Horizons Elite Dangerous: The Faux MMO

[Dbrn47]

"A massively multiplayer online game (MMOG or MMO) is an online game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously in the same instance (or world)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_game

Elite does not do this.

Yes it does. I think the record is 103 players in an instance during the current distant worlds expedition. Otherwise it's around 32 in an instance in the bubble, which is considered massively multiplayer. Again, it's an old term, fact remains that the game is capable of supporting a large number simultaneously.

 

[Sandmann]

"A massively multiplayer online game (MMOG or MMO) is an online game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously in the same instance (or world)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_game

Elite does not do this.

That depends on your definition of "large". By modern standards ED's instances are small, but by the standard of when the term "MMO" (early 1990's) was coined ED measures up as quite normal. Just because ED doesn't have all the features that some other MMO's have (or more importantly, just because it doesn't have the features you WANT) doesn't mean it's not an MMO.

 

[ffr]

By modern standards ED's instances are small, but by the standard of when the term "MMO" (early 1990's) was coined ED measures up as quite normal.

OK, so ED was an MMO (when it didn't exist) in the 1990's.

That doesn't make it an MMO now in 2016.

 

[GluttonyFang]

You have made a mistake if you invested in ED expecting a MMO (in an honest sense, not technical).

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

"Same instance (or world)"

Continues:
"MMOGs can enable players to cooperate and compete with each other on a large scale, and sometimes to interact meaningfully with people around the world."

Elite does this.

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

Suggestions
Form player clan/fleet and align with a faction, gain access to special ships and discounts
PVP events that are only players with bare minimum ai ships (assault defend colony or crippled capital ship)

Once again:

Big guilds and clans are in the game, they have well set up systems which means they get along fine without the need for FD to pander to them.

Then you get to the bit I have quoted. Entitlement. Why should a group get special ships? Why are you now wanting content that is locked for a huge number of players?

Special discounts just because you play with friends? What utter nonsense. Just as the poster yesterday who wanted special multicrew ships only to be added - get over the fact you play with friends and start to try and balance your ideas with the entire player base not just yourself.

What you want could result in the game being torn apart by adding content for a certain group of players that has no value to the rest, no doubt you would want these ships to be powerful and to have special stuff they can do that no-one else can do.

Sorry for the rant but unless content is for all players then it is just another wedge in the community or nail in the coffin.

 

[Sanderson]

I have to ask, how many people do you usually run into in the vastness that is our galaxy? Realistically, the chances are astronomical. Even if every single ED/H player was miraculously in the same instance, the odds (unless staged) would be so low you'd be better off playing a lottery. Especially once you get a bit away from the typical starting areas.

I kinda like the solidarity, makes meeting a fellow cmdr even more special and eventful. Even more so if that cmdr happens to be a 36 year old drop dead gorgeous female that needs a ride to the nearest station.......errrr........wait, that's not part of the game. I made that part up myself, space dementia and all....

 

[Sandmann]

OK, so ED was an MMO (when it didn't exist) in the 1990's.

That doesn't make it an MMO now in 2016.

A car made in 1910 is still a car, even if it's not modern. It's not what YOU expect from an MMO, that doesn't mean it's not an MMO. All these things you feel are "required" for a game to be an MMO are only requirements in your head, not within any recognised definition.

Seriously, why all the complaints that this isn't the game you want to play? If you don't like it, don't play it. If you like it, play it.

You have made a mistake if you invested in ED expecting a MMO (in an honest sense, not technical).

In the sense that it doesn't meet his - and apparently (unsurprisingly) your - definition, yes. It is however an MMO, it's just not what YOU WANT from an MMO.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Sorry for the rant but unless content is for all players then it is just another wedge in the community or nail in the coffin.

Can't wait for SC to start, so they can all go there and complain that the sky is exactly the wrong shade of orange.

 

[metatheurgist]

Can't wait for SC to start, so they can all go there and complain that the sky is exactly the wrong shade of orange.

Damn that man for being a useless shyster.

 

[GluttonyFang]

In the sense that it doesn't meet his - and apparently (unsurprisingly) your - definition, yes. It is however an MMO, it's just not what YOU WANT from an MMO.

Well, what I mean is if we really throw all the technical terms out of the way, the modern understanding of MMO definitely excludes ED as an example, to the point where using this tag seems misleading to various degrees.

FD is free to be innovative, but I honestly don't see ED being a MMO in this contemporary era at this time.

