Elite: Dangerous is seriously underrated

[Old Duck]

too long to read,

Are you saying ED fanatics are lazy?

 

[Arkadi]

Are you saying ED fanatics are lazy?

eh.. I am saying: i like combat zones.... and Rimworld. And RdR1 was not good enough for me to buy RdR2

 

[Enderby]

Overated by a few underated by everyone else

 

[WinterKing2112]

While earlier in the thread I agree with ED being underrated, and I maintain that in some regards, I'll also say it is highly overrated, at least by many in this forum.

I finally got Red Dead Redemption 2 for my humble PS4 Slim, and holy cow mother of impressive graphics does it look good! All you loons saying "ED needs a PC to have decent graphics because it's so demanding" are wrong. Well technically you're right, but this is not something to take pride in, but rather to be ashamed of. RDR2 looks freaking AMAZING on my PS4. I'm not just talking shadows, but draw distance, reflections, volumetric wind-driven fog and mist with godrays (which supposedly requires a high-end PC to pull off in ED), antialiasing, physics, etc.

I could also compare the game itself to ED, but I think the genres are different enough that such a comparison might not be fair. That's why I'm comparing presentation to presentation, and ED really is overrated when it comes to graphical presentation. Even the sound department is overrated. I'm not saying the sound is bad, it's great. But so is the sound in many games. The sound and "voice comms" in RDR2 is spectacular, so saying ED has the best sound department in the industry is highly exaggerated.

One area ED does excel on the console is customization of controls and use of things like gyroscopic headlook. No other game I own has this flexibility, and whoever originally ported ED to console controllers (particularly the Dualshock for PS4) deserves a trophy.

Now if you think I'm just shredding ED with nothing good to say, see my previous posts to this thread. I'm just bringing some balance to the argument.

ED looks bloody good on my 1X, and I don't even have a 4K tv.

 

[WinterKing2112]

too long to read,

but holy crap, I downloaded rim world - and the graphics were not shattering me. But the gameplay is really really immersive and has lot's of depth and is engaging and hilarious and grand.

But ED has that relaxing combat zones. I love to mediate in those. I just can't go back to mediate in the woods anyomre. I need ED combat zones.

Combat zones..... relaxing? What are you flying?

 

[Arkadi]

Combat zones..... relaxing? What are you flying?

I relax best in the middle of a fight
With my Python the level of difficulty seems just about right to enjoy a good combat-zone.

 

[Mimix]

I actually think that Elite Dangerous is heavily Overrated.

Dont get me wrong there.
Its nice that the Ship in this Game can effectively go wherever it wants.

But if everything is the same with little to nothing to do where you go.
Then the whole Deal is Off.


Elite Dangerous tries to be a Gigantic Sandbox.
But the Box is the Size of Public Swimming Pool. While the Sand in it is barely enough to Fill a Bathtube...


Thats what they got by having the whole thing Random Generated.
A Random Generated World can be Endless in Size. But as anything Generated by it is Limited by the Parameters you Input into the Random Generator. You will end up with an Endless World that is more or less the same wherever you go.

Thats why using a World Generator is only useful when you use it to Create a Base for the World and then Fill that World with Handcrafted Elements that make each part of it Unique.
But in ED this is Impossible. The Generated World is just too Large for anyone to even Dream about Filling it with Handcrafted Elements and making each part Unique. Even Dreaming about just making 1% of the World Unique by Handcrafting Content for it would be entirely Insane.

For Elite Dangerous the only way to be an Interesting Game is to Abandon the World and instead Focus on Ships and Empire Building.
Player Owned Stations, Fleets and Clans, Proper Wars about Territory instead of Generic Conflict Zones, Fleshed out Planets including Planetary Settlements and Proper World Design, Larger Ships that are more than Oversized Fighters, Proper Crew Mechanics, Ship Interior and Space Legs, Proper Ground Vehicles, Proper and more Diverse Weapon Systems which are not Defaulted to 1 out of 3 Systems.

Instead of Focusing on the World. Where even 20 Years of Work will remain a Droplet in the oversized Bucket. They should Try and Improve the Detailed Systems of the Game to Give Players something to do in this Sandbox.
This Oversized but Empty World is the First Time in History that a Game actually has a World where it could Allow Players and Clans to Own entire Star Systems and Stations in a Multiplayer Game. Without having to Worry that the Game World will be Spammed to Death by Player Owned Structures due to there being too many Player Structures in a too Small World.


