Elite Plastic Model Ship Kits

Or like me you get fed up waiting and have a go yourself ;). it's around 1/200 th scale based on some card model templates I printed out, still needs a bit of work though ;)

CVmF63h.jpg


https://imgur.com/gallery/o3Z9k
 
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That Looks good. I wonder if this is from in game data.
I guess I could send this to my 3d Printer and see what Comes out..

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I doubt they'll release anything official to allow 3D printing, would be a mistake from a business point of view to give away an asset that they MIGHT decide to sell at some point over the coming years remember this ios a company that's been around for over 30 years they don't feel like they have to move particularly quickly at anything to retain customers.

Such attempts useually backfires. ppl find ways to get to the data they seek. if you dont sell early you lose the oportunity.
 
That Looks good. I wonder if this is from in game data.
I guess I could send this to my 3d Printer and see what Comes out..

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Such attempts useually backfires. ppl find ways to get to the data they seek. if you dont sell early you lose the oportunity.

A tiny percentage of people might mange to track down extracted files and then get them 3d printed, a much larger proportion of people would order a kit from an online retailer. You have to remember that the players who use a forum and do "complex" things like use 3rd party aps for trade or track down 3d printer files really are only a small percentage of any games user base. Most games average something under 10% of players ever even visiting the official forums, it wouldn't damage model kits sales by any noticable amount to wait, especially as many would want the kits as well as their original "pirated" 3d prints.

You have to think like a business and an average user and just the fact of being on here puts you outside the average user base.
 
I've done some 3D printing of various ships, originally some ships from the Wing Commander series and more recently I've been printing some scale versions of Elite and Star Citizen ships. Getting the ship files themselves are fairly easy depending on the source. There is a video of how to extract the models from Elite using RenderDoc and you can freely download the Star Citizen ships. The biggest issue tends to be that the resolution of the models themselves is usually far higher than the 3D printers can actually print, which is usually within detail tolerances of 0.7 mm to 1 mm depending on the material. This means you have to extensively "clean" the mesh to remove any tiny details that are too small for the printing process. In the case of Elite ships I tend to use the HUD display low-res models as they require much less work to get to a printable state and the scale that I print them at you can't usually see much fine detail anyways. Then there's the issue that the model needs to be manifold, so all edges/faces need to be connected to each other. This can take quite a while to fix especially if there are "holes" in the mesh. Finally there's the issue where the mesh itself is sometimes low quality and doesn't convert well, either due to face normals being inverted, duplicated verticies/faces and so on which doesn't translate well to 3D printing. I've even found models where the conversion process removes faces at random and you have to go back and "extrapolate" where the faces should be as some of the veritices are often missing completely.

On the bright side, once you get a model to a printable state there are many commercial services that can do the printing for you if you don't have a 3D printer. Shapeways is the main website that is used for this, they provide an excellent service and their system can actually handle fairly low-quality models with suboptimal geometry and still give you a printable product. For example they will automatically correct face normals to avoid holes in the mesh and their system will "smooth out" nearby areas that are slightly off (as long as the mesh itself is manifold). Their pricing is also very reasonable for the service they provide and it has consistently been going down over time as their technology gets cheaper and more efficient.

It's not an easy process but if you have the time and inclination it can be very rewarding trying to get the models printed, you end up learning quite a bit about how the ships are designed although it will require several hours in many cases to fix the models to a printable state. It's also nice to see the tiny 3D printed models on your desk and see the scale of how they compare to each other, it gives you a sense of the ship scale that you can't quite appreciate from a 2D overhead ship chart.
 
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I don't understand FDs politics here. Why not offering the models for free or to a payable price so everyone that loves ed could print or render his or her ship?


Because giving it away free as a 3D model could threaten the IP rights of the designs, and their lawyers would go mental?

Those designs took thousands of man-hours and are valuable company assets. Assuming that they don't have a crystal ball in order to ensure that they are not wasting a potential future revenue or endangering their IP, they'd be absolutely crazy to just release it gratis.
 
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Because giving it away free as a 3D model could threaten the IP rights of the designs, and their lawyers would go mental?

Those designed took *thousands* of man-hours to do and are valuable company assets. Assuming that they don't have a crystal ball in order to ensure that they are not wasting a potential future revenue or endangering their IP, they'd be absolutely crazy to just release it gratis.

It's not quite as much of an issue as you might think. The models are freely obtainable with RenderDoc which is essentially takes a 3D "screenshot" of everything your GPU renders in a given frame. It's literally impossible for them to keep people from obtaining the ship models themselves but you will have to go through a bit of work to get them. Where it becomes an issue is what you do with those models once you have them.

If it's a case of printing models for your own personal use there is nothing FD is going to do to stop you. In fact FD actually did some sort of newsletter article about a player who printed some Elite ships so it's presumably not something they want to discourage at all. In fact they probably want you to do activities like this as it is basically free advertising for the game to have their ships/designs/etc out there in printed form.

Where is becomes an issue that once someone starts offering printed ships for actual money (even if they aren't making a profit and are only charging base costs) then FD is potentially "losing" a source of income. So as long as it's for personal use there is nothing they are going to do about it, but as soon as someone commercialises it that is where it becomes a problem.
 
