ANNOUNCEMENT Elite Dangerous: Odyssey Announcement

[Sakashiro]

So? You are still ignoring the central point. You. Dont. Know. Previous events don't necessarily dictate what comes next.



Of course you don't, because you don't have visibility of what decisions have been made*, and why.

*And to be clear - these decisions I`m talking about have already been made - probably two years ago.

Dude, you need to calm down. I never claimed to know what FD would do. I simply said the easiest way to add "space legs" to the game would be to make it another mode, another minigame, just like they did with landing, driving etc. And then you felt somehow triggered by that, and accused me of "oversimplifying something I have no knowledge of". That has basically been your argument the entire time: "You cannot possibly know, because you're not FD." Yet FD, who are clearly in the know, have done EXACTLY THAT with Horizons before, and it worked. Currently there are two types of clients co-existing in the game world, and the only major differences between them are additional minigames and an updated renderer in the Horizons client. That's a proof of concept right there. I don't know what's coming, I'm just saying that this is much more likely to come than a complete rewrite from the ground up. You can disagree of course, but it would be nice to know why.

 

[epoch5]

They have said you must have Horizons to play Odyssey so they are going to be connected in one way or another.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

They have said you must have Horizons to play Odyssey so they are going to be connected in one way or another.

Where have they said that?

 

[Vandaahl]

Where have they said that?

Even if they haven't said it, Horizons is about landing on planets and Odyssey about walking on them. I can see a connection there

 

[epoch5]

I think maybe that guy from down to earth astronomy said it or i read it on steam maybe, I am just not sure where it did come from but hear or read it i did.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Even if they haven't said it, Horizons is about landing on planets and Odyssey about walking on them. I can see a connection there

Odyssey is about walking and tenuous atmospheric planets.

 

[epoch5]

Odyssey is about walking and tenuous atmospheric planets.

Yes it sure is yes siree bob.

 

[Ghural]

To be honest I'd expect that Horizons would be included with Odyssey.

 

[CMDR dbHRGdb]

I can see why ED : O will lose the VR support. Think of the compromises that would need to be made.
Locomotion in VR is either: teleport and lose immersion, also not really workable for a multiplayer combat game, or continuous movement and have a good chunk of VR players get sick. Until cybersickness can be adequately addressed for all users of VR, this will continue to be a problem. Also, the jetpack raises issues for cybersickness.

VR also means no implementation of animations for character models for things like sitting in flightseat/getting up from seat. Not a big problem, but probably just significant enough. Even tracking players crouching and leaning around cover without full-body tracking would be challenging, especially if multiplayer FPS combat is to be a big deal.

Then there's hand tracking, and the current state of the art is to make character hands physically interact with their environment, not pass through it. That is another level of ensuring entity collisions are properly implemented above what a 2d FPS perspective requires. Also, 2 handed weapons are currently janky in VR, they just don't feel right.

Personally, I'd be cool with Odyssey having no VR for the FPS stuff, and when attempting to switch from seated to standing, an on-screen prompt comes up saying the game will switch display settings for that stuff, and the same when I return to the flight seat (and VR)
Add to this the ability to explore the interiors of our ships in VR, away from combat or (if necessary) away from any multiplayer interaction, and I can be okay with that for the interim. Eventually, of course, I'd love to see all of Odyssey in VR, but there are many design and technical challenges to overcome.

The so called Cyber sickness doesn’t affect thise who use it, only the skeptics. Its not an issue if you’re using it. Although its not to say that if say you were in a unwell state at times that you wouldn’t feel it either. Using a HMD is like astronauts learning to live in space to the degree of motion sickness, it becomes very nearly irrelevant in about a month. Some have little symptoms and ppl like myself had about a 6 weeks brake in period were I remember laying down after an SRV Guardian marathon feeling inside out lol. But that doesn’t happen anymore. Now I can’t go back either. So thats not an excuse for no VR, the game doesn’t create motion sickness, people who haven’t broke in VR who have had intial break in periods who need them are just that. Do the work if needed and you’ll understand what it’s all about. Not going back. Destiny is the best “Space” FPS game to me, I along with I’m sure everyone else didn’t purchase this game to become that at anytime in the future, it was advertised to me as a pilot and exploration game and the hazards that go along with those main things. That’s why VR has fit so well in this game and taking it out means you have changed the whole premise of the game and main direction set for the game. This is wrong in my opinion.