But FD isnt doing any of this.
FD instead is absolutely Determined to Focus on their Giant Dead World Instead. And keep adding Fractions of Droplets to the Bucket hoping that one day they might reach a Droplet Big enough make a difference.

And thats why this Game is Overrated.
Everyone tries to Sell this Game by mentioning its Gigantic World.
While Leisurely Ignoring that this World is basicly just a Gigantic Piece of Copypasted RNG Solar Systems which ultimately all look roughly the same after a month or two playing this Game.

I wouldn't say it's copied and pasted. How do you think the perfect space simulator looks like? Do you think there would be a big difference between all the solar systems? I understand that space games are not for everyone - they tend to be "repetitive" and don't have a lot of action compared to CoD and other games which spoon-feed you rewards and thrill. Don't get me wrong, I too have a lot of questions for Frontier regarding Elite, but I am happy with this game in general. I haven't encountered a lot of bugs, and, having played Elite from almost its release date, I experienced problems with the server only 3 times. I feel that there's plenty to do in the game - whenever I feel bored of doing passenger runs, I take a trip to the centre of the galaxy (the views out there are amazing).

Yes, you can't walk around or do atmospheric landings, but I feel that these would eventually come. For example, if you setup the free camera correctly, and fly around the station, you can see all the detail - staircases, industrial zones, paths to landing pads - this indicates that Frontier kept space legs in mind while designing all of this.

I respect the ability to be free and go anywhere I like in Elite, and there is no forced storyline, I make my story myself. I agree with the OP's view of the game being underrated, but I predict that it will gain popularity - now that Frontier is focusing its updates on new players and introduction to the game. Good luck out in space!

 

[Viajero]

All you loons saying "ED needs a PC to have decent graphics because it's so demanding" are wrong.

Elite demanding? that would be a first. Maybe in VR.

I would say it is probably one of the most optimized sim experiences out there.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbJ738KmJLY

 

[Mimix]

Elite demanding? that would be a first. Maybe in VR.

I would say it is probably one of the most optimized sim experiences out there.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbJ738KmJLY

Agree with you. Elite runs nicely on all my computers, including VR.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Like every game Elite Dangerous has its shortcomings but for me pros outrun cons. Ok it IS bit grindy, ok Galaxy is largely empty, some players are jerks (at least in game). But on pros side: We have galaxy as near "real thing" as modern game technology reasonably can produce, wide variety of ships, possible playstyles, a lots of beautifull scenes. It does not cost arm and leg (unlike certain perpetually at alpha stage "game"), and runs on pretty reasonably machines nicely. My rig runs it acceptably to me (4-th gen i5 GTX 950, 1920x1080).

 

[Guest193293]

lol I don't actually read useless posts from trolls and salty people since they are in my ignore list but I can guess what they say from you guys quotes..and damn it is well funny, I'm actually having a good laugh and I'm mocking them hahah!!!

 

[TiberiusDuval]

ED is a low-brow arcade game, incapable of any kind of basic space flight. No ship in ED - even "fully engineered" (cough ahem) - could replicate any real mission that's ever flown since Sputnik.

In the absence of any basic freedom to control one's own ship, the devs have substituted in an arcade mini-game they call "FA-off", purely to provide some kind of 'skill' to practice in place of any basic practical 'spaceflight' controls.

ED fans are generally incapable of understanding that there are six degrees of freedom, and that 'spaceflight' is principally concerned with controlling (ie. "piloting") motion in all three spatial planes - that freedom of linear motion is kind of the defining principle of 'spaceflight' - the whole point (much less fun) of any such skills are completely beyond them. They do know from sci-fi tropes however that in space everything happens in slo-mo, and objects without angular stability control tend to tumble, hence they're all delighted and enchanted with the much-more spacey-feeling task of controlling their ship in the angular axes instead; for linear motion there's always airbrake mo- i mean, 'supercruise'.

ED could be the beginnings of an awesome game if only it allowed pilots to control their own ships - to literally fly them in any way they please - whilst respecting the basic principles of motion.. but at present it doesn't do either of these things..

