At the beggining I belived it's good that ED is MMO-ish. But today I think it would be a better game as classic SP (with maybe classic client-server multiplayer mode). We would probably see much more wanted features/content as it seems implementing some stuff in current p2p multiplayer system is real PitA for the devs. Let's start with the most obvious - NO instancing. I bet ED as SP game would be almost completly seamless. That reason alone is enough for me. Flying in space, flying to stations instead of dropping in an instance completly disconnected from another. The whole supercruise/normal space system nonsesne is made just for one reason - because the mmoish nature of the game has to accomodate for much more people than current tech and network capabilities allow. So we have workaounds like instances with maxplayercount=32. Without it? Oh it would be so nice to fly somewhere and not feel like changing servers in the middle of the game. Whole supercruise crap would be gone > interdictions would be gone > Npcs and the whole in-system fligh model would be different. No crappy ship spawning out of nowhere... It would be glorious. I know some people like multiplayer aspects of elite but don't forget, single players games can have multiplayer modes. Less players, much less, but enough for some players to fly around together. Yes I think ED would be much more interesting as SP game.
Elite - Would it be better as a single player?
- Thread starter ITZC0ATL
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Ditto for me as well.
I LOVED Skyrim and Morrowind before that. I was thoroughly bummed when they announced that the next major installment of the franchise was going to be ONLINE ONLY.
Talk about a complete and utter loss of interest in ever buying another Elder Scrolls game ever again!
I will NEVER understand this odd obsession with Multiplayer. It has its place, but it isn't anything close to the panacea some of these younger players seem to think it is.
Might just be down to them never actually playing a true classic SP game and seeing how much more immersive and dynamic so many of them were/are. ??
I certainly have not been blown away in the last 10 years by anything with a multi-player only focus. GTA5 was fun, but over the last 2 years, all the GTA Online DLCs have all forced the player into OPEN MP modes full of random players. Sorry... Not going to go there, so I will keep any potential $$ I may have spent on upgrades or whatever in my wallet.
Nothing more annoying than a room full of GTA5 jerkoffs.
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I think one of the issues with ED is the fact it's not really a single player or an MMO or a co-op game.
It has elements of the three but doesn't really fit comfortably into any of those genres.
This is to be applauded as it was a brave decision to 'have it all' in one game and to hell with the industry status quo. On the other hand I feel the game is hamstrung by the fact it needs to please so many different gamers and their preferences.
Every design decision has to tick a ridiculous number of boxes to fulfill the promise of 'no player group is left behind' so we get compromised features that often please nobody.
On the whole I think they've done a pretty good job at balancing those aspects but I feel their job would have been far easier if they'd nailed their colours to the mast and stuck to one defining genre.
To answer the question, yes I would have bought and played the single player version if there had been one...still would. Though I do like meeting up with friends for a session of ED.
It has elements of the three but doesn't really fit comfortably into any of those genres.
This is to be applauded as it was a brave decision to 'have it all' in one game and to hell with the industry status quo. On the other hand I feel the game is hamstrung by the fact it needs to please so many different gamers and their preferences.
Every design decision has to tick a ridiculous number of boxes to fulfill the promise of 'no player group is left behind' so we get compromised features that often please nobody.
On the whole I think they've done a pretty good job at balancing those aspects but I feel their job would have been far easier if they'd nailed their colours to the mast and stuck to one defining genre.
To answer the question, yes I would have bought and played the single player version if there had been one...still would. Though I do like meeting up with friends for a session of ED.
What?! Elite isn't single player... haven't even noticed yet. Well that certainly explains quite a lot, all this talk about wings, player factions, PvP and multi crew wasn't just spacemadness or an elaborate joke.
Whoops, that post got a bit longer than I thought and is also quite messy, so tl;dr: No. (For reasons see spoiler.)
Whoops, that post got a bit longer than I thought and is also quite messy, so tl;dr: No. (For reasons see spoiler.)
"An absolutely messy post about things I have no clue about (aka "The Post to Just Ignore"):
Jokes aside, I don't think ED could have even worked as a single player game. While you certainly could put the whole galaxy with everything inside it on a single computer/console the lack of a dynamic evolution it would certainly feel like a great loss in retrospect. Just think about what we would have missed out since the beginning. How has human inhabited space changed since launch?
