Elite - not dangerous

G.man

G.man
For a space simulation game, Elite Dangerous has lost all sense of realism. Over the years, they’ve added and buffed rewards while minimizing or removing risks so it just doesn't feel real anymore.

In what galaxy could you:
  • Get full bounties for a couple pew-pew shots when cops do all the damage?
  • Always escape interdiction from every pirate?
  • Hardly get interdicted by cops when wanted or carrying illegal goods even in high security systems?
  • Have a 5% rebuy insurance for any ship but you don’t pay for any insurance installments??? What company would offer that?
  • Make millions in mining risk free?
  • Sell millions in LTDs in a never ending gold rush due to a broken supply/demand system?
  • Buy your OWN fleet carrier? For a squadron - ok. Single commander - just no.
There is no suspension of disbelief. It’s just disbelief. They kept making it easier to make money while taking away or minimizing risks.

This isn’t an argument to change the game since there are many players who are perfectly happy with their fleet carriers. There’s lots of explorers who are perfectly happy roaming the galaxy. And it’s still a tough game for new players.

But there should be a realism mode for those veteran players who want to experience ED as a more genuine space sim the way it was meant to be played. If you want big ships and gobs of cash, it should be really tough to get there just like in the original Elite game.

Mining should only be in Res Zones (this was the original intent) and the best areas, (pristine metallic rings, hotspots) should be in a Haz Res. Cops should hop into low, medium, high Res areas based on system security level only when a crime has been committed, just like with interdictions and not constantly patrol the area.

Interdiction evasion from NPCs should be much more difficult and based on your ship’s maneuverability.

Bounty hunting payout should be based on damage dealt. You do most of the damage, you get most of the bounty.

Mission payouts should be nerfed significantly and rewards should be based on risk and time/effort needed.

Trade profits should be nerfed especially for tritium, military fabrics, basic meds in Outbreak (or add significant risk if hauling those commodities) but smuggling illegal commodities should be buffed due to the additional risk.

Explo data should be nerfed.

And yes, it should be Open Only.

No easy money. Credits will feel rightfully earned. Pirating will be a legitimate profession again (legitimately illegitimate?). There won’t be just one or two dominant ways to generate credits. Trader, miner, smuggler, bounty hunter, salvager will all be viable careers.

I started playing with self-imposed rules a couple years ago to try to recreate this more realistic galaxy and after hundreds of hours of testing, they work reasonably well (e.g. submitting to all interdictions) but it would be far better to have a separate mode to play from scratch. I’m constantly resetting my accounts and tweaking these rules but would love if others could help better refine these while I hope longingly that FDev adds this new mode of gameplay (which I would gladly pay for). And it shouldn’t be hard to implement since nothing would need to be added to the game, just tweak the existing mechanics.

But since that’s not likely, my dream is to have a good-sized veteran player group where everyone follows and tweaks these rules for the most realistic gameplay possible. Violators will be kicked. Gankers would be welcomed! The galaxy should be a dangerous place!

If you’re interested in joining a group of us who play this way and rediscover this great game or just watch us flail around the galaxy, check us out. We need more feedback and based on a lot of forum posts, I think there are a lot of experienced players out there who would love to play this way (or already play with similar rules).

discord.gg

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Here are the current rules:


ED Veteran Rules

OPEN only
Must submit to all NPC interdictions. Can evade player interdictions.

Reset your commander or get a new account
Get standard sidey loadout without SRV

Bounty Hunting: (no help from cops). Only in low/medium/high Res areas or Nav Beacon in Anarchy systems (KWS required) or Haz Res/CNB in any system.

Exploration: No explo data until Entrepreneur.

Mining: Can only mine in Res areas until Tycoon. Must stay near center of Res areas.

Missions:
  • Penniless: No missions
  • Mostly penniless: < 10K mission reward
  • Peddler: < 25K mission reward
  • Dealer < 50K mission reward
  • Merchant: < 100K mission reward
  • Broker: < 250K mission reward
  • Entrepreneur: Can do any mission
  • Exceptions: Can do any mining missions or fed/imperial rank up missions regardless of trade rank.
PAX: Only Saud Kruger ships can use Business, First or Luxury class PAX modules.