Yes physics model is not very near to real world, speeds are capped in "normal space mode" and so on. And there is that "supercruise". Well do you happen to understand how mindbogglingly big star systems are, even our solar system? It would take days and weeks of real time to traverse if we limit ships from doing supercruise and no fast-time as it is multiplayer. Frontier and Frontier First Encounters got away by using time acceleration, and being no multiplayer games. And fights, well either you would have long range weapons and fights would happen at radar screen, not in visual range, or they would be nearly unplayable jousts between ships having speed differences at multiple kilometers per second.

 

[deckroid]

Under or Over... since time immemorial (Ok, December 2014) that question has been asked by many keen minds. Often, when one side is taken by the OP... there is a knee-jerk reaction to poo-poo said stance and evidence to the contrary is given. Some LOVE the game. Some HATE the game. Some RAGE QUIT over it. Some do DEEP DIVES over it and work out all the ins and outs of the BackGroundSimulation. And, evidently, some have taken to CHEATING the game.

To me, it's not about you or your stance taken. It's not about the statement "mile wide, inch deep". It's not about how this is the "biggest and best Space Sim ever". It's not about what was promised or delivered or any of that. It is all about Me. What do I like and what do I enjoy. What I like isn't always liked by others. Some like vanilla ice cream others chocolate and others don't like ice cream at all.

 

[Guest193293]

Jynessa Loraeyn, r/EliteDangerous - 2 years ago.

I was playing in standard beta. And yet when I play now, I still have moments of shock at some of the things happening around me in game.

The 1:1 scale galaxy we have right now still stuns me when I think about it. The sheer quantity of data in the galaxy map, the actually functioning orbits and planet rotations that you can observe in real time, the glorious daunting beauty of it all... and when I realised the starfield I saw in each system was correct... that each star I saw was in the right place around me and I could even select them and single them out using my ship's navigation computer... that I could sit at a station and watch the planets and moons dance around their sun... sit in a planetary port and watch that sun rise and set... that achievement alone deserves to be commemorated.

But on top of that there's a flight model that is absolutely to die for. The sheer visceral joy of flying your ship, a ship that handles like it has weight, that puts enough realism on the back burner to give an experience that feels like some insane cross between World War 2 dogfighting, Star Wars space combat and a strategy game where every few seconds you are called on to make some desperate life-and-death decision that is nuanced by timing, judgement and experience. Use chaff... now. Hit silent running... now. Keep the engine capacitor up, but bleed enough into the weapon capacitor to fire everything when the target comes into view. Frontier learned 20 years ago about the limits of realism when it came to fun combat gameplay... an advantage of painful experience that they drew lessons from.

Those knife-fights in the void and through planetary rings just got more and more ridiculously fun the more I played. I started reading about fighter tactics in the age of dogfighting. I tried using evasive manoeuvres described in them, and they worked. I discovered lead, pure and lag pursuits and found out they actually helped me keep my nose on targets in the game. Until one day I found myself trying to out-turn an enemy while we were drifting through the rings of a planet, saw him doing the same and realised we were executing a rolling scissors manoeuvre against each other, both with shields down, with pretty much instant death for the first person whose roll intersected with an asteroid.

I still remember the pure pounding joy of that moment. I felt like my heart was going to explode.

The appearance of this game is simply astonishing. Frontier seem to have started with the philosophy that they want above all else to make you feel like you are sitting in the cockpit of a ship. Have you seen the texturing in the ship cockpits? Or on the ship exterior? I can see where the paint has dried unevenly on the metal when a star's light reflects off it. It's absurd. And the look of everything else is absurdly beautiful. There's a reason it's become a running joke that half the posts on the front page are of players who just want to share an incredible screenshot they've taken.

And as for the sound... well.

Frankly, the sound design in this game... I don't think I can say anything that does it justice.

If I say that it's literally the most immersive, most beautifully detailed and realised sound design I have ever heard in any game (maybe anywhere, music, movie, anything), then that just seems flat compared to how I feel about it.

Think about this. Every single ship has its own look. Every single ship has its own flight model. It handles differently. It flies differently. It handles power differently.

