Elite Dangerous | Powerplay 2.0 Questions and Answers

[SergMx]

One of the nice things about Elite Dangerous is that we can scale the difficulty of the game by how we play. If I want a more challenging PvE experience I can fly less capable ships and use less capable equipment to make the game challenging and fun.

I've said before that ED has two pieces...1. A toolbox of a variety of ships and suits, with a variety of other equipment that can be used to customize them and 2. A world in which to use the tools to blaze your own trail.

When I'm in overpowered gear, in space or on land (Thargoids excluded), the game is too easy and it gets boring quickly.

It looks like PP2.0 PvE will be more challenging, thereby increasing the point on the scale at which we become overpowered, allowing us to utilize the higher end modules/equipment/engineering
.

I've played many and games and all of the Elites and even played Park a long time ago, they all provided player development and increased difficulty levels. You were happy to buy and use the Energy Bomb because it was progression.
I find it hard to understand artificially limiting yourself in the game, why play then ?

 

[nemolomen]

I've played many and games and all of the Elites and even played Park a long time ago, they all provided player development and increased difficulty levels. You were happy to buy and use the Energy Bomb because it was progression.
I find it hard to understand artificially limiting yourself in the game, why play then ?

For fun rather than achievement...

 

[Rubbernuke]

Personally I want NPCs to be (at the top end) pushed to the limit to surpass what we have- long ago we had this and it went away.

Just by having RNG loadouts and more engineered NPCs would readjust the upper difficulty curve. Then you can't anticipate the cookie cutter NPCs and that eventually you'll sweat a bit.

As an example, I stacked about three top end pirate lord missions, was wanted and had to scan a NAV. I drop in and immediately have two pirate corvettes, a BH pops in later, a pirate anaconda and sec forces then take interest.....it was the best PvE I had in ED, since it was so random and unexpected. I salivate at being attacked by a large wing of engineered ships because I'm in the wrong place at the wrong time because I'm then using all the skills and ships l have to the fullest, rather than trying to fit inside the curve as it is now.

 

[Starman 1966]

Take a kill mission against a hostile MF. Seven or eight highly engineered medium ships will jump at you at the same time with all guns blazing. You are welcome.

 

[Darkfyre99]

I see, what you consider a disadvantage and what you do not consider, well, in principle no, well, it's your right.
In the answers, as I understand it, once again emphasized that manipulation with BGS is not exactly what is conceived in the game. I will hope that PP2 will correct this situation and we will do more missions in the context of PP and not manipulate the BGS to bend the system to fit.

BGS manipulation is what’s emergent gameplay, and was pretty much guaranteed to happen once players realized that their actions affected the game world. Whether it was used to maximize a merchant’s profits, as a proxy for espionage gameplay, or a proxy for territorial warfare, is immaterial. The fact that players can do it means some will do it.

I would’ve “aided brave freedom fighters against the evil galactic Federstion” regardless of whether I’d change anything, simply out of role playing… similar to what I did in FE2 and FFE. The fact that different actions used to have different results meant that roleplay had greater depth. PowerPlay V2 is going restore a little of that depth that was lost duringbth BGS revamp.

 

[SergMx]

BGS manipulation is what’s emergent gameplay, and was pretty much guaranteed to happen once players realized that their actions affected the game world. Whether it was used to maximize a merchant’s profits, as a proxy for espionage gameplay, or a proxy for territorial warfare, is immaterial. The fact that players can do it means some will do it.

I would’ve “aided brave freedom fighters against the evil galactic Federstion” regardless of whether I’d change anything, simply out of role playing… similar to what I did in FE2 and FFE. The fact that different actions used to have different results meant that roleplay had greater depth. PowerPlay V2 is going restore a little of that depth that was lost duringbth BGS revamp.

Well yes as I understood from the answers, if you are not in the POWER then your influence on the BGS will not work at all. And if you are in the power you will do not what you want but what the power needs.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Well yes as I understood from the answers, if you are not in the POWER then your influence on the BGS will not work at all.

???

No matter what you do, you affect the BGS. That's the whole point. This is true regardless of whether you're pledged to a power or not. In PowerPlay 1.0, players were encouraged to manipulate the BGS to affect fortification and undermining triggers. In PowerPlay 2.0, there'll be no strong reason to manipulate the BGS to affect PowerPlay, but your actions will still continue to affect the BGS.

