Elite Dangerous Quick Tips - Infinite Very Rare Material Well

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

There's a very distinct line between removing consequence/effort, and challenging a very poorly implemented system.

There are a lot of lines. It always depends on what line you are looking at. Time is the true currency in this game. All three examples are about removing time sinks form the game. Making the game "cheaper" to play.
Sure, we can draw random lines in the sand to claim "to this point and not further", but it's just that. Drawing arbitrary lines that fit our own interests.

And "challenging a very poorly implemented system" is just an euphemism for "exploiting".

 

[Truesilver]

Like doing something that prevents the destruction of a ship? Saves you an hour or maybe even more

How about removing the re-buy cost?
Or maybe give every player every ship, module and mode that player wants without doing anything?

Thin ice, very thin ice you are skating on there.

No, Mr Lichtfrost, the thin ice is created by those who cheat or hack to achieve the things you say.

I would do anything short of cheating or hacking to break RNGineers.

Nothing in this thread falls into either of those categories.

Combat logging is cheating and bannable. Contrary to this forum's general knowledge, the bans are now being handed out. Good.

And Frontier banned a bunch of hackers about two years ago and I believe still do periodically.

What is in this thread isn't cheating or hacking and everyone is free to do it, or not do it, as much as they wish.

Sure, we can draw random lines in the sand to claim "to this point and not further", but it's just that. Drawing arbitrary lines that fit our own interests.

Yes, this is why player-drawn lines are meaningless save as a question of personal honour.

The Developers draw the lines.

 

[StiTch]

There are a lot of lines. It always depends on what line you are looking at. Time is the true currency in this game. All three examples are about removing time sinks form the game. Making the game "cheaper" to play.
Sure, we can draw random lines in the sand to claim "to this point and not further", but it's just that. Drawing arbitrary lines that fit our own interests.

And "challenging a very poorly implemented system" is just an euphemism for "exploiting".

If I want to cover rebuy, I work for 15 minutes to regain it.

If I want to shape a ship for PvP, I have to work for several hours involving collecting resources for several rolls that may ultimately turn out pants.

I don't mind putting time in to an achievement. I do mind a large amount of time spent very literally being wasted, especially in an environment where if I don't do so my ship is effectively not viable.

Though I very much understand the stance you're taking, if you can defend the implementation of engineers you have a laughable concept of good gameplay...

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

No, Mr Lichtfrost, the thin ice is created by those who cheat or hack to achieve the things you say.
…
What is in this thread isn't cheating or hacking and everyone is free to do it, or not do it, as much as they wish.

You almost used the same arguments "they" use to justify their actions to explain why you think it's OK to use that "infinite material well". If you consider your argument valid, then "their" argument is equally valid - the only difference being that the developer declared their actions as not allowed (for random reasons).

Btw, what this topic is about would be considered an exploit in almost all multiplayer games I ever played and in many of that games using that would result in bans (real ones, not shadow bans).

Yes, this is why player-drawn lines are meaningless save as a question of personal honour.

The Developers draw the lines.

I agree with you on that.

I will add that FD is doing a really bad job at drawing lines in the sand.

- - - Updated - - -

…
, if you can defend the implementation of engineers you have a laughable concept of good gameplay...

No, I have no intention to defend the implementation of engineers. The game would be better without the special effects and maybe even without engineers at all.

 

[StiTch]

No, I have no intention to defend the implementation of engineers. The game would be better without the special effects and maybe even without engineers at all.

Now here I agree with you. I don't think we can outright kill special effects, because engineering thus far has been very much in favour of defenses and there's a couple of effects we need to help punch through that, but I would sacrifice my iCutter ten times over to remove engineers entirely.

 

[Truesilver]

You almost used the same arguments "they" use to justify their actions to explain why you think it's OK to use that "infinite material well".

Actually, Zadian, I think this is just a misunderstanding. Please re-read my original post. I wasn't using an argument and I wasn't defending.

I was replying to the posts I quoted (two taking one line, one another) to explain why I think it is wrong to assume that min/maxing necessarily reduces game enjoyment.

 

[MassiveD]

Now, what I'm about to say next is like signing a death-wish, and please believe me that I put a lot of thought if I even want to say it out loud or not.

But, in the gaming industry, players who can afford 5-10 hours per week to play a game are considered odd-balls. For a game to be doing well, your avarage player needs to be playing your game roughly 4 hours per day, thats 20 hours per working week.