Trading: No profit margins > 2500 per ton until Broker.

Optional Rules (bold are recommended)
Crimes against me: OFF/ON
Engineering: Yes/No
3rd party apps (outfitting): Yes/No
3rd party apps (trade): Yes/No
3rd party apps (mining spots): Yes/No
Ship loss: 50% rebuy, lose the ship, permadeath
 

Brrokk

Brrokk
You've asked for "realism" in space. Don't you realise that no spaceship ever takes off unless the whole team on the ground and the crew are convinced that everything is as safe as it can be made? What's more, the size of a solar system should rule out the police finding another ship. Interdiction itself can't be assessed for realism because it's impossible anyway according to what we know of physics, (but so is supercruise, so we can allow it).

I don't think you really mean "realism"; you're simply asking for excitement. But there you have to note that people find excitement in different game activities and want different levels of it. ED therefore sensibly makes it optional so that we can all have what we want.
 

G.man

G.man
Brrokk said:
You've asked for "realism" in space. Don't you realise that no spaceship ever takes off unless the whole team on the ground and the crew are convinced that everything is as safe as it can be made? What's more, the size of a solar system should rule out the police finding another ship. Interdiction itself can't be assessed for realism because it's impossible anyway according to what we know of physics, (but so is supercruise, so we can allow it).

I don't think you really mean "realism"; you're simply asking for excitement. But there you have to note that people find excitement in different game activities and want different levels of it. ED therefore sensibly makes it optional so that we can all have what we want.
Click to expand...

Good point. Maybe a difficulty level is a better description than realism. And ED is one of the few games that doesn’t have a difficulty level.
 

Bottom Hat

Bottom Hat
I don't agree with all you have written, but I do strongly commend you for not reacting like a baby when someone criticises or disagrees with you.

I half expected, after reading your long post, that people would be a bit critical as they have been, but then to see a bunch of angry stuff going back and forth, so kudos for being an adult!

And I don't mean to be patronising in the slightest - your young thread has made a pleasant change OP :)



PS - is what you're smoking any good though?!
 

MarkyH

M
G.man said:
For a space simulation game, Elite Dangerous has lost all sense of realism. Over the years, they’ve added and buffed rewards while minimizing or removing risks so it just doesn't feel real anymore.

In what galaxy could you:
  • Get full bounties for a couple pew-pew shots when cops do all the damage?
  • Always escape interdiction from every pirate?
  • Hardly get interdicted by cops when wanted or carrying illegal goods even in high security systems?
  • Have a 5% rebuy insurance for any ship but you don’t pay for any insurance installments??? What company would offer that?
  • Make millions in mining risk free?
  • Sell millions in LTDs in a never ending gold rush due to a broken supply/demand system?
  • Buy your OWN fleet carrier? For a squadron - ok. Single commander - just no.
There is no suspension of disbelief. It’s just disbelief. They kept making it easier to make money while taking away or minimizing risks.

This isn’t an argument to change the game since there are many players who are perfectly happy with their fleet carriers. There’s lots of explorers who are perfectly happy roaming the galaxy. And it’s still a tough game for new players.

But there should be a realism mode for those veteran players who want to experience ED as a more genuine space sim the way it was meant to be played. If you want big ships and gobs of cash, it should be really tough to get there just like in the original Elite game.

Mining should only be in Res Zones (this was the original intent) and the best areas, (pristine metallic rings, hotspots) should be in a Haz Res. Cops should hop into low, medium, high Res areas based on system security level only when a crime has been committed, just like with interdictions and not constantly patrol the area.

Interdiction evasion from NPCs should be much more difficult and based on your ship’s maneuverability.

Bounty hunting payout should be based on damage dealt. You do most of the damage, you get most of the bounty.

Mission payouts should be nerfed significantly and rewards should be based on risk and time/effort needed.