And as sure as water flows through a crack, you can be assured that some PowerPlayers in 2.0 will see some advantage to manipulating the BGS to better generate the kind of activities that will maximize the earnings of PowerPlay 2.0 merits. For example, if Aisling Duval's preferred method of earning merits is through altruistic missions, I can certainly see people, like myself, trying to manipulate faction states to generate more of them than normal. The only problem is it's far easier to generate positive faction states than it is to create negative ones in BGS 2.0. *

And if you are in the power you will do not what you want but what the power needs.

???

1) In PowerPlay 1.0, there was absolutely nothing stopping players from doing whatever they wanted, even if it might be detrimental to the Power in the long term. Most players I knew would at least consider the "commands" of whatever group was claiming to be in charge at the time... assuming they didn't make you jump through hoops to get that information.

2) In PowerPlay 2.0, there's absolutely no reason not to pursue your own agenda on behalf of your Power, because whatever you do will either a) benefit your Power; or b) be detrimental to a hostile Power. I certainly have my own personal campaign planned, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. The only question will be whether or not I'll have to help fortify another system first.

 

[Cosmo]

Video by CMDR Mechan about the PP2 Q&A (skip to 1:02):

1. As far as open only it will not be available at launch which doesn't mean anything.
2. Not much gameplay details other than it's going to be connected to a wider range of activities.
3. You still cannot kick out individual powers
4. Additional power in PP is fine but doesn't mean much
5. PP2 should be open only if you want meaningful PVP in your game.
6. Reskinning PP2 and calling it Ascendancy is counterproductive and disappointing.
7. Comment: "Why would they do it "open only"" CMDR Mechan: "Because it's the how they would finally fix PVP in this game (which is as-badly-broken as Powerplay presently.) the gameplay loop for Powerplay, present and future, is just lame. You can't "win" (can't kick out a power entirely.) It's a grind to get to specific modules, which means people switch loyalties all the time to get different modules (or at least many do.) And there's no sense of accomplishment, ZERO, in fighting for a power as not only you cannot win, but an algorithm synthetically pushes your progress back no matter what you do. Hence ... practically nobody plays it in the grand scheme of things. At least make it a meaningful structure for PvP (which it could be), or, if you're going to make it solo/private, then there's some MUCH more structural changes required."

I suggested earlier, they could add PVP-only objectives as well as PVE-only.

 

[Darrack]

Video by CMDR Mechan about the PP2 Q&A (skip to 1:02):

1. As far as open only it will not be available at launch which doesn't mean anything.
2. Not much gameplay details other than it's going to be connected to a wider range of activities.
3. You still cannot kick out individual powers
4. Additional power in PP is fine but doesn't mean much
5. PP2 should be open only if you want meaningful PVP in your game.
6. Reskinning PP2 and calling it Ascendancy is counterproductive and disappointing.
7. Comment: "Why would they do it "open only"" CMDR Mechan: "Because it's the how they would finally fix PVP in this game (which is as-badly-broken as Powerplay presently.) the gameplay loop for Powerplay, present and future, is just lame. You can't "win" (can't kick out a power entirely.) It's a grind to get to specific modules, which means people switch loyalties all the time to get different modules (or at least many do.) And there's no sense of accomplishment, ZERO, in fighting for a power as not only you cannot win, but an algorithm synthetically pushes your progress back no matter what you do. Hence ... practically nobody plays it in the grand scheme of things. At least make it a meaningful structure for PvP (which it could be), or, if you're going to make it solo/private, then there's some MUCH more structural changes required."

I suggested earlier, they could add PVP-only objectives as well as PVE-only.

It was all in the live stream, everything else is his opinion, we all have one

O7

 

[Rubbernuke]

2) In PowerPlay 2.0, there's absolutely no reason not to pursue your own agenda on behalf of your Power, because whatever you do will either a) benefit your Power; or b) be detrimental to a hostile Power. I certainly have my own personal campaign planned, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. The only question will be whether or not I'll have to help fortify another system first.

This is probably the best aspect to V2, as it bops 5C in the plums and makes every expansion self contained.

It will be interesting to see how this shakes out re ZYADA, FUC and KALE too, in that its still a bit unkown how much neutral rivals can help each other.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Video by CMDR Mechan about the PP2 Q&A (skip to 1:02):
[*]Not much gameplay details other than it's going to be connected to a wider range of activities.

There's a bit more detail about (combining all the things Frontier have said, not just the recent Q&A) than that they appear to have missed.