I know alot of people will take out their pitchforks and torches right about at the end of the next statement ,but game developers have to take that into consideration, and the content whcih they put out needs to be balanced for people who do play roughly 20 hours per week and more, it has to be balanced around them, and it's very likely that as an oddball player who plays for a few hours per day - you will never be able to reach the same level as the person who plays 10 hours per day, and there are alot of gamers who can allow thesemselves to do so.

It's a balancing conundrum, it really is.

I actually have a funny story regarding this, when I was 18 years old, I ran a game server on my computer for a game called RAN Online, it was a private server with hacked files and stuff, I did it out of curiosity, and I got a good ammount of people who joined and played on my server, because my server had better rewards and you could gain levels quicker than the original server etc, so it offered more imediate fun.

Now when I was balancing the drop-tables and experiece gain on the server side, I thought I would make it so that a player who roughly plays for a year in the original server, would be able to achieve the same ammount of stuff in roughly 1-2 months on my server.

Which was working fine, untill I kid you not, some Korean dude joined the server on January 22nd and was max-level with best gear on January 24th, proceeded to beat the living snot out of everyone to the point where majority players left and that actually cut down on my revenue lol.

And that would be a problem in Elite if the content was generous for players who can afford few hours per day, because you would always get that kid, or that group of kids who would just be supreme godlike murder machines by the end of the week with 100% unlocked game content.

On the bright side, Elite Dangerous offers you to be specialized in more activities than other games, you don't have to PVP per say, you can just do your own thing mining or exploring, never touch Engineers if you don't want to, you can tailor your own adventure and play at your own pace.

But when it comes to unlocking really high end gear, players who play more will get there first, while you may never even get there at all...

There's no way to work around that , as it's pretty much a fact of life.


I'm dead for saying it out loud, aren't I... *puts blindfold on and lights a cigarette*

 

[Truesilver]

@Massive D, yeah, I did 20 hours/week in this game for about 18 months and judging by my former player group that was about average, as you say.

However, when I was much, much younger and was pro-level at a certain popular PvP game that skill level was because I put in 12-18 hours per DAY for a year lol.

And I know guys who have put that into ED!

 

[dekot]

They're not going to fix this anytime soon right? Don't want to lag it and then not be able to do it in 2.3

 

[jasonbarron]

Now, what I'm about to say next is like signing a death-wish, and please believe me that I put a lot of thought if I even want to say it out loud or not.

But, in the gaming industry, players who can afford 5-10 hours per week to play a game are considered odd-balls. For a game to be doing well, your avarage player needs to be playing your game roughly 4 hours per day, thats 20 hours per working week.

I know alot of people will take out their pitchforks and torches right about at the end of the next statement ,but game developers have to take that into consideration, and the content whcih they put out needs to be balanced for people who do play roughly 20 hours per week and more, it has to be balanced around them, and it's very likely that as an oddball player who plays for a few hours per day - you will never be able to reach the same level as the person who plays 10 hours per day, and there are alot of gamers who can allow thesemselves to do so.

It's a balancing conundrum, it really is.

I actually have a funny story regarding this, when I was 18 years old, I ran a game server on my computer for a game called RAN Online, it was a private server with hacked files and stuff, I did it out of curiosity, and I got a good ammount of people who joined and played on my server, because my server had better rewards and you could gain levels quicker than the original server etc, so it offered more imediate fun.

Now when I was balancing the drop-tables and experiece gain on the server side, I thought I would make it so that a player who roughly plays for a year in the original server, would be able to achieve the same ammount of stuff in roughly 1-2 months on my server.

Which was working fine, untill I kid you not, some Korean dude joined the server on January 22nd and was max-level with best gear on January 24th, proceeded to beat the living snot out of everyone to the point where majority players left and that actually cut down on my revenue lol.

And that would be a problem in Elite if the content was generous for players who can afford few hours per day, because you would always get that kid, or that group of kids who would just be supreme godlike murder machines by the end of the week with 100% unlocked game content.

On the bright side, Elite Dangerous offers you to be specialized in more activities than other games, you don't have to PVP per say, you can just do your own thing mining or exploring, never touch Engineers if you don't want to, you can tailor your own adventure and play at your own pace.

But when it comes to unlocking really high end gear, players who play more will get there first, while you may never even get there at all...

There's no way to work around that , as it's pretty much a fact of life.