But the sound... every single ship sounds different. And I don't mean just an engine noise. The noise each ship makes is unique based on which controls you are applying at any time. Pitch, yaw, roll, accelerate, declerate, vertical thrust, horizontal thrust... even the boost. And they're not just one sound. They vary in how they change as you move from full thrust to none. And then on top of that there are 'sweeteners', sounds unique to each ship.

In this game, you can close your eyes and know what flight control you're applying by just listening. You can know what ship you're flying just by listening.

It still completely blows me away.

And then... you listen to planets. Stations. Different parts of each station. The background radiation of the galaxy rumbles. The sound of the discovery scanner echoing into the void. The scan of a planet or sun making a shimmery sound as it nears completion. The little clicks of your scope as it picks up and loses contacts. The varying pitch of a multicannon as it spins up. The juddering spin-down of your frame shift drive as you finish a jump. The sharp snap when a distant ship jumps away.

It's so beautiful.

Their attention to these details even extended to the SRV.

It still seems almost insane what we got with the Scarab. By all rights, they should have made some simple thing for driving around planets.

Instead we got this... piece of utter perfection. It looks glorious - fragile, bug-like, its wheels on legs to give high ground clearance. The more I drove it, the more I realised that an entire driving model had been built for it, rewarding skill, varying your throttle, controlling skids. And the detail inside that little bubble of a cockpit. On the wheels. The lights. And the sounds. Oh god the sounds.

The biting of tires into dust or ice... you can listen and know which. That little electric drive whirring and straining its little heart out to do what you want it to. The sound when you roll is like a fibreglass boat hull being thrown across the ground. The creak and strains with every shift of weight.

And then the tracks.

I was on an ice world, with the sun low and behind me. I was driving too fast, lost control and skidded around. A cloud of white ice dust flew up around me, but what captivated me was here and there a couple of tiny ice flakes flew up in 0.1G and drifted down right in front of the cockpit. And when the cloud cleared, I looked back along my tracks and the sun glistened on the raised parts of them, while all around me ice glittered or glowed blue within from the shadows.

I am still absolutely staggered by the level of detail they put into the SRV. It's better than any driving game I know. And it really should have just been a small side project. I've found that if one spinning tire hits the ground after jumping, it spins you exactly like it should. I've found you can twist your tires back and forth to climb slopes you can't in a straight line.

But here's the thing...

Unlike any other driving game, I can take that perfect little buggy to any of millions of worlds, and drive on each. I can pick any spot on those worlds and land on it and drive where I like.

That is insane.

And getting to the point... that's why I agree. That's why I loved it when Sandro said in the streams that they have nothing to show yet about any further SRV's.

I'm half-convinced that one of the reasons 2.1 took so long was perfecting the Scarab.

And if that's what they do when they want to make a ground vehicle... I want them to take all the time they need when they do it again. I don't want them to rush. I want them to do the amazing, absurd thing they did when they were just designing the tiny little ground vehicle you drop out of your ship onto planets.

I will wait. Whatever imperfections there are in the game (like releasing Engineers without module storage, for example), for me they're massively outweighed by what they've already done.

To me, they've proved they can do what doesn't just seem impossible, but beyond comprehension. They said way back that they wanted to take their time and do it properly. And I can see it. It's like watching a canvas of some colossal painting being slowly filled in with the most detailed brushwork imaginable, and as you step back, you take in the vision that is their aim and your heart just jumps. They've earned my trust with what they've given me so far many times over.

In the meantime, I'll just keep playing the most perfect recreation of the original Elite game there is. I'll keep flying. And I'll be looking forward to watching each part of that canvas being filled in.

 

[Sunleader]

I wouldn't say it's copied and pasted. How do you think the perfect space simulator looks like? Do you think there would be a big difference between all the solar systems? I understand that space games are not for everyone - they tend to be "repetitive" and don't have a lot of action compared to CoD and other games which spoon-feed you rewards and thrill. Don't get me wrong, I too have a lot of questions for Frontier regarding Elite, but I am happy with this game in general. I haven't encountered a lot of bugs, and, having played Elite from almost its release date, I experienced problems with the server only 3 times. I feel that there's plenty to do in the game - whenever I feel bored of doing passenger runs, I take a trip to the centre of the galaxy (the views out there are amazing).