You still cannot kick out individual powers

Well ... or at least Frontier aren't setting a quantified guaranteed method to do so before they've even had chance to see how their theory of balance interacts with thousands of sneaky players. They may have learned from PP1 there where their initial proposal for how collapse worked would in many ways have been easier to get a well-supported large power to fall into, even before 5C became such an obvious tactic.

Additional power in PP is fine but doesn't mean much

This very much depends on the unanswered question of whether conflict within a superpower is possible / encouraged. If it's all peace and light within a superpower then yes, all this is doing is giving the Alliance an extra HQ they don't really need (and scrapping all of the superpower-aligned powers except the President, Emperor and Prime Minister would have been simpler). If in-superpower conflict is encouraged - and it would make far more sense if it was, but I'm not going to get my hopes up too much yet - then Kaine has potential to shake things up a lot if they get any supporters.

Reskinning PP2 and calling it Ascendancy is counterproductive and disappointing.

"Ascendancy" is the name of the update - they're still calling the system Powerplay 2, as in the title of this thread. As above, I think they should have called it Ascendancy to emphasise the differences from Powerplay 1, though that's not going to matter in a month or so - but it does seem like Mechan has missed some of them. For example:

It's a grind to get to specific modules, which means people switch loyalties all the time to get different modules (or at least many do.)

Stated as fixed in PP2: you get every module from every power and only the order varies, as well as other incentives to stick to one power long-term

but an algorithm synthetically pushes your progress back no matter what you do.

Strongly implied - the removal of CC, the individualisation of systems, the potential for "passing traffic attacks" as in the BGS - that there won't be "overheads" or similar in that sense in PP2 either, but instead there'll be the more interesting ability to target an attack to a system you want another power to lose (rather than turmoiling them and then hoping they drop it) to make it less arbitrary on both sides.

they could add PVP-only objectives

One of the work-in-progress screenshots shown on the earlier preview had "kill enemy CMDRs" as a way of undermining a system. Balancing that to be worth the effort for honest kills yet not a powerful exploit for "repeatedly shoot your own alt" might mean it doesn't make it as far as release, of course.

 

[SergMx]

The only problem is it's far easier to generate positive faction states than it is to create negative ones in BGS 2.0

Oh, I see you know what I'm writing about.
In my opinion, BGS is to show the change of systems around. And to suggest missions as a result of that change.
Not to specifically change the system to get those missions.
In fact, that's why it's called BGS manipulation.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Is this the rant video he announced to make so loudly in Twitch chat? I am so glad we have CMDRs like him selling their opinions as facts.

 

[aRJay]

Video by CMDR Mechan about the PP2 Q&A (skip to 1:02):

• As far as open only it will not be available at launch which doesn't mean anything.

Forum wisdom is that means never, I hope so, but it might just mean what it says.

• Not much gameplay details other than it's going to be connected to a wider range of activities.

Yes we are all speculating on limited information, some hints, and the occaisional screen grap of stuff that was being worked on at some point but wasn’t necessarily anything like the release.

• You still cannot kick out individual powers

At launch. I am sure that once hundreds of players have stressed the systems that there will be some changes. If a power cannot be removed perhaps it could be pushed back so far that it is irrelevant.

• Additional power in PP is fine but doesn't mean much
• PP2 should be open only if you want meaningful PVP in your game.

And for everyone that doesn’t want PvP and the people that only want meaningless PvP it should be available to everyone no matter what.

• Reskinning PP2 and calling it Ascendancy is counterproductive and disappointing.
• Comment: "Why would they do it "open only"" CMDR Mechan: "Because it's the how they would finally fix PVP in this game (which is as-badly-broken as Powerplay presently.) the gameplay loop for Powerplay, present and future, is just lame. You can't "win" (can't kick out a power entirely.) It's a grind to get to specific modules, which means people switch loyalties all the time to get different modules (or at least many do.)

The modules thing was mentioned on Frontier Unlocked and in the Q&A post, all modules available from all powers but in different orders. Nobody outside of FDev or not bound by an NDA knows how much or little fun will be involved in getting the bribes this time.

• And there's no sense of accomplishment, ZERO, in fighting for a power as not only you cannot win, but an algorithm synthetically pushes your progress back no matter what you do. Hence ... practically nobody plays it in the grand scheme of things. At least make it a meaningful structure for PvP (which it could be), or, if you're going to make it solo/private, then there's some MUCH more structural changes required."

To be honest it sounds like a description of PP1, are you sure it is his thoughts on PP2?

