Elite Dangerous is not a sandbox

[Sisyphus]

They will of course continue to play the way they do now as there are no corporations, no crafting and no player control of stations, planets, systems, etc.

They may not wish to participate in these activities however I don't think that they would be unaffected by them - the goal of a corporation is to dominate.

The goal of any game is to dominate it - many consider "success" synonymous with domination and that's not always a bad thing. I think you're more concerned about players dominating your gameplay - that is, you won't be able to do combat, trade or explore the way you do now because player owned corporations (or empires) have... done something to impede trading, exploring or combat. I don't see HOW player corps or empires would impede your gameplay though.

And even if they did, the galaxy is big enough for everyone to play in different areas.

 

[Tobytyke1972]

You know where there is a galaxy where you can dominate, Its called EvE. You might want to give it a try.

It sounds like ED is not and will never be for you, unless they change the whole gaming model to fit your style of play.

 

[Robert Maynard]

The goal of any game is to dominate it - many consider "success" synonymous with domination and that's not always a bad thing. I think you're more concerned about players dominating your gameplay - that is, you won't be able to do combat, trade or explore the way you do now because player owned corporations (or empires) have... done something to impede trading, exploring or combat. I don't see HOW player corps or empires would impede your gameplay though.

And even if they did, the galaxy is big enough for everyone to play in different areas.

I would be quite amazed for any corporation to dominate a significant portion of the in-game galaxy....

I don't think that I am alone in being quite glad that corporations are not in the game proposal.

If corporations want to dominate, who exactly are they trying to dominate? That's why I am concerned as to their effects on gameplay.

 

[Sisyphus]

Out of interest, what was your opinion on the Incarna thing?

I think it had its ups and downs. On the one hand, walking about in the ship doesn't do much for me other than to add a pretty cosmetic feature. But the other stuff that came with it was helpful for new players.

 

[Cosmo Bozo]

I don't get why people think that the latest in a game series that has never had capital ships, empire building, fleet management, crafting etc... needs all those things because a game in a different series has them

It just sounds like the kind of publisher meddling that frontier wanted to avoid to me...
1984: "other games have 3 lives and a score, elite needs 3 lives and a score."

I'd much rather they focus on doing the core game of being a pilot, and expand on the more personal features, such as avatars and planetary landings which is what they are doing, than simply tread the same path as those before, in an attempt to make all games the same.

I'm not actually against adding those things, but I think they should do what they set out to do first, that stuff can come later.

 

[Sisyphus]

I would be quite amazed for any corporation to dominate a significant portion of the in-game galaxy....

I don't think that I am alone in being quite glad that corporations are not in the game proposal.

If corporations want to dominate, who exactly are they trying to dominate? That's why I am concerned as to their effects on gameplay.

The idea is that by crafting lots of ships (for example), you could supply even an NPC empire with an armada to attack other empires! And it doesn't need to be achievable by just one person - it should be tied to the efforts of, say a 100 players working together. I don't think that will ruin anyone's game STYLE.

 

[Oddball]

I am pretty sure Frontier said that the game won't allow players to build empires.

That is correct. DB had stated that this won't happen because the game will be like playing with a spread sheet in front of you and that is not what Elite is all about. Elite is mainly about the flying experience.

So to your original statement of 'Elite Dangerous is not a sandbox'....

In this context I would agree. However, I'd rather play Elite Dangerous the way it is meant to be played rather than playing a sandbox game that is controlled from a spread sheet.

 

[Teefur]

I don't see HOW player corps or empires would impede your gameplay though.

And even if they did, the galaxy is big enough for everyone to play in different areas.

Until the Corporations and Empires have expanded out further pushing those of us who are looking for the "lone pilot making his way in the world" experience are pushed further and further out to the fringes until there's nowhere left to go. Then what?

 

[Dirtmuncher]

Did you expect me to suddenly start believing ED is a sandbox game just because some people here were being sarcastic to me? I don't give up my rationality so easily.

Its a true Sisyphus struggle, am i right?

 

[Sisyphus]

You know where there is a galaxy where you can dominate, Its called EvE. You might want to give it a try.

It sounds like ED is not and will never be for you, unless they change the whole gaming model to fit your style of play.

Again, the game doesn't need to remove anything it has, in order to add more sandbox features to it. For example, how about a totally player driven market? You can still trade, explore and fight, the way you can do now. The only thing this "changes", is to add ONE more feature to its list. Can you be happy if that makes more than you happy, or must you insist that others be deprived of desired features because you are satisfied with what is present right now?

 

[worthy1066]

http://www.techopedia.com/definition/3952/sandbox-gaming

nuff said

 

[Sisyphus]

Its a true Sisyphus struggle, am i right?

It indeed is a Sisyphean task. The others should have looked up my name before expecting me to change my mind.

 

[Lobster]

Elite is Elite. It doesn't have to be anything else. If that isn't the game for you, then it isn't the game for you. Trying to please everyone and do everything just leads to diluted homogenization.

The developers have made it pretty clear that they don't want players to have external concerns, or investments outside of their ship. The game focuses on being an independent pilot. It's about your own ship, and your own path, not the lives of other players or groups. ED will never have vast player run industries or remotely controlled empires, because it just isn't what the game is about.