 

[Sweet&Dandy]

Still no comment from Frontier about VR? - aside from no VR at launch

 

[Gryphorim]

The so called Cyber sickness doesn’t affect thise who use it, only the skeptics. Its not an issue if you’re using it. Although its not to say that if say you were in a unwell state at times that you wouldn’t feel it either. Using a HMD is like astronauts learning to live in space to the degree of motion sickness, it becomes very nearly irrelevant in about a month. Some have little symptoms and ppl like myself had about a 6 weeks brake in period were I remember laying down after an SRV Guardian marathon feeling inside out lol. But that doesn’t happen anymore. Now I can’t go back either. So thats not an excuse for no VR, the game doesn’t create motion sickness, people who haven’t broke in VR who have had intial break in periods who need them are just that. Do the work if needed and you’ll understand what it’s all about. Not going back. Destiny is the best “Space” FPS game to me, I along with I’m sure everyone else didn’t purchase this game to become that at anytime in the future, it was advertised to me as a pilot and exploration game and the hazards that go along with those main things. That’s why VR has fit so well in this game and taking it out means you have changed the whole premise of the game and main direction set for the game. This is wrong in my opinion.

That's a very antagonistic take on it. So the fact that I haven't acclimatised to VR induced motion sickness is because I don't use VR enough? It doesn't work that way for everyone, sadly. I have had VR for years now, and some actions still cause VR sickness in 10 to 15 minutes. The SRV driving in Elite is one of them, and it's the one I was sure I'd overcome with building up my tolerance. Unfortunately, no. It looks like I am one of those people who just can't acclimatise to certain actions in VR. SRV driving was bad enough, FPS games using continuous motion are far worse.
So, no. Not everyone can acclimatise to VR sickness, and as such, choosing not to support VR for a style of gameplay that is generally more likely to induce VR sickness is a pragmatic decision.
That said, even as one of those people who is more prone to VR sickness, I'd still like to be able to explore my ship, or the inside of a station in VR. I would also like the option to, at my own risk, try VR for the FPS elements outside the ship, but would probably only do so rarely.

 

[Ghural]

According to numerous posts in this thread Frontier have said, "not only no VR at launch, but we're removing VR from all versions of the game" before flying away in a rocket powered by backers money and tears.

 

[vinnieboJ]

The only things that are certain are the things mentioned in the devposts. Everytging else that is not in a devpost should be taken with a grain of salt, and there's plenty here. And for any new person stumbling on this thread, read the devposts first. They are the only reliable source of information. Everything else is guesswork and conjecture.

And untill Fdec decides to lift up the veil we won't know more.

 

[vinnieboJ]

According to numerous posts in this thread Frontier have said, "not only no VR at launch, but we're removing VR from all versions of the game" before flying away in a rocket powered by backers money and tears.

That ain't true. There will be no VR support for Odyssy at launch. But both the base game and Horizons will keep their VR support. Check the devposts.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Still no comment from Frontier about VR? - aside from no VR at launch

What exactly do you expect? They are probably not sure themselves yet of what the plan it. Maybe it's all down to how well Odyssey sells.

 

[CMDR M Kozak]

What exactly do you expect? They are probably not sure themselves yet of what the plan it. Maybe it's all down to how well Odyssey sells.

Let's explore that sentiment.

1) Odyssey sells well.
If the percieved extra sales of VR enabled Odyssey is so small that they wont bother with it "at launch", why would it be more tempting to implement just because they sell to a lot of flatscreeners? It's still a lot of work to do if the decision since 2018 has been to drop VR. At worst they have included so many graphic shortcuts (turning smoke bitmaps) there is no going back.

2) Odyssey sells poorly
Looking at FD's history, anything that people arent "using" will not see improvements, additions or fixes.
Poor sales may also mean the end of expansions to ED.

So "at launch" is very definitive. However, what most are asking for is a reason for that decision and that they stand by it publicly instead of hiding it on page 63 in this thread and PM's to select forum users. In that light - the decision is still not public. Many will be "surprised" when Odyssey launches - the refund office could get busy if its not communicated front and center.

