Elite dangerous for Linux

Thanks for the Wall Of Text. You have some good points, but there is already a Linux version of ED/H which exists and is in use.

Sony had Frontier make one for the the Sony PS4 and it's Sony proprietary.

If Frontier has it ported for the PS4, then they could release a fork for PC.

PS4 runs Orbis OS, a modified version of FreeBSD that's similar to Linux.

It's a no-brainer for Frontier to give us a Linux version. Sony must be forbidding it in their proprietary agreement with Frontier.

Just es me off Frontier won't do this.

I could finally dump Windows if Frontier would give users a choice in which OS we want to use for ED/H.



But who is going to pay for that Linux version? Where is the economics of spending the time to write it, and then to maintain it?

Look at how many clients they have already,
PC
MAC
XBOX One
PS4

And No, WINE is NOT an Emulator.


But you are totally missing the point about the API's. It is the stuff programs uses to talk to hardware and system. Because you will not write your own USB protcol driver to talk to a Keybaord you rely on the OS to do that for you. So they do. And still you do not write your own listening code to talk directly to your keyboard, the operating system does that too, so it decodes the data arriving from your keyboard and let your program and others get the refined version of the data. Ontop of this, we usually get some other API's that are used by games, on Windows we have DirectInput as one option, there other options to use as well.
The same story goes for Sound, multiple layers of software before you program can use it.
Controllers, the same

Graphics, we have two standards, DirextX, and OpenGL/Vulkan.

Now examine these two and where can play Elite today.

Windows:
DirectX (uses)
Vulcan

XBOX One :
DirectX (uses)

PS4:
PS4 specific API (problably uses)
Vulcan, but not from the start

OSX:
OpenGL, but lacks certain functions, so no Horizon (uses)



And for comparison
Linux:
Vulkan
OpenGL


So they most likely are using 3 API's: DirectX, PS4 native and a limited OpenGL implementation

So now you want to add 4th API, Vulcan or full OpenGL. And rewriting any existing client to use Vulcan/OpenGL would require even more work, and the only benefit they could get from that is possibly removal of the PS4 native API.

Now, onto the Vulcan/DirectX 12 issues. These APIs are simpler than they predecesors, ie OpenGL and DirextX 11, as they do not contain as mush calls to alot of stuff, this is because many thinks that they can write better code to things that you need specifically for you game, and not have to implement support other uses for that function. And this should give us more performance, And yet when comparing performance between OpenGL/Vulcan or DirextX 11/12 they are about the same. And most of this is because the OpenGL and DirectX 11 was pretty optimized to begin with, so it takes alot of skills to optimize this by yourself, and even if you can write more optimized version than what OpenGL and DirectX 11 had, is the rest your code as optimized? probably not, as you are not writing that code... So bad coding practices is in most cases having ALOT more impact on performance than choosing between OpenGL/DirectX 11 or Vulcan/DirectX 12.


So it is bit more complicated


But why do you want a full fledged port in the first place? What do you think you would gain from that as compared to a working Wine version?
If you say better performance, then most of the time that is not true. Have a look at Phoronix site, they have done some great work at comparing performance between Linux and Windows and Windows client running on Linux using Wine. And the normal outcome is that native Linux client is generally the same the Windows client either on Windows or on Linux using Wine! and the only times I have seen a huge difference is when FPS goes crazy high, over 170 FPS. But then what effective difference does this make in the real world? do you have a monitor that show 170+ FPS?

Another interesting find Phoronix did, was that the use of older DirectX versions in Wine or older OpenGL versions where noticeably slower by running the Windows version in Wine. But this does not current games. but an interesting side note.


And I have seen atleast one game that did have native Linux support to scrap that client in support of actually running the Windows client via Wine, as that was actually faster and new fixes, patches etc always came to the Windows clients first and later to the Linux client. Now the Linux crowd got the same updates as the Windwos crowd, and it was tested and verified to run via Wine.


So from a business perspective, I think it would be more efficient to actually take the time to adapt the Windows versions to run via Wine on Linux than to write a "whole" new client. And after the initial learning curve for the limitations of Wine etc, any further maintenance would be more cost effective, as they are only maintaining one client, that runs on two platforms. And testing done from Phoronix suggests that there should not be any performance hit by doing it this way.



And I have totally avoided the dark pit of DRM and why that crap is in most cases totally incompatible with running stuff on Linux... and sadly DRM hurts the honest players on all platforms.
 
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Unfortunately. Elite on Linux through Steam's Proton will most likely not be supported by Frontier.

I also used Ubuntu 18.10/ Steam/Proton 3.17 and had the same problem. The only solution will be to run Elite in Windows, which is supported by Frontier.

Be well.




Hi,

First, thanks for your work on making Elite working on Linux, I have so much fun with it since I can play on my computer.
Everything work fine and run pretty ok with a 1050ti portable. However, I just found an issue. When I tried to access a base on a planet, the base seems to be in a hole and do not appears fully. If I request a docking station I have it but I cannot see it. Also, the "wall of the hole" are 'real', in the sense that I collide against them (see the linked picture)

When I launch Elite on the same laptop but with windows, I don't have this problem.