Trade profits should be nerfed especially for tritium, military fabrics, basic meds in Outbreak (or add significant risk if hauling those commodities) but smuggling illegal commodities should be buffed due to the additional risk.

Explo data should be nerfed.

And yes, it should be Open Only.

No easy money. Credits will feel rightfully earned. Pirating will be a legitimate profession again (legitimately illegitimate?). There won’t be just one or two dominant ways to generate credits. Trader, miner, smuggler, bounty hunter, salvager will all be viable careers.

I started playing with self-imposed rules a couple years ago to try to recreate this more realistic galaxy and after hundreds of hours of testing, they work reasonably well (e.g. submitting to all interdictions) but it would be far better to have a separate mode to play from scratch. I’m constantly resetting my accounts and tweaking these rules but would love if others could help better refine these while I hope longingly that FDev adds this new mode of gameplay (which I would gladly pay for). And it shouldn’t be hard to implement since nothing would need to be added to the game, just tweak the existing mechanics.

But since that’s not likely, my dream is to have a good-sized veteran player group where everyone follows and tweaks these rules for the most realistic gameplay possible. Violators will be kicked. Gankers would be welcomed! The galaxy should be a dangerous place!

If you’re interested in joining a group of us who play this way and rediscover this great game or just watch us flail around the galaxy, check us out. We need more feedback and based on a lot of forum posts, I think there are a lot of experienced players out there who would love to play this way (or already play with similar rules).

discord.gg

Discord - Group Chat That’s All Fun & Games

Discord is great for playing games and chilling with friends, or even building a worldwide community. Customize your own space to talk, play, and hang out.
discord.gg discord.gg


Here are the current rules:


ED Veteran Rules

OPEN only
Must submit to all NPC interdictions. Can evade player interdictions.

Reset your commander or get a new account
Get standard sidey loadout without SRV

Bounty Hunting: (no help from cops). Only in low/medium/high Res areas or Nav Beacon in Anarchy systems (KWS required) or Haz Res/CNB in any system.

Exploration: No explo data until Entrepreneur.

Mining: Can only mine in Res areas until Tycoon. Must stay near center of Res areas.

Missions:
  • Penniless: No missions
  • Mostly penniless: < 10K mission reward
  • Peddler: < 25K mission reward
  • Dealer < 50K mission reward
  • Merchant: < 100K mission reward
  • Broker: < 250K mission reward
  • Entrepreneur: Can do any mission
  • Exceptions: Can do any mining missions or fed/imperial rank up missions regardless of trade rank.
PAX: Only Saud Kruger ships can use Business, First or Luxury class PAX modules.

Trading: No profit margins > 2500 per ton until Broker.

Optional Rules (bold are recommended)
Crimes against me: OFF/ON
Engineering: Yes/No
3rd party apps (outfitting): Yes/No
3rd party apps (trade): Yes/No
3rd party apps (mining spots): Yes/No
Ship loss: 50% rebuy, lose the ship, permadeath
Click to expand...

If you want risk and realism, buy any medium or large ship, kit it out how you like, Full A rated, whatever, but must have at least 32 t cargo. But no engineering, Guardian upgrades ok though.

Now fill the cargo hold with LTD, fly, in open , not a PG , to "New Borann" (no one can remember it's true system name!) , change your ship name to "I Carry LTD, PVP me!" . And just cruise around that system in open , in and out of the mining rings for a few hours an evening.

You will get all the danger and risk and realism you could ever want, you will realise PVP intradiction are almost impossible to evade compared to NPC, and Pirating is almost exclusively "kill first, negotiate for cargo 2nd rules" .

Have fun.
 

[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos

[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos
Bottom Hat said:
I don't agree with all you have written, but I do strongly commend you for not reacting like a baby when someone criticises or disagrees with you.

I half expected, after reading your long post, that people would be a bit critical as they have been, but then to see a bunch of angry stuff going back and forth, so kudos for being an adult!

And I don't mean to be patronising in the slightest - your young thread has made a pleasant change OP :)



PS - is what you're smoking any good though?!
Click to expand...