 

[VR andysonofbob]

That's a very antagonistic take on it. So the fact that I haven't acclimatised to VR induced motion sickness is because I don't use VR enough? It doesn't work that way for everyone, sadly. I have had VR for years now, and some actions still cause VR sickness in 10 to 15 minutes. The SRV driving in Elite is one of them, and it's the one I was sure I'd overcome with building up my tolerance. Unfortunately, no. It looks like I am one of those people who just can't acclimatise to certain actions in VR. SRV driving was bad enough, FPS games using continuous motion are far worse.
So, no. Not everyone can acclimatise to VR sickness, and as such, choosing not to support VR for a style of gameplay that is generally more likely to induce VR sickness is a pragmatic decision.
That said, even as one of those people who is more prone to VR sickness, I'd still like to be able to explore my ship, or the inside of a station in VR. I would also like the option to, at my own risk, try VR for the FPS elements outside the ship, but would probably only do so rarely.

Hi

I do see your point but I really don't think the reason for no VR is the motion sickness that some feel. Because, if that is the case, then why didn't they remove it for Horizons? Horizons introduced the SRV.

In the Dev diary with DB and wassname, which introduced (I think) the SRV, the second time you see the SRV footage it's blatenly VR.

I think it more likely that there is an issue with the engine, probably baked in 2D effects, with no depth info required for rendering 3d.

 

[CMDR Scholesey]

According to numerous posts in this thread Frontier have said, "not only no VR at launch, but we're removing VR from all versions of the game" before flying away in a rocket powered by backers money and tears.

Numerous posts haven't said that, everyone knows it's staying in the base game and horizons. People ARE saying that they think the base game and horizons will likely be put on ice with no updates as the focus goes on ED:O. People will just tire of it when nothing new is introduced and it will fade away or be discontinued. Or they might back port improvements? We just don't know what will happen to the base game or horizons or VR in ED:O and there lies the reason for nearly 300 pages of disappointment. WE DON'T KNOW. There is a road map somewhere for ED but FD have chosen not to give us any more than No VR at launch. Many VR users are assuming the worst, if they were going to put it in at any time in the future it would be seen as good news and who doesn't like to make people happy with good news? Bad news however, people tend to hide in ambiguity or silence. All this could easily be stopped by a sentence from FD. I would be happy at this point if they said outright VR is never coming, then I'd have a quick moan and move on. Uncertainty is the worst possible thing FD could give VR users.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Let's explore that sentiment.

1) Odyssey sells well.
If the percieved extra sales of VR enabled Odyssey is so small that they wont bother with it "at launch", why would it be more tempting to implement just because they sell to a lot of flatscreeners? It's still a lot of work to do if the decision since 2018 has been to drop VR. At worst they have included so many graphic shortcuts (turning smoke bitmaps) there is no going back.

2) Odyssey sells poorly
Looking at FD's history, anything that people arent "using" will not see improvements, additions or fixes.
Poor sales may also mean the end of expansions to ED.

So "at launch" is very definitive. However, what most are asking for is a reason for that decision and that they stand by it publicly instead of hiding it on page 63 in this thread and PM's to select forum users. In that light - the decision is still not public. Many will be "surprised" when Odyssey launches - the refund office could get busy if its not communicated front and center.

It's been said in public, on articles and on the steam site. There is no VR at launch. As to the reasons, that has been given. If people really want to find out, it's not tough to do so by coming to the forums.

 

[CMDR Scholesey]

Let's explore that sentiment.

1) Odyssey sells well.
If the percieved extra sales of VR enabled Odyssey is so small that they wont bother with it "at launch", why would it be more tempting to implement just because they sell to a lot of flatscreeners? It's still a lot of work to do if the decision since 2018 has been to drop VR. At worst they have included so many graphic shortcuts (turning smoke bitmaps) there is no going back.

2) Odyssey sells poorly
Looking at FD's history, anything that people arent "using" will not see improvements, additions or fixes.
Poor sales may also mean the end of expansions to ED.

So "at launch" is very definitive. However, what most are asking for is a reason for that decision and that they stand by it publicly instead of hiding it on page 63 in this thread and PM's to select forum users. In that light - the decision is still not public. Many will be "surprised" when Odyssey launches - the refund office could get busy if its not communicated front and center.

Agree with this, there are some logical conclusions here.