Even a slowplayer driven narrative creates a better feel of an universe than any "static" story, even with lots of dynamic elements could ever do. While the introduction of new features certainly would have been possible for a single player game, development on Elite Dangerous would most likely have ended by now (and a new game would be in development with a new narrative and a larger list of features).
While you most likely could simulate the galaxy in a way that results in an illusion similar to one evolving "naturally" like we currently have, it would not be the same as it would be just an illusion and I prefer a BGS like we currently have over any illusion.
A pure single player game could also never sustain a player base as large as the one we have right now for long enough to even reach a stage of the intended end goal of Elite. FD would have been forced to take a similar development approach as "The Other Space Game That Shall Not Be Named", meaning we would still be waiting for its release. And while I don't know about you, I would rather play a game in development, than wait for one to be developed. (Sorry, just had to make that argument.)
Now, just ask yourself this question: How long have I played Elite Dangerous (so far) and how long have I played a pure single player game, that was released within the last 5 years?
On the topic of modding support, no one could answer if Elite Dangerous would have gotten this "feature". While it's not an accurate comparison it shows todays mantallity: Why would a company like EA or Ubisoft add modding support to any game released these days? Now FDEV is not on the same level as these publishers/developers, but from a business point of view you would/should only add modding support, if you want to please and therefore sustain a community for a long time and you would only do that if you aren't planning on releasing another game or DLC within the next decade.
Frontier always intended to build on Elite Dangerous and the only logical way to do this these days is by either releasing a lot of DLC or making a sequel and I don't know how you think about this, but to me a single player Elite Dangerous (with a single player narrative) would "require" a sequel instead of lots of DLC. Think about it, why make ten large DLC for a single game, while you could make 2 sequels with 7 small equally priced DLC each, while only requiring roughly the same amount of work?"
- Yours sincerely, a random person on the internet.
Jokes aside, I don't think ED could have even worked as a single player game. While you certainly could put the whole galaxy with everything inside it on a single computer/console the lack of a dynamic evolution it would certainly feel like a great loss in retrospect. Just think about what we would have missed out since the beginning. How has human inhabited space changed since launch?
Even a slow
While you most likely could simulate the galaxy in a way that results in an illusion similar to one evolving "naturally" like we currently have, it would not be the same as it would be just an illusion and I prefer a BGS like we currently have over any illusion.
A pure single player game could also never sustain a player base as large as the one we have right now for long enough to even reach a stage of the intended end goal of Elite. FD would have been forced to take a similar development approach as "The Other Space Game That Shall Not Be Named", meaning we would still be waiting for its release. And while I don't know about you, I would rather play a game in development, than wait for one to be developed. (Sorry, just had to make that argument.)
Now, just ask yourself this question: How long have I played Elite Dangerous (so far) and how long have I played a pure single player game, that was released within the last 5 years?
On the topic of modding support, no one could answer if Elite Dangerous would have gotten this "feature". While it's not an accurate comparison it shows todays mantallity: Why would a company like EA or Ubisoft add modding support to any game released these days? Now FDEV is not on the same level as these publishers/developers, but from a business point of view you would/should only add modding support, if you want to please and therefore sustain a community for a long time and you would only do that if you aren't planning on releasing another game or DLC within the next decade.
Frontier always intended to build on Elite Dangerous and the only logical way to do this these days is by either releasing a lot of DLC or making a sequel and I don't know how you think about this, but to me a single player Elite Dangerous (with a single player narrative) would "require" a sequel instead of lots of DLC. Think about it, why make ten large DLC for a single game, while you could make 2 sequels with 7 small equally priced DLC each, while only requiring roughly the same amount of work?"
- Yours sincerely, a random person on the internet.
No. It would be sad as the only reason I still play is coop PvE play.
That sure doesn't paint Elite Dangerous in a very favorable light if it is so empty as to not even be worth playing without another human player in your session.
Glad I am able to see far more value in it than that.
Yes.
No.
But I could probably be a bit more helpful than that...
Pretty obviously, you ask a question like this, then for the most part what you'll get back is responses based on how people feel about the game, rather than based on dispassionate empirical analysis of it.