If there were Airfix style kits of ships, I'd consider getting some. Proper size, able to be painted, look good on the desk by the keyboard.
 
It's not quite as much of an issue as you might think. The models are freely obtainable with RenderDoc which is essentially takes a 3D "screenshot" of everything your GPU renders in a given frame. It's literally impossible for them to keep people from obtaining the ship models themselves but you will have to go through a bit of work to get them. Where it becomes an issue is what you do with those models once you have them.

If it's a case of printing models for your own personal use there is nothing FD is going to do to stop you. In fact FD actually did some sort of newsletter article about a player who printed some Elite ships so it's presumably not something they want to discourage at all. In fact they probably want you to do activities like this as it is basically free advertising for the game to have their ships/designs/etc out there in printed form.

Where is becomes an issue that once someone starts offering printed ships for actual money (even if they aren't making a profit and are only charging base costs) then FD is potentially "losing" a source of income. So as long as it's for personal use there is nothing they are going to do about it, but as soon as someone commercialises it that is where it becomes a problem.

I think there's probably a big legal difference between trying to defend your intellectual property from someone else profiting from it and saying 'No, we did not freely distribute the complete model and sanction its use by external parties' and 'yes, we gave the complete models out for free and told everyone they can do what they like with it'. And corporate lawyers are not known for saying 'sure yeah, let's take the risk now!'. Like you say: FD are not going to send in the lawyers over us knocking something up for fun via backwards engineering GPU captures, but do need to protect their IP and potentially preserve future revenue, and that means that I don't think FD will hand us completed patterns and tell us to go wild.

Imagine if FD did look to making a deal with Airfix to sell proper models. Imagine how much less Airfix would be interested in the deal if FD had already released their full 3D ship patterns and half the target audience had already made a plastic ship model.

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If there were Airfix style kits of ships, I'd consider getting some. Proper size, able to be painted, look good on the desk by the keyboard.

I'd love some little white metal ones to use as markers for various board and table games. Why be an old boot or a top hat when you can be a Sidewinder?
 
This means you have to extensively "clean" the mesh to remove any tiny details that are too small for the printing process. In the case of Elite ships I tend to use the HUD display low-res models as they require much less work to get to a printable state and the scale that I print them at you can't usually see much fine detail anyways. Then there's the issue that the model needs to be manifold, so all edges/faces need to be connected to each other. This can take quite a while to fix especially if there are "holes" in the mesh.

Thank you for pointing me to RenderDoc. I can confirm it works with that but it is not quite as easy as you make it sound to get it working with ED. I just tried.
The ASP on thingverse seems to be extracted with that tool and is not 3d print ready. I checked the mesh and yes you will have to put a significant effort into it to fix the mesh to get it printable. ( we all love those non manifold complains )
I prefer buying an official print ready 3d model from FD and support them that way but when it is not offered it is not offered.
 
3d printing would be the most viable option, as the model asset files would only need converted to .STL and checked for holes. And by allowing us to download and 3d print our own, they save both the manufacturing and shipping costs.
 
3d printing would be the most viable option, as the model asset files would only need converted to .STL and checked for holes. And by allowing us to download and 3d print our own, they save both the manufacturing and shipping costs.


It's certainly the easiest way to do things, 3D printing still has a long way to go before it can make what I personally would call acceptable models though. Given that many of the ships in Elite are mostly flat planes joined together along straight edges I'd be inclined to scratch build from plasticard to get a better finished product IF i was wanting one of a decent size to display on a desk.
 
I think there's probably a big legal difference between trying to defend your intellectual property from someone else profiting from it and saying 'No, we did not freely distribute the complete model and sanction its use by external parties' and 'yes, we gave the complete models out for free and told everyone they can do what they like with it'. And corporate lawyers are not known for saying 'sure yeah, let's take the risk now!'. Like you say: FD are not going to send in the lawyers over us knocking something up for fun via backwards engineering GPU captures, but do need to protect their IP and potentially preserve future revenue, and that means that I don't think FD will hand us completed patterns and tell us to go wild.

Yes, that was pretty much what I was getting at. They aren't making it "easy" for us to use the models for printing, but they aren't interested in stopping us either as long as we stay reasonable about it as it does increase interest in the game.

Imagine if FD did look to making a deal with Airfix to sell proper models. Imagine how much less Airfix would be interested in the deal if FD had already released their full 3D ship patterns and half the target audience had already made a plastic ship model.