Edit:

The best I can give it at the time is a tag of "Pseudo-MMO."

 

[tomalus]

Ed is not an mmo, its a joke multiplayer wise. Nothing is scaled to more players it actualy penalizes you if you do anything in a group.Real mmo have scaled content to either a fixed number of players requred or it scales by number of players in an instance,ed has nothing it only spawns instances with maximum number of players the rest is scaled for solo play (rewards,enemies,events)

 

[Sanderson]

Ed is not an mmo, its a joke multiplayer wise. Nothing is scaled to more players it actualy penalizes you if you do anything in a group.Real mmo have scaled content to either a fixed number of players requred or it scales by number of players in an instance,ed has nothing it only spawns instances with maximum number of players the rest is scaled for solo play (rewards,enemies,events)

It is a bit of a stretch calling it an MMO. Then again, so was the "mood piece" trailers (see avatar) and a lot of other things. Marketing, turning a Chevrolet Chevette (My first car *shiver*) into a "Luxury Landscape Yacht" is their, often "misleading" job.

Of course, "Technically" is always the answer ain't it?

My complaint, on this subject, if I may, is that Stations.platforms, etc could use a fair bit more population and activity, especially when it comes to other real players. Not that it would be more realistic, just more fun. Never was a fan of the "instance" thing, that's just a marketing word for separated into small groups, if even that.

So, while "technically" a MMO, we all know it's not, but that's ok as making ED/H a true MMO isn't possible with FD's current tech.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Well, what I mean is if we really throw all the technical terms out of the way, the modern understanding of MMO definitely excludes ED as an example, to the point where using this tag seems misleading to various degrees.

FD is free to be innovative, but I honestly don't see ED being a MMO in this contemporary era at this time.

"The modern understanding", do you have a citation of what that means? Must be a good one as well since in ye olde understanding, which was quoted earlier, it fits the definition of MMO rather well. So I'm wondering where the misleading to various degrees arrives from.

 

[CDR Michael Darkmoor]

I have to ask, how many people do you usually run into in the vastness that is our galaxy? Realistically, the chances are astronomical. Even if every single ED/H player was miraculously in the same instance, the odds (unless staged) would be so low you'd be better off playing a lottery. Especially once you get a bit away from the typical starting areas.

I kinda like the solidarity, makes meeting a fellow cmdr even more special and eventful. Even more so if that cmdr happens to be a 36 year old drop dead gorgeous female that needs a ride to the nearest station.......errrr........wait, that's not part of the game. I made that part up myself, space dementia and all....

-
Personally... I "run into" about 10 to 40 people a day.... and that is OUT IN THE MIDDLE of the galaxy...away from the Bibble --er..Bubble (and ok... it is just a tad bit "staged", but only in so far as the framework of the expedition goes... No one is required to be in contact with each other...but they CHOOSE to nevertheless)
The contacts are voluntary... civilized... and extend beyond the game mechanic into other media. There is a commonality most of the participants share...
-
If that isn't MMO - What is? The limitation (of imagination) one places around a "property" cannot erase the reality of the neighborhood beyond the white picket fence it surrounds.
-
Of course... it could (as pointed out by Sanderson ) all be a really bright hallucination brought on by (Turgen's Quote) "Red Nebula Blindness!"

 

[GluttonyFang]

"The modern understanding", do you have a citation of what that means? Must be a good one as well since in ye olde understanding, which was quoted earlier, it fits the definition of MMO rather well. So I'm wondering where the misleading to various degrees arrives from.

Before someone takes a bite out of me, I am not saying that ED is terrible because it isn't similar to another modern MMO, I am merely criticizing the tag it uses. The following list of traits aren't meant to be used to "bash the game."

-Modes of play that influence a competitive meta and gain asset that some players cannot access to aid nor intervene
-Extremely limited functional number of players within an instance that does not reflect the idea of "massiveness"
-Inconsequential combat logging during competitive play with other players
-Extremely barebone multiplayer support and nonexistent guild mechanic
-Punish cooperative play with little to no compensation

I can't really find any modern MMO that has a healthy population that fits under this and have a MMO tag.

 

[Sandmann]

-Modes of play that influence a competitive meta and gain asset that some players cannot access to aid nor intervene
-Extremely limited functional number of players within an instance that does not reflect the idea of "massiveness"
-Inconsequential combat logging during competitive play with other players
-Extremely barebone multiplayer support and nonexistent guild mechanic
-Punish cooperative play with little to no compensation

No argument, all this is true, and even though they have become common recently none of these are REQUIRED for it to be an MMO though. At the end of the day this is just a pointless argument over semantics - if you like the game play it, if you don't like it play something else.