Yes, you can't walk around or do atmospheric landings, but I feel that these would eventually come. For example, if you setup the free camera correctly, and fly around the station, you can see all the detail - staircases, industrial zones, paths to landing pads - this indicates that Frontier kept space legs in mind while designing all of this.

I respect the ability to be free and go anywhere I like in Elite, and there is no forced storyline, I make my story myself. I agree with the OP's view of the game being underrated, but I predict that it will gain popularity - now that Frontier is focusing its updates on new players and introduction to the game. Good luck out in space!

1.
Actually Yes lol.
Solar Systems have a HUGE Variety in Reality.
Now for Fairness Said. This is the only Area where ED is not that Bad.
Mostly because they allow the RNG to really go to Town here.

But even so. The Options in the Game are Insanely Limited.

A.
The Biggest Issue with Solar Systems in ED.
Is that ED is absolutely Ignoring the Age of the Solar Systems.

So even in the Stellar Forge where Stars have just Formed.
The Systems are basicly completely Clean with Planets having Formed already and already being fully Round etc etc.
No Accretion Discs. No Debris Fields.
Normally these Systems should be Chaos and Filled with Debris and Dust which has not yet been fully Captured by the Gravity of a larger Object or has not yet been absorbed into an Larger Object.
Discs should still be rather Big and Chaotic and there should be alot of Objects not yet having Reached an Orbit around the Central Plane of of that Star.

In ED Unfortunately. Systems are always already in Stabilized State.
And thus do not have such Features anymore.

B.
Minor Issues are that there is a lack of Smaller Objects such as Asteroids and Planetoids.
Which only got a few thousand Meters in Diameter.
(We also got no Real Asteroid Belts for the Suns instead only having like 20-50 Floating Asteroids Scattered around in small Groups instead.)
As well as an lack of Events and Reminders of Events.
We dont have any Deformed Planets or Moons which due to lack of Gravity are not Rounded. We dont have any Planet Debris from Collissions in the Past or due to being Impacted by something bigger.
Even in the cases where we got Planets without Atmosphere which got Hit by an Asteroid as we can see from a Crater. We have not a Single Planet where this is displayed as having Happened within the last 10k Years.
Thus everything has Settled and Rounded up already. When in Reality Planets with no Atmosphere but High Gravity. Should most of the Time have alot of Fresh Impact Sites as they often get Hit several Times each Year by smaller stuff. And out of a Million of them At least one should have had a Large Impact lately. Leaving Huge Cracks and Debris Orbiting the Planet etc.


2.
I am mostly an RTS Player.
So I dont Crave Action.
Neither do I play Elite for Action.

But there is a Distinct Difference between a Game which Lacks Action Gameplay. And a Game which is Plain Boring because it feels the same after short while.
You can Laugh. But I actually found Counterstrike rather Boring after not even 10 Hours.
Because lets face it. You dont really have much Variety in what your doing there lol.


3.
I am not Complaining about things Announced to be Coming.
And I dont even need Space Legs.
Rather than that. I would actually like to get Bigger Ships like Frigates and Destroyers and the Ability to actually have NPC Crew Sitting in my Cockpit in the Spare Seats.
But thats a Different Story.
Atmospheric Landings and Planets etc is planned to Come. So I have no Reason to Complain there.

I am Annoyed by their Lack of Effort with the stuff we got.
(And I also Expect them to not be much better with the stuff that will come later. Likely Atmospheric Planets will also all look quite the Same.)

Because just adding Atmospheric Planets for example.
Will do very little for the Game.
When its the same as with non Atmospheric Planets.
Where if you Traveled to about 10 or 20 of them. It becomes boring because after the 10th you more or less have seen everything there was to See.



Ah but just to be Clear on this. I also have a Ton of Gameplay Complaints as well. From the Ridiculous thing with Conflict Zones that basicly Run forever. Instead of having Proper Battles with Limited Reinforcements. Down to the Stupid System of Travel where Traveling 20 Light Years to the Next Star is Faster than Traveling 500 Light Seconds to the Station inside a Star System.
There is also the Lack of any Variety in Combat. Thanks to all Ships effectively being Fighters with 100% Frontal Weaponry and thus without any real Difference in Playing.