My feeling is that Elite 1984 was a single-player game. So was Frontier. So was First Encounters. There was nothing about the lore, setting or nature of any of these games that lends itself well to multiplayer, and this is especially the case for the latter two: Elite 84 was a huge game for its time, but FE2 and FFE were dizzyingly so. There simply wasn't a need to put any two players in the same instance of a connected world -- at least more than would have been possible with a local, direct peer-to-peer connection if they really, really insisted they had to fly together. The galaxy is just too big. We already have people complaining that there isn't enough player density for 'proper' mass multiplayer action; yet in implementing a multiplayer environment, we've sacrificed much that might have helped ED really take off.
(And I'll put my usual disclaimer in here and say that I love this game and it's my automatic go-to whenever I have free computer time. I generally say that in most respects ED is a magnificent remake of the original Elite. What it isn't, in my eyes, is the Elite 4 I'd hoped would one day appear.)
I could list a number of gameplay elements I think have suffered from the decision to make ED a pseudo-MMO. A recent thread talked about the ease of getting around the galaxy - as demonstrated by the speed with which the first ships reached Sagittarius A* once the Bubble was opened up. Yet in Frontier and First Encounters, such a journey would have been far more challenging, since every maximum-distance witch-jump would have taken a week of game time: these two games had an ingenious hyperspace model, which meant that every witch-drive (Frontier's FSD) covered its maximum distance in seven days, with lesser jumps proportionally faster.
That's one gameplay example: it can't be used in ED because time has to be synced for everyone -- so short of making players wait a real-time week to jump their FSD range, the only workaround was to have FSD jumps take a few seconds, no matter how far. As a result, the galaxy, no matter its massive number of stars and planets, is relatively tiny and easy to get around.
Aside from gameplay, I think ED lost a lot from the fact that, as a multiplayer, always-on game, it shut out what I'm sure would have been a keen modding community. You've only to look at the peripheral tools and cosmetic modifications people have created: all the trading websites, the ship-fitting tools, the OCR readers to work around the more glaring functional gaps in the game itself. Now imagine what these people could have done if they'd been let loose on a game that was entirely contained within its own client software on the player's own machine. And I know it's been suggested that a home machine couldn't possibly handle the background simulation on its own -- although it's also been suggested that a single-player mode was seriously considered, so I'm not sure I'm inclined to accept that. Someone, at some point, clearly thought it could be done.
But imagine an ED with a proper, detailed trade feature modded in, or libraries of custom-built mission types for download from modding sites; extra ship models; adjusted flight dynamics; more detailed ship controls, an improved Air Traffic Control system at space stations and settlements; a whole swathe of astronomical features and phenomena; exploration or mining sub-games that actually demanded an element of skill... These are only the few things I can think of given my specific areas of interest: I'm sure combat pilots could come up with countless more. And if anyone doubts that the players would or could come up with this sort of thing, you've only to look at how Oolite has been expanded by its own community -- or, if not that, then consider Microsoft's Flight Simulator, with every new release fleshed out and expanded almost beyond recognition by enthusiastic fans. Anyone remember Falcon 4.0, the old military flight sim? If so, do you remember the 'Superpatch', which essentially rewrote the entire game from the ground up, and made a highly detailed and dynamic flight simulation vastly more of both?
This was, in my view, one of the biggest losses to ED, and is a direct result of the decision to crowbar multiplayer into the game.
I also think the game's suffered from "doesn't-quite-know-what-it-wants-to-be" syndrome. The desire to give everyone the chance to "Play Your Way" is admirable, but isn't fully supported by a massively-multiplayer environment, because there will always be players who want to stop you Playing Your Way, and make your Play Their Way instead. Ah, but, there's an opportunity to use Solo mode -- but the interaction of the modes with each other has been a constant point of contention on these forums since the game's inception. To say that Solo, Private Group and Open sit uncomfortably together is a massive understatement -- and I'm not going to cover the reasons the various factions have given for their views on this, because there have been many thousands of posts on the subject already.
If, though, ED had had a single-player mode, or been a single-player game, I'm reasonably sure that there wouldn't have been half the difficulty over this.