 

[GluttonyFang]

if you like the game play it, if you don't like it play something else.

I am in agreement.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Before someone takes a bite out of me, I am not saying that ED is terrible because it isn't similar to another modern MMO, I am merely criticizing the tag it uses. The following list of traits aren't meant to be used to "bash the game."

I didn't get that impression. I just want to know, are you using some sort of objective definition of MMO, or are you using a subjective one. Which is why I asked for a citation instead of a tailor made subjective MMO definition you're sure to make to fit your argument.

Something like this:

-Modes of play that influence a competitive meta and gain asset that some players cannot access to aid nor intervene
-Extremely limited functional number of players within an instance that does not reflect the idea of "massiveness"
-Inconsequential combat logging during competitive play with other players
-Extremely barebone multiplayer support and nonexistent guild mechanic
-Punish cooperative play with little to no compensation

I can't really find any modern MMO that has a healthy population that fits under this and have a MMO tag.

So when you say things like:
"the modern understanding of MMO definitely excludes ED as an example" I'll add a healthy dose of your humble opinion in the mix. Surely not anything "definite", since I don't take the word of Gluttony Fang as being the arbiter of what constitutes an MMO, however nice a chap he may be.

Also, if you have nothing to offer besides subjectiveness, I feel that using this tag does not seem misleading to various degrees to me when the only definition I can find, although it's far from conclusive since it's from Wiki, agrees with calling Elite an MMO.


Now, let me clarify myself as well. I'm not arguing this point because I think I feel it's important that Elite is called an MMO. You can call it a Spacy Pewy Fly-y Game Type of Thing for all I'm concerned. What I do wonder about is why are people tacking extra tailor made criteria onto the definition of an MMO just so they can go: It's not an MMO.

So, if anyone has a more objective and accepted definition of an MMO handy, preferably one that's not made up on the fly to suit the argument, which does indeed exclude Elite as an MMO, I'd like to see that. And if that indeed excludes Elite, well there you go, why didn't you post that before and spare us all a lot of discussion

 

[GluttonyFang]

I didn't get that impression. I just want to know, are you using some sort of objective definition of MMO, or are you using a subjective one. Which is why I asked for a citation instead of a tailor made subjective MMO definition you're sure to make to fit your argument.

I don't subscribe to objectivity, only intersubjectivity and subjectivity. I'm more Foucault and Nietzsche than Plato/Aristotle/Kant. Also that first paragraph was used to address people that will potentially snipe my post that most likely will spurt strawman in response.

Something like this:


So when you say things like:
"the modern understanding of MMO definitely excludes ED as an example" I'll add a healthy dose of your humble opinion in the mix. Surely not anything "definite", since I don't take the word of Gluttony Fang as being the arbiter of what constitutes an MMO, however nice a chap he may be.

Also, if you have nothing to offer besides subjectiveness, I feel that using this tag does not seem misleading to various degrees to me when the only definition I can find, although it's far from conclusive since it's from Wiki, agrees with calling Elite an MMO.

Well, Wiki is a terrible source for scholarly debates. If we consider the procedure of conventional production of language in Hobbes and Rousseau, then the definition of a MMO shifts constantly and allows a great deal of imagination, this is what I mean when I explained my stance on objectivity and subjectivity. Either we allow reasoned argument over the definition of concept or we don't speak of a concept at all.

 

[Sanderson]

-
Personally... I "run into" about 10 to 40 people a day.... and that is OUT IN THE MIDDLE of the galaxy...away from the Bibble --er..Bubble (and ok... it is just a tad bit "staged", but only in so far as the framework of the expedition goes... No one is required to be in contact with each other...but they CHOOSE to nevertheless)
The contacts are voluntary... civilized... and extend beyond the game mechanic into other media. There is a commonality most of the participants share...
-
If that isn't MMO - What is? The limitation (of imagination) one places around a "property" cannot erase the reality of the neighborhood beyond the white picket fence it surrounds.
-
Of course... it could (as pointed out by Sanderson ) all be a really bright hallucination brought on by (Turgen's Quote) "Red Nebula Blindness!"

This is why I'm no good at trading, I'm like the blue guy:

[video=youtube;uOrG-LDBce4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOrG-LDBce4[/video]