Elite IS too easy

[Cheese Helmet]

Take flight and experience life as a starship commander in the dangerous galaxy of the 34th century.

The game keeps the player from encountering danger, even protects them from it, and eliminates problems before the player can solve them.

example, some argue the thargoids shouldn’t affect people if they don’t want them to. Them not doing so is antithetical to a living sandbox and the stated experience the game is allegedly trying to deliver. It’d be like the bgs states not affecting commodities markets without the player wanting them to. If the game is going to function, so that as the environment changes, so too does how you react to it, then it needs to hold that theme. Diverting from it when it would be the most interesting/dangerous only does a disservice to the game, the players, and doesn’t help anyone. It’s just more elimination of possibly gameplay loops for the sake of a hand wave. This is a common theme, that backed up with grindy game design choices, that leads to uninteresting gameplay.

sticking with the thargoid example. If you were actually actively attacked and pursued by thargoids in these systems they are seiging, thargoids which can apparently take out capital ships, all of a sudden you have a problem to solves. Problems necessitate solutions. Solutions require thinking, problem solving. Thinking and problem solving creates emergent gameplay.

so because fdev eliminates the problem for you, they also eliminate everything attached to solving that problem. that is a problem throughout the game as a whole, and is why the game feels disjointed and seperate. Nothing places itself in front of the player. Or worse, what they do place in front of you is grind so you’re just dodging grind. Fdev just takes the interesting problems away so you never have to problem solve, leaving only the problem of get A for B. And that leads to stale and boring gameplay, and a dissatisfied player base, and a game not delivering on the experience it’s trying to deliver.

The thargoids are but one example, you can look all across the game see how nothing is ever interjected into the world in a meaningful way.

 

[Vasco Sapien]

Well, the galaxy was made a much safer place back during the 24½th Century when a certain hero aquired the Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator for the federation.

 

[Factabulous]

You take care of your battery level better than that Braben guy - 10/10!

 

[Ganogati]

The game keeps the player from encountering danger, even protects them from it, and eliminates problems before the player can solve them.

example, some argue the thargoids shouldn’t affect people if they don’t want them to. Them not doing so is antithetical to a living sandbox and the stated experience the game is allegedly trying to deliver. It’d be like the bgs states not affecting commodities markets without the player wanting them to. If the game is going to function so that as the environment changes, so too does how you react to it, then it needs to hold that theme. Diverting from it when it would be the most interesting only does a disservice to the game, the players, and doesn’t help anyone. It’s just more elimination of possibly gameplay loops for the sake of a hand wave.

sticking with the example. If you were actually actively attacked and pursued by thargoids in these systems they are seiging, thargoids which can apparently take out capital ships, all of a sudden you have a problem to solves. Problems necessitate solutions. Solutions require thinking, problem solving. Thinking and problem solving creates emergent gameplay.

so because fdev eliminates the problem for you, they also eliminate everything attached to solving that problem. that is a problem throughout the game as a whole, and is why the game feels disjointed and seperate. Nothing places itself in front of the player. Fdev just takes the problems away so you never have to problem solve. And that leads to stale and boring gameplay, and a dissatisfied player base, and a game not delivering on the experience it’s trying to deliver.

I overall agree with this, though I believe that more than anything there' s a danger "imbalance". I would expect in very high security, "core" sectors to an empire, that it will keep me safe. If a player tries to kill me, police will save me. If Thargoids try to kill me, the military will save me. I will be in danger, but ultimately I stand a better chance of getting rescued than not. This is contrary to the current position of Thargoids just not coming anywhere near me, or incursioning at all into our space, and players popping people like a balloon while the police show up to do the paperwork after.

As you move out of core space, you should be entering dangerous territory. It should be scary out there. At the same time, it shouldn't be miserably dangerous, to the point where you feel like the game is just bullying you lol. Not everyone wants to deal with that.

Ultimately, I feel very safe in ED when I'm in Mobius or solo, and I feel like quitting when I'm in open. I feel like there's no middle ground. I'd like a middle ground, where I feel like I'm in danger (and may actually be), but don't feel like the danger is more akin to a jump-scare that you can't protect from and just get annoyed with after a while.

 

[Nasc]

Space is dangerous. Full of monsters and fantastical creatures.