I'm dead for saying it out loud, aren't I... *puts blindfold on and lights a cigarette*

In the last two years I've racked up a sizable quantity of time playing ED, but my freedom is being strictly curtailed now that work is picking up. I would dearly love to be able to average 20+ hours per week playing ED but alas, my responsibilities constantly intervene. There are a few months out of the year when work for my business slows and I get more leisure time, but usually that is not the case. I do the best that I can, and extract fun and enjoyment to the fullest each and every time I boot up my ship. I've played for many hours just bumbling about not making "progress" and other times I've played very focused, very lasered in on my goals, and also I've played any number of ways the community might deem exploitative.

At the end of the day it's just about whether you're having fun or not, really. Personally, I think your videos and various tutorials help a lot more than they hurt because ultimately they're just helping people having fun with the game. No need for preachy sermons on the "right" way to do things like the community is want to do. Carry on, CMDR

 

[MassiveD]

In the last two years I've racked up a sizable quantity of time playing ED, but my freedom is being strictly curtailed now that work is picking up. I would dearly love to be able to average 20+ hours per week playing ED but alas, my responsibilities constantly intervene. There are a few months out of the year when work for my business slows and I get more leisure time, but usually that is not the case. I do the best that I can, and extract fun and enjoyment to the fullest each and every time I boot up my ship. I've played for many hours just bumbling about not making "progress" and other times I've played very focused, very lasered in on my goals, and also I've played any number of ways the community might deem exploitative.

At the end of the day it's just about whether you're having fun or not, really. Personally, I think your videos and various tutorials help a lot more than they hurt because ultimately they're just helping people having fun with the game. No need for preachy sermons on the "right" way to do things like the community is want to do. Carry on, CMDR

Obviously YouTube is still a new thing for me, but one thing that has been weird to me is that I get some people commenting on one of my videos say stuff like 'good tutorial, thansk for sharing" etc, and then the same person would come up on a video like this and be like "how dare you show these exploits, i'm unscubscribing, ill never watch your videos again", I do sort of realize that it's down to what the nature of the internet is, sometimes there's no logic necesary to be aplied, but I still find social interactions curious, and its still weird to me.

I've put in a similar ammount of hours in both videos, did them with same care and atention, and sure one of the videos may show something that people don't like or disagree with, but its obvious that I am not the one who programmed it in the game, just basicaly the messenger, a journalist per say who covered the story.

I personally don't mind negative feedback, I actually try to find silver lining and go as far as try to exctact something possitive out of it, since I'm the kind of person who's very secure with my own psychology, in a sence that I know who I am, I know exactly what my content is and will continue to be, I'm definitely not gonna filter myself in order to obstruct or obscure the reality of things, because I'd rather be honest with my viewers and myself

And that's the point I'm tryign to make, that it really depends on the way that a person views things, if an individual is a type of person that is not able to put that many hours into the game, and they feel like they are being left behind, while others progress into the infinity, and it upsets them to the point where they come on the forums demanding that the games is adjust to accomodate their needs - ultimately they are going to have a bad time, as it simply is not a thing that can happen.

It sometimes can be hard to deal with the reality of it, but I feel that as adults we all have the capacity to think things through rationaly, and come to a conclusion that it's only logical that a person who spends more time at doing a thing, will most likely be better at it than the person who does it occasionally.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

… I don't think we can outright kill special effects, because engineering thus far has been very much in favour of defenses and there's a couple of effects we need to help punch through that,…

The problem, in my opinion is, that FD is adding unbalancing things to balance unbalanced things put into the game to balance …

It's bizarre, you "need" corrosive special effect to counter armor because HRPs and MRPs got introduced because shields got reduced because shield where too strong after shield boosters and SCBs …[wacky]

FD isn't fixing, it's adding problems onto of problems hoping that adding stuff fixes the existing stuff.

 

[Truesilver]

The problem, in my opinion is, that FD is adding unbalancing things to balance unbalanced things put into the game to balance …

It's bizarre, you "need" corrosive special effect to counter armor because HRPs and MRPs got introduced because shields got reduced because shield where too strong after shield boosters and SCBs …[wacky]

FD isn't fixing, it's adding problems onto of problems hoping that adding stuff fixes the existing stuff.

Utterly and totally agree.

If tonight DBOBE deleted everything post 1.4, then added back in the Corvette and Cutter, and just dialled back on the SCB stacking a little ...