Yes I must agree and somewhat apologise for my abrupt tone, I'm just tired of reading threads where one of the options is to get me to pay a subscription.
 

Dagwit

Dagwit
G.man said:
Make millions in mining risk free?
Click to expand...

In my journey a year or so ago from Mostly Harmless to combat Elite I lost exactly one ship (pro tip: when running away from an Interceptor while farming Scouts in an AXCZ, you really want a ship faster than a Federal Gunship).

I've lost three ships while mining.

Anyway, I spent the first two years in the game pretty much entirely as a non-combatant. My interest in risk-reward was and remains zero; indeed, I'm a bit inclined to grind my teeth every time I hear the phrase.

Having said which, I wouldn't mind if inhabited Anarchy systems were made edgier for those who want edgier - as long as this didn't have any impact on the ability of those who don't want edgier to make Credits.

But this would probably require that inhabited Anarchies be removed from the BGS, so non-combatants don't lose access to the occasional bonanzas the BGS throws up; and anyway, the game currently makes no distinction, in route plotting for example, between inhabited and uninhabited Anarchy systems; and players not looking for trouble wouldn't appreciate being effectively locked out of the latter while getting from A to a distant B.

As for risk/reward, for those players who want risk isn't it its own reward?
 

G.man

G.man
Bottom Hat said:
I wasn't criticising that, it's something I don't agree with either personally mate. I just found it refreshing that the OP didn't open up on anyone with a differing opinion! Makes a pleasant change here lol!
Click to expand...

Thanks. And I specifically posted this as a suggestion for a mode to add to the game, NOT to change the game.

I also have a PS4 account (3 on PC) so yes the subscription requirement for Open only is problematic. But if the ED galaxy was made more dangerous with NPCs, then it could be risky enough in Solo.
 

Bottom Hat

Bottom Hat
G.man said:
Thanks. And I specifically posted this as a suggestion for a mode to add to the game, NOT to change the game.

I also have a PS4 account (3 on PC) so yes the subscription requirement for Open only is problematic. But if the ED galaxy was made more dangerous with NPCs, then it could be risky enough in Solo.
Click to expand...

Understood mate - you're entering a huge minefield though there - that'd be my only suggestion really. I've seen people approach it over many years, and there is a very strong anti-subscription lobby here.

I think I'd be against subscription as the game is, but as you were suggesting - it'd be a very different ballgame if the game was much more developed and involved for the subscription mode (if I understand you correctly?).

Just be ready in case there are any angry lobbyists waiting to post stuff at you, instead of at the things you're trying to discuss. I imagine you are a big boy (not really my business to know ;) ), but thought I'd mention it, as it is a topic that really gets some players' blood flowing!

I'm interested to see where this goes though, good thread OP :)



Edited because I can't spell much in my old man mode!
 

Rat Catcher

Rat Catcher
What is a veteran?

...nice list of suggestions, I'm sure there are some that would enjoy them, but as it is I find sufficient challenge in the game for the time being (y) (I have 3 accounts of which this is the newest)

I hope your group takes off and blossoms, although I will not be joining in the immediate future as I appreciate the choice to play as I wish at this time :)
 
Last edited:

dognosh

dognosh
G.man said:
For a space simulation game, Elite Dangerous has lost all sense of realism. Over the years, they’ve added and buffed rewards while minimizing or removing risks so it just doesn't feel real anymore.

In what galaxy could you:
  • Get full bounties for a couple pew-pew shots when cops do all the damage?
  • Always escape interdiction from every pirate?
  • Hardly get interdicted by cops when wanted or carrying illegal goods even in high security systems?
  • Have a 5% rebuy insurance for any ship but you don’t pay for any insurance installments??? What company would offer that?
  • Make millions in mining risk free?
  • Sell millions in LTDs in a never ending gold rush due to a broken supply/demand system?
  • Buy your OWN fleet carrier? For a squadron - ok. Single commander - just no.
There is no suspension of disbelief. It’s just disbelief. They kept making it easier to make money while taking away or minimizing risks.