I use the last version of the patched proton given here (thanks again), and I use ubuntu 18.10 and the nvidia 415 (with a 1050ti). I am happy to provide more details if that can help.
 
Well, the noose is getting tighter on being forced into Windows 10, whether I like it or not.

In looking at the new Intel and Ryzen processors, as well as a replacement for my motherboard using the AM4 chipset, the new processors will NOT support Windows 7.

AMD says they will on certain Ryzen Processors, but reading about this on the web, and having the recommended processors, some state Windows 7 will not install and no drivers will be available for the newest Motherboards.

Of course, these same processors WILL support Ubuntu and other Linux Distros, but unless Frontier offers a version of Elite Dangerous for Linux, we will all be stuck on older hardware supporting Windows 7, or Windows 10 on newer hardware to run Elite.

It's only a matter of time now before (in my personal opinion) Windows 10 gets shoved down my throat. Well, it just won't happen. Given the choice between having to run Elite on Windows 10, or giving it up because of this, I will give Elite up rather than having Windows 10 on my box.

PLEASE Frontier, GIVE US ELITE ON LINUX, I will even pay for this game again if that what it takes. PLEASE.....
 
This is a different avenue of approach to getting Elite to run on a PC by using FreeBSD and a licensed copy of Elite for the Sony PS4.

In my research, I have found that you can run Linux (and PS4 already runs Orbis, a version of FreeBSD) on a PS4 with a bit of magic.

See https://news.softpedia.com/news/you-...w-520094.shtml

My thinking on this is to install FreeBSD on a PC, purchase a copy of Elite for the Sony PS4, and see if I can make it run.

This will be a legitimate path for running Elite on a PC running Linux, with a copy of Elite licensed by Frontier.

As a Linux developer, I think this is possible. Furthermore, I think it would be possible to "simulate" a PS4's OS on a PC and run a Licensed copy of Frontier's Elite designed for PS4. In this way, Frontier may offer support for Elite PS4 as opposed to no support for Elite running under Linux Wine or Proton. At least it would be a better solution than what we are trying to do now.

Another method for running PS4 games on a PC, which would be totally legitimate, is to use PS4 Streaming to a PC, which means you could stream Elite from a PS4 to your PC.

See https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/ex.../ps-now-on-pc/

Since Elite for PS4 was developed and designed to run on a version of Linux called FreeBSD and the PS4 runs Orbis (a version of FreeBSD), this may be more a more reasonable solution than trying to run the PC version of Elite on Linux using Wine or Proton.

See https://www.quora.com/Would-it-be-po...on-a-custom-PC

Some friends of mine who use Ubuntu and regularly file bugs in support of the Linux community as a whole have volunteered their expertise in looking into the possibilities of simulating a PS4 OS on a PC.


Given Steam is making a great effort to get Windows games working on Linux platforms with Proton, Frontier must see the writing on wall. Why would commanders spend their time, effort, resources, skills and expertise to do this if it was not wanted by many commanders.

Of course, I would jump at the opportunity to purchase a supported Linux version of Elite, for the sole reason of dumping Windows. To make matters worse, Most of the new hardware and processors from Intel and AMD will no longer support Windows 7, but only Windows 10. How many commanders now grimace at the thought of being forced onto Windows 10, just to play Elite. How many users who will not do this, look for ways to make Elite run on Linux, whatever it takes?
 
This is a different avenue of approach to getting Elite to run on a PC by using FreeBSD and a licensed copy of Elite for the Sony PS4.

In my research, I have found that you can run Linux (and PS4 already runs Orbis, a version of FreeBSD) on a PS4 with a bit of magic.

See https://news.softpedia.com/news/you-...w-520094.shtml

My thinking on this is to install FreeBSD on a PC, purchase a copy of Elite for the Sony PS4, and see if I can make it run.

This will be a legitimate path for running Elite on a PC running Linux, with a copy of Elite licensed by Frontier.

As a Linux developer, I think this is possible. Furthermore, I think it would be possible to "simulate" a PS4's OS on a PC and run a Licensed copy of Frontier's Elite designed for PS4. In this way, Frontier may offer support for Elite PS4 as opposed to no support for Elite running under Linux Wine or Proton. At least it would be a better solution than what we are trying to do now.

Another method for running PS4 games on a PC, which would be totally legitimate, is to use PS4 Streaming to a PC, which means you could stream Elite from a PS4 to your PC.

See https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/ex.../ps-now-on-pc/

Since Elite for PS4 was developed and designed to run on a version of Linux called FreeBSD and the PS4 runs Orbis (a version of FreeBSD), this may be more a more reasonable solution than trying to run the PC version of Elite on Linux using Wine or Proton.