... we would wake up to such a great game.

 

[MassiveD]

Utterly and totally agree.

If tonight DBOBE deleted everything post 1.4, then added back in the Corvette and Cutter, and just dialled back on the SCB stacking a little ...

... we would wake up to such a great game.

Back to everyone using cookie cutter half laser and half MC builds?..... Having identical ships etc....

Please no...

 

[Hooplah]

...I don't think it's fair that some people know and use this while others are unaware. My channel is dedicated to educating ED players, especially begginers...

Great post MassiveD. Keep it up and pay little attention to the naysayers. There are numerous planet wells available. Experience combined with skills in ED is the whole ballgame and taking the time to help others with your videos is very generous and dedicated for players to enjoy the game even more. A heartfelt thanks from the "silent majority" !!

 

[Kurok]

I just think that they should be encouraged to play the game as intended

And how is that exactly to the "T"??? how am "I" supposed to play this game? please enlighten me, please!

You telling me that when you needed a specific material or commodity, you just found out where to get it on your own, never once have you googled how to obtain something in Elite or came on to the forum to read posts on how to obtain something, never right?

You make me LOL!

Thank you MassiveD for sharing!

 

[Ace Goodfellow]

Massive D I like your videos. Not all the content is for me (for example, I wouldn't farm resources this way but rather get them as a part of my own play style) but they are informative, entertaining and well put together.

A lot of discussions around this game (and another mmorpg space game I frequent- albeit le since I started ED) focus on the grind, balancing and how long it takes to achieve some things. It may be engineer access, engineer modificwtion materials or just the money for that really, really nice ship you want.

There has to be some level of graft. If you were able to get to a fully loaded and modded Anaconda in a couple of weeks of playing the game, what value would you then place on it? I agree that balancing the grind is a tricky thing, but there does need to be a sense of achievement or you won't love that ship or fully extended FSD range nearly as much.

 

[Lucius-Darcia]

Hi everyone,


In this video we discover a method of farming Very Rare materials that has to be seen to be believed, and that is not a click-bait statement.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3keY3rSdB4&feature=youtu.be

Clever idea, clever exploit
but it looks so damn boring that i will never do it

 

[StiTch]

I'm dead for saying it out loud, aren't I... *puts blindfold on and lights a cigarette*

Totally valid viewpoint mate. One who puts in moar time should reap moar rewards.

But as far as my qualms with engineers go, one of two of them is really the RNG as opposed to time sink. Some rolls out there require horrifying time spent gathering the mats, and after gather several of them and making several rolls I will sometimes come out of that without a single viable roll.

And for the modules that do roll well I can come out with something frankly overpowered. I have a bi-weave shield now for my cutter that rolled bonuses to optimal mass AND optimal multiplier, so now on top of what's considerably a god roll as it is, it now has capacity half way between what it should be and the A-rated shield.

I know I can't ask for 2.1 to be stripped back, but I do wish we'd at least consider the slider concept that's been proposed a few times. I was adverse to it at first, but now I more clearly perceive the difference between rewarding effort and rewarding blind luck.

 

[Shiro Akai]

These exploits (no matter the game) make me fell #sadpanda as I'm always late to the party and get info about it when it's been already patched... Not that I'll be using expolits as in general I'm a honest man. I cheat in single player games only and for my own amusement to focus on one aspect and completely skip other.

So - why even bother with taking discussion about exploits? Simply - this affects me heavily, tho indirectly. This goes like this:
- exploit/creative use of game mechanics is found
- certain amount of players takes advantage of it and earn extra credits
- situation rolls for some time
- information spreads among player base
- more people join
- initial group who discovered issue start to complain due to competition
- latecomers start to complain about competition
- news reach DEVs - they decide to patch an issue
- source goes dry, early exploiters QQ because they lost easy money source, latecomers QQ because they cannot use easy money source
- lucky ones who amassed tons of credits buy whatever they like...
- ... and start to PWN in whichever are they play
- which leads to QQ threads how game is lacking/too easy/etc.
- DEVs notice that credits are too easy to come by and nerf official credit sources
- people like me get hit by a ricochet - no assets, no sources for easy money and official sources got already nerfed so time to get X-goal got extended while exploiters enjoy their billion of credits.

In my country there is a saying: "Land Lord's fault, peasant got hung". I know it may sound like a QQ from myself and cheap revenge but I'm all about exploits being revealed and got rid.