They could Learn a bit from Dark Souls here.
Dark Souls got a Crabton of Weapons. All of which have roughly equal Stats and Values.
But each of which Plays completely Different.

Elite Dangerous the Opposite.
They got alot of Weapons and Ships with vastly Different Stats and Values.
But all of em Play almost entirely the same lol.

The Federal Corvette. Is called a Corvette. But its still just a Fighter.
All its Weapons are to the Front. And in any Fight its Priority is to try and get the Front Facing towards the Enemy while trying to Avoid being in Front of the Enemy.
Its the same for every Ship in the Game.
Doesnt matter if its a Sidewinder, Cobra, Viper, Vulture, Fer de Lance, Gunship, Anaconda or even a Cutter.

Usually. A Corvette should not be trying to get its Front towards an Enemy.
It would usually have more Weapons on Broadside than the Front.
Because its not a Fighter lol.
A Gunship should usually be trying to get the Front at the Enemy. But unlike the Fighters it should not have very Fast Speed moving Forward. It should instead have quite some Control Thrusters to the Sides so it can Sidestrafe at good Speed instead.

But well. As I said. That just on the side.
The Combat being Boring is a Different Issue.
And one I dont care that much about in the First Place.

 

[Glock_N_Load]

You put an athlete and artist in a room full of blank canvas and paints. Keep them there for a day. As they exit get their opinion on how fun the room was. See where I'm going? To me, Elite is the blank canvas and paints. I can do with it what I want when I want and how I want. I never run out of ideas. Five years of entertainment for about $150 is a good deal and it is still going. I was watching a streamer on twitch today goto planet sites I didn't even know were there, wow.

 

[Viajero]

Now for Fairness Said. This is the only Area where ED is not that Bad.
Mostly because they allow the RNG to really go to Town here.

Just a little clarification, this is a common misconception. The Stellar Forge procedural generation is fundamentally deterministic (i.e. the opposite to RNG) and is based on galaxy mass distribution and cosmology evolution as advised by modern astrophysics over a 13 billion year period, not RNG. RNG may be used for some of the fluff and flavour for the height map algorithms etc but system distribution, chemistry (hence colour), mass, number of bodies and types etc is all fundamentally deterministic, not RNG.

So even in the Stellar Forge where Stars have just Formed. No Accretion Discs. No Debris Fields.

As far as I am aware this simply has not been modelled in the Stellar Forge at all. At least not yet. The closest you get in ED to very young systems is just the nebulae and system belts.

 

[Sunleader]

You put an athlete and artist in a room full of blank canvas and paints. Keep them there for a day. As they exit get their opinion on how fun the room was. See where I'm going? To me, Elite is the blank canvas and paints. I can do with it what I want when I want and how I want. I never run out of ideas. Five years of entertainment for about $150 is a good deal and it is still going. I was watching a streamer on twitch today goto planet sites I didn't even know were there, wow.

By that Logic.
A Piece of Paper would be a Better Game than Elite Dangerous.

Dont get me wrong their.
But the Idea of a Game is to Share the Creators Creativity.

Your own Creativity is Welcome.
But if its the Determining Factor for a Game to be Fun.
Then the Game has not exactly done its Job

Just a little clarification, this is a common misconception. The Stellar Forge procedural generation is fundamentally deterministic (i.e. the opposite to RNG) and is based on galaxy mass distribution and cosmology evolution as advised by modern astrophysics over a 13 billion year period, not RNG. RNG may be used for some of the fluff and flavour for the height map algorithms etc but system distribution, chemistry (hence colour), mass, number of bodies and types etc is all fundamentally deterministic, not RNG.



As far as I am aware this simply has not been modelled in the Stellar Forge at all. At least not yet. The closest you get in ED to very young systems is just the nebulae and system belts.

1.
Oh. I see ^^
Maybe thats why its one of the few Things I actually consider to be Dishing out a good Variety

2.
Aye.
And this not being Modeled (And so far also not having been Announced to be Worked on or even being Considered) is one of the Things which I actually find rather Sad.


I said this Countless times in the Past as well.
But alot of things could actually be done to make this Game vastly more Interesting.
Especially on the Exploration Sense.