still, so commodity numbers might increase still).
I even got animal meat and according to the market info, it seems that no one else in range is producing it.

Might be an alternative idea, especially for small slot amount systems if you want agri.

System is COL 285 Sector CY-U B18-0

 

[Ralph Vargr]

I think we’re going to have to accept the ‘Beta phase’ in terms of what we built prior to the changes but some tweaks to the strong and weak links would certainly benefit future building particularly in terms of mixed economy systems. With this system I’ve accepted that I’ll brute force it into being an Agri only system just to counter, where I can, the ‘natural system economy’ and the effects of the system stat boosting constructions.

So, our rejected second grade papers with an "F" are things we will regret for eternity...

 

[Ned Flandalorian]

I did a quick 'experiment', so to speak and a near-by system with a M-Class star and a Brown Dwarf, 4 Slots (including Primary Port) total to build in.

Completed a Coriolis over the weekend (Primary Port), added 2 Space Farms into the 2 Orbital Slots available near it at the primary star and a Tier 2 Government Installation at the single slot around the Brown Dwarf (which was luckily only 9k-sih Ls out, so not too far).

Screenshots show the market I currently have with a pop of 34k up from 11k (I expect it to grow a bit still, so commodity numbers might increase still).
I even got animal meat and according to the market info, it seems that no one else in range is producing it.

Might be an alternative idea, especially for small slot amount systems if you want agri.

System is COL 285 Sector CY-U B18-0

Even after all that work, you're still missing fish.
Agriculture is terribly disadvantaged by the most recent changes. It's as if the person who came up with the planetary influences and boosts/decreases wasn't aware of how agriculture interacted with other economies.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Agriculture is terribly disadvantaged by the most recent changes. It's as if the person who came up with the planetary influences and boosts/decreases wasn't aware of how agriculture interacted with other economies.

The entire set of changes puts in so many interactions of that sort that - while Agriculture of the primary production economies is most heavily affected - I think it's fairly clear that the aim of the change (corresponding to the week 1 loud requests from some players who had even less idea about how station economies worked) wasn't to produce economies which produced specific things but to ensure that all stations produced something.

Players asked Frontier to make coherent station economies impossible and Frontier have done just that.

 

[Rock Hunter]

So, our rejected second grade papers with an "F" are things we will regret for eternity...

Not if we believe FDev will implement some form of deconstruction. I certainly don’t believe they will…or that they can, at least without other serious consequences to their current building tree mechanic.

The entire set of changes puts in so many interactions of that sort that - while Agriculture of the primary production economies is most heavily affected - I think it's fairly clear that the aim of the change (corresponding to the week 1 loud requests from some players who had even less idea about how station economies worked) wasn't to produce economies which produced specific things but to ensure that all stations produced something.

Players asked Frontier to make coherent station economies impossible and Frontier have done just that.

My take from the hubbub was that many players seemed to want systems that were capable of producing pretty much everything. I’d always envisioned Colonisation requiring micro bubbles of economies to push forward. Now we have a fight on our hands to construct some order from near chaos, at least for now.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

My take from the hubbub was that many players seemed to want systems that were capable of producing pretty much everything.

We could have had that with the original design. Didn't even need a big system.

Other than Agricultural being impossible to get a single-type port it's still possible now with the right system layout and heavy use of decoy ports, and again doesn't require a particularly big system (with population and market sizes having grown to excessive levels, it really doesn't need a big system)

 

[Ned Flandalorian]

Just for the record, the specific problems that are putting agriculture at a disadvantage compared to other economies:

• It's the only one that is likely to be affected by a decrease condition. In fact it's basically the only one that can be decreased, since "a system with low or depleted resources" is the only condition applicable for other economies and that isn't likely to happen since candidate systems for colonization are practically all pristine.
• All of the planetary overrides for agriculture are paired with other economies. In the case of ELWs: 3 others. In the case of a water world: tourism, which automatically gets a boost to make it stronger. In the case of organics/biologicals: terraforming, plus whatever comes from the basic type of the body. In every case, the best possible outcome for the resulting agriculture economy is that it can only have equal strength to whatever it's paired with. There's no chance of it being dominant without building additional facilities. This is a problem since most of its commodities are consumed by "all but agriculture" - as soon as something else gets into the economy mix it starts eating away at production of the agriculture commodities.

 

[vuteq]

Just for the record, the specific problems that are putting agriculture at a disadvantage compared to other economies:

• It's the only one that is likely to be affected by a decrease condition. In fact it's basically the only one that can be decreased, since "a system with low or depleted resources" is the only condition applicable for other economies and that isn't likely to happen since candidate systems for colonization are practically all pristine.
• All of the planetary overrides for agriculture are paired with other economies. In the case of ELWs: 3 others. In the case of a water world: tourism, which automatically gets a boost to make it stronger. In the case of organics/biologicals: terraforming, plus whatever comes from the basic type of the body. In every case, the best possible outcome for the resulting agriculture economy is that it can only have equal strength to whatever it's paired with. There's no chance of it being dominant without building additional facilities. This is a problem since most of its commodities are consumed by "all but agriculture" - as soon as something else gets into the economy mix it starts eating away at production of the agriculture commodities.

It is even funnier i have ice body with 5 agri settlements (2 large + 3 small) + 1 planet port. On market it produces as food commodities only food cartiges, tho settlement switched to agriculture economy.
So everyting is fine as industrial (ice body) it produces frozen canned food ;-)

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Just for the record, the specific problems that are putting agriculture at a disadvantage compared to other economies:

• It's the only one that is likely to be affected by a decrease condition. In fact it's basically the only one that can be decreased, since "a system with low or depleted resources" is the only condition applicable for other economies and that isn't likely to happen since candidate systems for colonization are practically all pristine.
• All of the planetary overrides for agriculture are paired with other economies. In the case of ELWs: 3 others. In the case of a water world: tourism, which automatically gets a boost to make it stronger. In the case of organics/biologicals: terraforming, plus whatever comes from the basic type of the body. In every case, the best possible outcome for the resulting agriculture economy is that it can only have equal strength to whatever it's paired with. There's no chance of it being dominant without building additional facilities. This is a problem since most of its commodities are consumed by "all but agriculture" - as soon as something else gets into the economy mix it starts eating away at production of the agriculture commodities.

And additionally - high-tech has many of those two issues, though not quite as severe - there's nothing agricultural you can build with an intrinsic economy larger than an Odyssey settlement, whereas you can build intrinsic high-tech T1s that can ignore most of this in practice.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

It's as if the person who came up with the planetary influences and boosts/decreases wasn't aware of how agriculture interacted with other economies.

They have us for that...

 

[Capt. Hook]

There appears to be a bug where building a building with economy influence adds economy influence only after another building is built in the same local zone.
For that i opened an issue in the issue tracker, "Colonization economy influence is delayed when building influencers".

So if you happen to come across this behavior (e.g. you build Refinery + Space Farm, have 0.5 Refinery market, build another Refinery, have Refinery + agri), please take the time to add your experience to the issue. Thanks.

Issue Tracker

issues.frontierstore.net

Not sure if this is the same but I have a space port that has more refinery links both strong and weak yet is still an industrial economy. I guess it needs more refineries in the system?