With regards to the larger models, there would definitely be a market for full ship kits but that would probably require quite a bit of investment for a very small market. The issue with 3D printing is that the costs become prohibitively high when you get beyond around 2-3 inches in size, which is around $20-30 or so depending on the material, but since the printing is volume-based it gets exponentially higher as you scale up (rather than being discounted). This is part of the reason why I print the ships at a very small scale, I can print an Anaconda at 3-inch scale for around $20-30 and fighters at 0.5-1 inch scale for $8-10 which are reasonable costs if you want a small "fleet" of ships. If you scale them up larger to around 5-6 inch size however that would be over $100 per ship. Making a kit that uses parts produced more economically would decrease this cost substantially but the initial costs and production difficultes are limiting here. Developing a proper "kit" is quite difficult and making plastic polystyrene master molds for a model kit are quite expensive (upwards of $10k to $20k to development the stainless steel mold) although once you've done this you get substantial economies of scale as the production cost per kit can drop quite low when producted in larger numbers. The other option is a polyurethane resin kit but resins are rather challenging to work with without a lot of experience due to the vaccum-casting process that produces bubbles and other defects not to mention the resin itself is quite toxic and you need to know what you're doing. When Games workshop switched their pewter molds to resin they had a ridiculously high defect rate within the first 1-2 years and they really had no idea how to produce a high-quality resin cast for several years, despite being probably the largest gaming company and potentially being able to use experience from their Forgeworld subsidiary who had been doing high-quality resin casts for years.


Thank you for pointing me to RenderDoc. I can confirm it works with that but it is not quite as easy as you make it sound to get it working with ED. I just tried.

Yes it does require a certain amount of technical knowledge to follow the instructions in the video. If I hadn't already had a bit of experience printing Wing Commander ships I probably wouldn't have even tried, but I already had Blender/Meshlab as well as Process Explorer installed so I wasn't starting from scratch and it was just a matter of getting the Python script for CSV import and a few other technical issues.

The ASP on thingverse seems to be extracted with that tool and is not 3d print ready. I checked the mesh and yes you will have to put a significant effort into it to fix the mesh to get it printable. ( we all love those non manifold complains )

Yes both the Asp, Imperial Courier and Adder low-res models are "fragmented" although if you look at the original RenderDoc mesh output the verticies are still present and the mesh is intact if repaired, it's really just the faces and edges that are "missing". I was able to "reconstruct" most of the mesh for these but the quality was still poor and that was just with a low-res HUD model. Additionally some of the newer ships seem to have been done more "hastily" for example the Viper IV mesh is very poor quality with a lot of non-mainifold edges. That's just with the low-res HUD models that are usually a single "file", it gets even more complicated if you try to use the full ship models. The high-res full ship models are usually in several "parts" that overlap to allow moving parts on the ships in-game, such as hardpoint doors, cockpit interiors, etc., and those are very difficult to "reconstruct". The best way to get those ships is from the loading screen where your ship spins around on the screen as it is the only object to "capture" and you can often get them as a single coherent model that way. I quickly found that the full-res ships however have detail that is too fine to work with for 3D printing so have stuck with the low-res models. Even then I usually have to delete small details like thruster nozzles, thicken wings/fins and other thin walls and so on just to get even the low-res model within printing tolerances.

I prefer buying an official print ready 3d model from FD and support them that way but when it is not offered it is not offered.

Given that their initial 3D models take a lot of time to produce even just as an in-game 3D asset much less one designed for 3D printing they really don't have the time or expertise to make them printable as it takes many hours just to get it to a state where the 3D printer will accept the file. I think we will never see them offered "officially" due to this issues other than possibly a single iconic ship like a Cobra if FD really feels like testing the market with a relatively limited investment.
 
Yes it does require a certain amount of technical knowledge to follow the instructions in the video. If I hadn't already had a bit of experience printing Wing Commander ships I probably wouldn't have even tried, but I already had Blender/Meshlab as well as Process Explorer installed so I wasn't starting from scratch and it was just a matter of getting the Python script for CSV import and a few other technical issues.

I walked the way without seeing the Video. So it was a bit harder to figure it all out. RenderDoc didn't captured anything at all but turned out I testet it on incompatible programs. You say there is a script for that csv blender Import? Good to know. I will find it. Already wondered if I have to write a converter myself which wouldnt be a problem but work.
Yes that rotating one in the Launch Screen seems to be good enough for 3d print. It's what I test captured. Funny thought it is splitted in 2 draw calles (*) with no visible logic of the split. Ok I had oculus on and SLI so who knows what it was doing internal.

Given that their initial 3D models take a lot of time to produce even just as an in-game 3D asset much less one designed for 3D printing they really don't have the time or expertise to make them printable as it takes many hours just to get it to a state where the 3D printer will accept the file. I think we will never see them offered "officially" due to this issues other than possibly a single iconic ship like a Cobra if FD really feels like testing the market with a relatively limited investment.

Well yes it is a calculation they have to do: so and so many man hours and so and so many sells = do it or not.

I havent decided for myself yet if I want to spend the effort and print me a ship for on my Desktop.
Since I play around with blender it is more likely that I will use it once in blender for this close to no work on the mesh has to be done.

(*) figured out the reason. There seems to be a 16 bit (65536) vertices drawcall count limit and additional the last vertex gets corrupt exported into the csv by renderdoc.
 
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I know it'll only ever be a pipe dream due to the development and manufacturing costs involved, but I'd love to see a range of die cast ship models. I'd buy the entire fleet if I could!

As someone without access to a 3D printer, it would be great to have some print-ready ship models available via one of the online printing services. I'm reluctant to try the current ones out there due to the comments above about having to correct them to make them print-ready.
 
Oh please, YES!!!

I was just thinking about this very same thing last night after watching the new ship sizes comparison video.
 
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