See https://www.quora.com/Would-it-be-po...on-a-custom-PC

Some friends of mine who use Ubuntu and regularly file bugs in support of the Linux community as a whole have volunteered their expertise in looking into the possibilities of simulating a PS4 OS on a PC.


Given Steam is making a great effort to get Windows games working on Linux platforms with Proton, Frontier must see the writing on wall. Why would commanders spend their time, effort, resources, skills and expertise to do this if it was not wanted by many commanders.

Of course, I would jump at the opportunity to purchase a supported Linux version of Elite, for the sole reason of dumping Windows. To make matters worse, Most of the new hardware and processors from Intel and AMD will no longer support Windows 7, but only Windows 10. How many commanders now grimace at the thought of being forced onto Windows 10, just to play Elite. How many users who will not do this, look for ways to make Elite run on Linux, whatever it takes?

You have to account for the proprietary graphics API that Sony is using. GNM (low level) and GNMX (high level, that utilizes GNM). Then we have the Pixel Shaders, if Elite uses these, then you need to solve the support for PSSL.



Have you looked at this project? https://github.com/AlexAltea/orbitaljoin this project. https://github.com/AlexAltea/orbital
So they are working on all these things, and their goal is to be able to run this on Windows, Linux and OSX
 
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Yes, I have seen those projects and I am playing with Alex's Playstation emulation. It looks like a pain right now, but worth exploring.

I'm also heavily working with Steam's Proton to get Elite to play there. Many new Processors now won't support W7, only W10, so I need a soluion before I can upgrade hardware.

It's rapidly coming down to Elite on W10 or buy a console. Neither will I do. Frontier has ported it to Linux on PS4 and Sony restricted PS4 (Orbis) to set hardware architecture and (as you mentioned) proprietary graphics API.

We can beat our heads with Linux Wine and Proton and we can experiment with Playstation emulation, but in the end, only a full port of Elite for Linux will make everyone happy.

Given future hardware restrictions on anything but W10 and Ubuntu for processors, M$ has finally found a way to shove W10 and it's restrictive and abusive EULA down everyone's throat who wants to run Elite, or other Windows only games.


You have to account for the proprietary graphics API that Sony is using. GNM (low level) and GNMX (high level, that utilizes GNM). Then we have the Pixel Shaders, if Elite uses these, then you need to solve the support for PSSL.



Have you looked at this project? https://github.com/AlexAltea/orbitaljoin this project. https://github.com/AlexAltea/orbital
So they are working on all these things, and their goal is to be able to run this on Windows, Linux and OSX
 
If native support is not the key then people had quite some luck with running ED under linux, especially with SteamPlay and Proton.
See for Yourself
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJA5AjrIpWQ

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tXWrlC4-zQ

WineHQ shows a little lower degree of success

All in all ED looks playable if You are willing.

Good luck Commander.
 
That's your opinion and I consider it flame bait in a thread on getting the game working in Linux. Thanks for your input.
This isn't merely a thread about getting ED to run on Linux (which can be done with a bit of research and persistence), it's a thread about petitioning FDev for a Linux-specific version.

This will detract development resources from the numerous already-extant ED versions, and for the sake of a very niche subset of users.

My post was not flame bait; it was not uninformed; it was not wrong. You might not like it, but that has no bearing upon its relevance here.

Unix user here, by the way. I have used both SuSE and Redhat extensively, and a couple other specialty Unix installs.

Edit: Hmm, in all fairness I can see that my original post wasn't particularly helpful. I should have posted the things I posted here there.
 
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You'd be better of dual booting your PC with Windows and Linux. I doubt FD will put the manpower behind making another version of the game to maintain.

I'm quite surprised FD are not dropping support for Apple, as it seems Apple do not want to actually make a useful PC ever. Lol

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
They dropped support for appple with 3.0
 
You'd be better of dual booting your PC with Windows and Linux. I doubt FD will put the manpower behind making another version of the game to maintain.

I'm quite surprised FD are not dropping support for Apple, as it seems Apple do not want to actually make a useful PC ever. Lol

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
Dual boot is OK, running virtual machines on a Windows desktop via something like VMWare is better, if your PC can handle it.

On my old PC I tinkered with both dual boot setups and VMWare, and found VMWare to be vastly superior; you can run another OS in a window. I had a virtual machine for SuSE Linux back then (as well as all the old Windows versions I've previously used, all the way back to Win 3.11).
 
This isn't merely a thread about getting ED to run on Linux (which can be done with a bit of research and persistence), it's a thread about petitioning FDev for a Linux-specific version.

This will detract development resources from the numerous already-extant ED versions, and for the sake of a very niche subset of users.

My post was not flame bait; it was not uninformed; it was not wrong. You might not like it, but that has no bearing upon its relevance here.

Unix user here, by the way. I have used both SuSE and Redhat extensively, and a couple other specialty Unix installs.

Edit: Hmm, in all fairness I can see that my original post wasn't particularly helpful. I should have posted the things I posted here there.
SuSE & Redhat are not Unix.
Also, you better tell Sony that they're doing it wrong.
 
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