Eve online has an excellent backbone of player run organizations, and vast networks of industry, but the solo game is bloody terrible Playing by yourself in EvE means that you will always be behind the players that don't, you will never have the biggest ship, and be completely shut out of a lot of the content. For the group system to matter, the individual has to be inferior, otherwise the groups would have no value, and that's important in EvE, and works well there.

As for crafting, it wouldn't hurt anything, but I personally find personal crafting systems to be a pointless stopgap in obtaining items. Why spend all that time gathering four specific components to make a sword, when you could just kill a bandit and take his? Unless the crafted sword is better than the bandit's sword, but then you are saying that I have to craft to have the best items in the game. I dunno, I know a lot of people like that stuff, but I can't stand it.

It all comes down to taste at the end of the day, but I am pretty happy with the direction ED is going in.

 

[Patrick_68000]

And even if Ed is not considered as a sandbox game, there is no problem. All that we ask, it is ED is a worthy successor to the Elite series. And the beginnings are very promising

 

[Sisyphus]

That is correct. DB had stated that this won't happen because the game will be like playing with a spread sheet in front of you and that is not what Elite is all about. Elite is mainly about the flying experience.

So to your original statement of 'Elite Dangerous is not a sandbox'....

In this context I would agree. However, I'd rather play Elite Dangerous the way it is meant to be played rather than playing a sandbox game that is controlled from a spread sheet.

I can respect the fact that you finally agree with me!

Yes, elite is more of a combat space simulator with added open world features. On the sliding scale of sanboxes, it rates pretty low.

I would go ahead and disagree with you about reducing my requested features to just a "spreadsheet", but I would just be repeating the many benefits from having a sandbox game - i've mentioned them throughout this thread as I defended my point of view here.

 

[tooterfish]

So what's your rationalisation for how a group of a hundred people could outproduce a society of trillions?

The given fluff for why that can happen in EvE is that pod pilots are special snowflakes. In Elite, you're not a special snowflake, sorry to break it to you.

Just because you can't run an intergalactic empire in Elite doesn't mean there are fewer meaningful interactions and decisions, it just means that their nature is different. Big surprise, it's because Elite is a different game, with a different focus.

If I wanted to play EvE (again), I'd buy EvE. I bought Elite.

 

[worthy1066]

I'd say in basic term's that a sandbox game ,no matter what stage it is set in doesn't have a pre determined structure to the game but lets the player decide at what point he/she decides to complete a route/mission/skill/ and how they go about it......this to me elite does VERY WELL

 

[Sisyphus]

Elite is Elite. It doesn't have to be anything else. If that isn't the game for you, then it isn't the game for you. Trying to please everyone and do everything just leads to diluted homogenization.

The developers have made it pretty clear that they don't want players to have external concerns, or investments outside of their ship. The game focuses on being an independent pilot. It's about your own ship, and your own path, not the lives of other players or groups. ED will never have vast player run industries or remotely controlled empires, because it just isn't what the game is about.

Eve online has an excellent backbone of player run organizations, and vast networks of industry, but the solo game is bloody terrible Playing by yourself in EvE means that you will always be behind the players that don't, you will never have the biggest ship, and be completely shut out of a lot of the content. For the group system to matter, the individual has to be inferior, otherwise the groups would have no value, and that's important in EvE, and works well there.

As for crafting, it wouldn't hurt anything, but I personally find personal crafting systems to be a pointless stopgap in obtaining items. Why spend all that time gathering four specific components to make a sword, when you could just kill a bandit and take his? Unless the crafted sword is better than the bandit's sword, but then you are saying that I have to craft to have the best items in the game. I dunno, I know a lot of people like that stuff, but I can't stand it.

It all comes down to taste at the end of the day, but I am pretty happy with the direction ED is going in.

You make good points and perhaps it is a better idea for ED to continue along its current path. Maybe. I'm skeptical though, of how interesting the game will remain.

 

[Daeron]

I hope they never enable player controlled Empires in Elite Dangerous, it is a bit like being told to go to your own corner in the sandbox, and stay there. The format of predefined NPC Empires provide you with opportunities to stomp around a lot more, without being forced into a tactical choice by the laws of necessity, and player dominance. I don't see that as very "sandboxy", for it take away pieces of your playground.

Predefined Empires like in Planetside, is also more lore friendly. No "Smurfs" or whatever, telling you to go there and do this, or else you're going to be expelled and eaten by Gargamel.

And Skyrim is a very limited game, you can't even leave the province, unlike in Daggerfall. That's TES: II. Before they invented tiny gameworlds, with more walls than China ever had.

 

[Tobytyke1972]

Again, the game doesn't need to remove anything it has, in order to add more sandbox features to it. For example, how about a totally player driven market? You can still trade, explore and fight, the way you can do now. The only thing this "changes", is to add ONE more feature to its list. Can you be happy if that makes more than you happy, or must you insist that others be deprived of desired features because you are satisfied with what is present right now?

Naturally it removes an aspect of the game. It prevents solo and non-corporation alined players from using the name sectors. Because while it day one it will all be nice and free but it wouldn't take too long before corporations so controlling areas and unless you conform to their ideas there's no reason to be there.

This would intern push people out the game thus dooming it.

Please remember the mission statement from Elite.

1 spaceship and 100crs.

The whole game is designed for you to be part of the engine not controlling it.