This isn’t an argument to change the game since there are many players who are perfectly happy with their fleet carriers. There’s lots of explorers who are perfectly happy roaming the galaxy. And it’s still a tough game for new players.

But there should be a realism mode for those veteran players who want to experience ED as a more genuine space sim the way it was meant to be played. If you want big ships and gobs of cash, it should be really tough to get there just like in the original Elite game.

Mining should only be in Res Zones (this was the original intent) and the best areas, (pristine metallic rings, hotspots) should be in a Haz Res. Cops should hop into low, medium, high Res areas based on system security level only when a crime has been committed, just like with interdictions and not constantly patrol the area.

Interdiction evasion from NPCs should be much more difficult and based on your ship’s maneuverability.

Bounty hunting payout should be based on damage dealt. You do most of the damage, you get most of the bounty.

Mission payouts should be nerfed significantly and rewards should be based on risk and time/effort needed.

Trade profits should be nerfed especially for tritium, military fabrics, basic meds in Outbreak (or add significant risk if hauling those commodities) but smuggling illegal commodities should be buffed due to the additional risk.

Explo data should be nerfed.

And yes, it should be Open Only.

No easy money. Credits will feel rightfully earned. Pirating will be a legitimate profession again (legitimately illegitimate?). There won’t be just one or two dominant ways to generate credits. Trader, miner, smuggler, bounty hunter, salvager will all be viable careers.

I started playing with self-imposed rules a couple years ago to try to recreate this more realistic galaxy and after hundreds of hours of testing, they work reasonably well (e.g. submitting to all interdictions) but it would be far better to have a separate mode to play from scratch. I’m constantly resetting my accounts and tweaking these rules but would love if others could help better refine these while I hope longingly that FDev adds this new mode of gameplay (which I would gladly pay for). And it shouldn’t be hard to implement since nothing would need to be added to the game, just tweak the existing mechanics.

But since that’s not likely, my dream is to have a good-sized veteran player group where everyone follows and tweaks these rules for the most realistic gameplay possible. Violators will be kicked. Gankers would be welcomed! The galaxy should be a dangerous place!

If you’re interested in joining a group of us who play this way and rediscover this great game or just watch us flail around the galaxy, check us out. We need more feedback and based on a lot of forum posts, I think there are a lot of experienced players out there who would love to play this way (or already play with similar rules).

discord.gg

Discord - Group Chat That’s All Fun & Games

Discord is great for playing games and chilling with friends, or even building a worldwide community. Customize your own space to talk, play, and hang out.
discord.gg discord.gg


Here are the current rules:


ED Veteran Rules

OPEN only
Must submit to all NPC interdictions. Can evade player interdictions.

Reset your commander or get a new account
Get standard sidey loadout without SRV

Bounty Hunting: (no help from cops). Only in low/medium/high Res areas or Nav Beacon in Anarchy systems (KWS required) or Haz Res/CNB in any system.

Exploration: No explo data until Entrepreneur.

Mining: Can only mine in Res areas until Tycoon. Must stay near center of Res areas.

Missions:
  • Penniless: No missions
  • Mostly penniless: < 10K mission reward
  • Peddler: < 25K mission reward
  • Dealer < 50K mission reward
  • Merchant: < 100K mission reward
  • Broker: < 250K mission reward
  • Entrepreneur: Can do any mission
  • Exceptions: Can do any mining missions or fed/imperial rank up missions regardless of trade rank.
PAX: Only Saud Kruger ships can use Business, First or Luxury class PAX modules.

Trading: No profit margins > 2500 per ton until Broker.

Optional Rules (bold are recommended)
Crimes against me: OFF/ON
Engineering: Yes/No
3rd party apps (outfitting): Yes/No
3rd party apps (trade): Yes/No
3rd party apps (mining spots): Yes/No
Ship loss: 50% rebuy, lose the ship, permadeath
Click to expand...
I feel for you as this is the way you want to play it, and you have a right to voice your opinions on it !
Personally, apart from NPCs being too weak, I like it as it is :)
 
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