 

[Old Duck]

Wait, this thread isn't about Solo vs. Open? Huh, didn't see that coming. As for Thargoids, they are utterly disappointing. Entire systems should have fallen to the Thargoids, with stations DESTROYED and planets enslaved. I like the station rescue missions, but this should be followed by a great big BOOM and a debris field.

Of course we know that all stations with Kickstarter names would likely be safe, so even this amazing invasion I envision would be neutered. Too bad..

But yes, the Thargoid reveal is one of the most disappointing things I've experienced since the sixth season of LOST. Frontier would have been better to let the Thargoids stay "dead" and focus on a galactic war between the Empire and Federation. Oh well, it's too late now!

 

[Ganogati]

But yes, the Thargoid reveal is one of the most disappointing things I've experienced since the sixth season of LOST. Frontier would have been better to let the Thargoids stay "dead" and focus on a galactic war between the Empire and Federation. Oh well, it's too late now!

The first reveal actually got me to come play ED for the first time. It had made the news, like Wired kinda thing, and I thought it sounded absolutely amazing. The thing I didn't realize at the time was that you had to go to the Thargoids, they wouldn't come to you or roam around. Over the next few years I realized I had played the entire time and never actually seen a Thargoid.

By this point I have no interest. There are so many videos of people blowing up thargoids using every ship even down to Sidewinders that I no longer feel like they are this scary menace. They are in a sector, waiting for me to get the right guns to come blow up them up like a carnival game, and that's about it. One day I'll go gawk at them like everyone else, but for now I'll just keep doing other more interesting things.

 

[Old Duck]

The first reveal actually got me to come play ED for the first time. It had made the news, like Wired kinda thing, and I thought it sounded absolutely amazing. The thing I didn't realize at the time was that you had to go to the Thargoids, they wouldn't come to you or roam around. Over the next few years I realized I had played the entire time and never actually seen a Thargoid.

By this point I have no interest. There are so many videos of people blowing up thargoids using every ship even down to Sidewinders that I no longer feel like they are this scary menace. They are in a sector, waiting for me to get the right guns to come blow up them up like a carnival game, and that's about it. One day I'll go gawk at them like everyone else, but for now I'll just keep doing other more interesting things.

If I could mod the game to this extent, I would replace the models of the ships gankers fly (as I see them on my screen) with Thargoid ships. Then, and only then, would Thargoids be scary! (But only in Open)

 

[Flimley]

I play elite dangerous because, I want to be part of the soluuuuution not part of the probleeeerm.
yes it is a very easy game, it’s all just a matter of time.
Flimley

 

[dm0815]

Why do people give some much credit to these marketing babble? The people who wrote this probably never played Elite in the first place.

 

[uncle bulgaria]

Well, the galaxy was made a much safer place back during the 24½th Century when a certain hero aquired the Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator for the federation.

That pesky Earth really obscures my view of Venus.

 

[Ganogati]

If I could mod the game to this extent, I would replace the models of the ships gankers fly (as I see them on my screen) with Thargoid ships. Then, and only then, would Thargoids be scary! (But only in Open)

...

...

player thargoid. Like how in Star Trek Online, after you achieve a certain rank, you can be Klingons. Imagine if combat Elite (or even just triple elite) players could load the game as a Thargoid and run incursions into player space. The entire might of the Imperials/Federation/whoever else will be after you, and you fly around just being a Thargoid jerk to everyone for as long as you can. Maybe some sort of cooldown when you lose your ship.

 

[Cheese Helmet]

So

Wait, this thread isn't about Solo vs. Open? Huh, didn't see that coming. As for Thargoids, they are utterly disappointing. Entire systems should have fallen to the Thargoids, with stations DESTROYED and planets enslaved. I like the station rescue missions, but this should be followed by a great big BOOM and a debris field.

Of course we know that all stations with Kickstarter names would likely be safe, so even this amazing invasion I envision would be neutered. Too bad..

But yes, the Thargoid reveal is one of the most disappointing things I've experienced since the sixth season of LOST. Frontier would have been better to let the Thargoids stay "dead" and focus on a galactic war between the Empire and Federation. Oh well, it's too late now!

solo v open is but one part of the picture I’m looking at. I focused on the thargoid example because it’s viewed more neutrally

 

[Robert Maynard]

Hello Commander Ozram!

I think you are perhaps conflating two separate issues: the amount of challenge present in each game mode, and player versus player interactions. I think these are so fundamentally different that comparisons might not be particularly useful.