I suggested earlier, they could add PVP-only objectives as well as PVE-only.

You seemed much more interested in the PvP side but it was nice to see some acknowledgment of other aspects of the game.

 

[Cosmo]

To be honest it sounds like a description of PP1, are you sure it is his thoughts on PP2?

Yep, it's a reply to a comment by @dougroberts3187 below the video. CMDR Mechan aka Astyrrean.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Forum wisdom is that means never, I hope so, but it might just mean what it says.

Yes we are all speculating on limited information, some hints, and the occaisional screen grap of stuff that was being worked on at some point but wasn’t necessarily anything like the release.

At launch. I am sure that once hundreds of players have stressed the systems that there will be some changes. If a power cannot be removed perhaps it could be pushed back so far that it is irrelevant.

And for everyone that doesn’t want PvP and the people that only want meaningless PvP it should be available to everyone no matter what.

The modules thing was mentioned on Frontier Unlocked and in the Q&A post, all modules available from all powers but in different orders. Nobody outside of FDev or not bound by an NDA knows how much or little fun will be involved in getting the bribes this time.

To be honest it sounds like a description of PP1, are you sure it is his thoughts on PP2?

You seemed much more interested in the PvP side but it was nice to see some acknowledgment of other aspects of the game.

Although FD themselves describe V2 as an evolution, at the same time there are enough differences not to warrant some of that videos criticisms. For a lot of Powerplay guys simply having no 5C is enough to make them happy.

As far as collapsing Powers- given powers can be forced out of systems aside from the capital, it stands to reason that given enough effort a power could be squished all the way back to its 'home'. Although not total removal thats as close to collapse as you could get.

 

[Darth Ender]

if it isn't in the launched update, I'm not sure what in the history of the game makes someone think they will continue to evolve and respond to player feedback with additional changes in features. at most you will see some numbers tuned. unless you count years between changes as evolution.

being pushed back to a home system is not a substitute for collapse. if we retain the cost effect of expansion being related to distance from home, then 'collapsing' a power only lasts as long as opposition puts constant effort on making that state happen. as soon as that pressure stops, the whole system rubber bands back to an initial state with extremely little effort in comparison. in other words it will be much cheaper to expand back to original size than continue the opposition.

ignoring collapse, what about improving the role playing within the game (something central to pp)? where are the mechanisms and tools for organising players in game? why is all that still being shifted to third party websites outside of the game?

how about power promotion? though i guess this would be related to why we don't have collapse. this was also central to what would give pp the player agency missing from the rest of the core game. creating or rallying around factions and raising them to a galactic power and potentially having them fail and disbanded. pp has no reason for existing without these mechanics, since we know pp doesn't really matter to the game as a whole. it becomes a pointless never ending repeat loop that isn't relevant nor does it even need the players.

i don't really see the refactoring of some details around what counts as merits or how the bgs impacts pp system resources as addressing why pp doesn't resonate with the remaining playerbase and never really has.

fdev isn't going to actively fill in the missing functionality and follow player activity. so, who but the existing pp1 users will remain with pp2 after the initial novelty of something new wears off?

i don't know why in fdev's planning meetings that adding more powers made any sense at all. diluting the player activity in any given power hurts the mechanic. the powers don't really do anything unique or consequential that would create gaps for new powers to fill. unless it's adding powers where there's none at all currently and there's no way for any to expand into that space. so what is the justification to add powers? it's a tease of the missing features of pp but without removing powers is actually worse than not doing anything at all in that regard.

i was hoping many years and experience would have given fdev time to make good on getting some of that imagination being forced onto third party platforms or having to only exist in the player's head, to be put into the game.

this is why this game needs the server backend opened up (or at least the api documented) and the client given full mod support. i have no doubt the community could take up the slack, and could have been doing so for years.

 

[St0rmFury]

Random question, what do you think is the % of players who are even aware of powerplay?

 

[WILLIAM BILL ADAMA]

Random question, what do you think is the % of players who are even aware of powerplay?

It's difficult to answer. But I think it will be depend on FDev's plan. I remembered few years ago AX users were not many, but after Thargoid War update AX users were dramatically increased.

 

[aRJay]

Random question, what do you think is the % of players who are even aware of powerplay?

Given Galnet having regular updates and various other places it is mentioned in game awareness is probably fairly high, how many of those do more than try and collect modules is the more important question.

So I would guess 60% aware of it, 15% of them do more than collect modules.