The challenge of playing in solo being too low (without taking sides) is a valid argument to make, although it might better be phrased as "the opportunities for challenge are too low in Elite Dangerous". It's actually something we are interested in looking at.

However, cranking up difficulty will not make Open more enticing. Conflict between actual people, even within a game, is a very different matter to taking on NPC ships. It has many psychological and social elements that would otherwise not be present. Incidentally, increasing the difficulty of NPC engagements would also make Open harder rather than fairer, so there's also that.

Perhaps the bottom line is the different modes are there to enable Commanders to play how they want to. We don't want everyone to play in Open because we want some sort of Armageddon PvP scenario. We just think that playing with other people, both cooperatively and adversarial, can be more fun, which is why we advocate Open play.

So in the context of a karma system, people playing in Private Group or Solo mode are not relevant. Why should folk in Open be interested in what goes on there? This is about making player versus player interactions more equitable in Open, getting more folk in there, surely?

 

[Old Duck]

I play elite dangerous because, I want to be part of the soluuuuution not part of the probleeeerm.

Then dress as a Thargoid and come set the Bubble on fire. Problem solved!

 

[Brrokk]

View attachment 170768
Take flight and experience life as a starship commander in the dangerous galaxy of the 34th century.

The game keeps the player from encountering danger, even protects them from it, and eliminates problems before the player can solve them.

example, some argue the thargoids shouldn’t affect people if they don’t want them to. Them not doing so is antithetical to a living sandbox and the stated experience the game is allegedly trying to deliver. It’d be like the bgs states not affecting commodities markets without the player wanting them to. If the game is going to function, so that as the environment changes, so too does how you react to it, then it needs to hold that theme. Diverting from it when it would be the most interesting/dangerous only does a disservice to the game, the players, and doesn’t help anyone. It’s just more elimination of possibly gameplay loops for the sake of a hand wave. This is a common theme, that backed up with grindy game design choices, that leads to uninteresting gameplay.

sticking with the thargoid example. If you were actually actively attacked and pursued by thargoids in these systems they are seiging, thargoids which can apparently take out capital ships, all of a sudden you have a problem to solves. Problems necessitate solutions. Solutions require thinking, problem solving. Thinking and problem solving creates emergent gameplay.

so because fdev eliminates the problem for you, they also eliminate everything attached to solving that problem. that is a problem throughout the game as a whole, and is why the game feels disjointed and seperate. Nothing places itself in front of the player. Or worse, what they do place in front of you is grind so you’re just dodging grind. Fdev just takes the interesting problems away so you never have to problem solve, leaving only the problem of get A for B. And that leads to stale and boring gameplay, and a dissatisfied player base, and a game not delivering on the experience it’s trying to deliver.

The thargoids are but one example, you can look all across the game see how nothing is ever interjected into the world in a meaningful way.

I don't agree, I play to relax and I think it's dangerous enough.

Do you really want to be interdicted by Thargoids when you're in your plasma FdL with no AX weapons, no xeno scanner, no shutdown pulse neutraliser and no decontamination limpets?

 

[Cheese Helmet]

...

Not the point of my topic AT ALL. Try reading friendo. Or you can keep pulling that same plow through that same field in the same pattern. Up to you

 

[Cheese Helmet]

I don't agree, I play to relax and I think it's dangerous enough.

Do you really want to be interdicted by Thargoids when you're in your plasma FdL with no AX weapons, no xeno scanner, no shutdown pulse neutraliser and no decontamination limpets?

Yes. If I’m not paying attention and I jump into a thargoids incursion system I should hyperdicted on the way in and attacked. If I’m not checking the map that’s on me

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Okay I'll fess up :

Back during the Kickstarter, it all sounded mildly interesting - but I stopped reading, bought it and they really had sold it to me when I read that they had Cookies

PS.
Arguably... they wrote "iconic" ELITE. They never wrote "grindy" - but obviously yeah... things got severely "fast-pathed" after a few years.
I guess we went from "quite a bit too far-stretched and grindy" to where we are now (quick ELITE ranks).

I take it, at some point we had - and passed - some kind of "yeah, that should be an alright balance" ... but blasted by it.

 

[Brrokk]

Not the point of my topic AT ALL. Try reading friendo. Or you can keep pulling that same plow through that same field in the same pattern. Up to you

Huh? Thread title says Elite is too easy. I disagree. That's all.