So yes, I think ED would have benefitted greatly from being designed as a single-player game. It wouldn't have been contentious in the first instance, because it would have been perfectly consistent with every previous Elite game -- and they always had a multiplayer feel to them anyway. I remember as a kid swapping space stories with my friends who also played, as we explored the eight galaxies of Elite. And I'll admit a lot of the stories we told each other were exaggerated bull, but that was sort of the point: we had a lot of fun doing it, and we all felt a little like adventurous space pilots, discovering the galaxies on our own, in our own way.
Well said!
Regarding community modding, doesn't have to be space/flight sims either. Skyrim (and the Elder Scrolls series in general) comes to mind. The user created content there is staggering.
Single player would also have allowed more easily crafted narratives with actual impact to the world.
A Modded Single Player Elite Dangerous would have been GLORIOUS!
I wouldn't give the current multi-player experience two bits in comparison to all that potential.
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I know it's bending the rules from what OP asked but I still think there is too much black or white thinking when we could have some grey.
Lots of games are essentially single player but allow some multiplayer too (borderlands).
It's not that I have a problem with EDs multiplayer. My issue with the price the none MP part has been forced to pay
I also lost interest in ESO about half an hour after starting it. That's probably unfair, I admit -- but I think the biggest problem with that particular franchise is that every previous game, being single-player, has made the player the Big Damn Hero. I'M the one who saves the world. I'M the Dragonborn. Not anyone else: ME. (And you, obviously, when you play.)Ditto for me as well.
I LOVED Skyrim and Morrowind before that. I was thoroughly bummed when they announced that the next major installment of the franchise was going to be ONLINE ONLY.
Talk about a complete and utter loss of interest in ever buying another Elder Scrolls game ever again!
But try to force that into an MMO title, and you have to find a way to either make everybody the BDH, or no-one can be. And that seriously alters the whole fabric, and no doubt the appeal, of that gameworld.
When I play Skyrim it's as an utterly terrifying rage-filled vengeful god-monster, and it might not be fair or right or in the spirit of the game, but damn, is it fun. I can make that world bend to my godsdamned will (kinda). I can't do anything like that in ESO, because I'm just a peon.
Exactly!
I had ZERO interest in ESO. Never even checked out the trailers or the website. What you just described is precisely what I assumed it would be.
Its a shame that we now have all this awesome graphics technology to make games look totally epic and awesome, yet all the new games being developed are MP only crap!
Ditto for me as well.
I LOVED Skyrim and Morrowind before that. I was thoroughly bummed when they announced that the next major installment of the franchise was going to be ONLINE ONLY.
Talk about a complete and utter loss of interest in ever buying another Elder Scrolls game ever again!
Slightly off topic, but Elder Scrolls Online should be considered a completely separate entity to the single player series.
Its a prequel and done by another company entirely (Zenimax).
Elder Scrolls VI will happen as a single player game by Bethesda .... just a shame its taking so long thanks to Fallout 4 and all the Skyrim remasters. And supposedly they are now working on a secret third major series as well.
No it wouldn't. ! Be a better game, that's going backward being single player.
As I kid I dreamt of playing against and with others on the original and later versions. now we have let's relish it. Remove solo mode, if your want solo make you own group.
Playiing in groups and open is amazing
As I kid I dreamt of playing against and with others on the original and later versions. now we have let's relish it. Remove solo mode, if your want solo make you own group.
Playiing in groups and open is amazing
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Too soon...
That sure doesn't paint Elite Dangerous in a very favorable light if it is so empty as to not even be worth playing without another human player in your session.
Glad I am able to see far more value in it than that.
I pretty much burned all the other content for now. And I still like exploring and soloing thargoids. But most of my play is aimed at doing stuff in group.
Much more fun IMO.
ED is amazing, but pretty thin after a while.
That's a bizarre idea to me. What specifically makes you believe that multiplayer is an objective advancement over single-player? That there is a line of 'progress' from single to multiplayer? To me, they would seem to be two entirely different game concepts.
Either that, or a dozen of mini-story lines centered on the different parts of ED lore and important ED locations. Like the Lave cluster, the Pilot federation, INRA and so on...
OP - I was honestly a bit perturbed during the first beta, when I realised the game was going to be MMO - I'd never played an MMO game in my life up until that point.
However, I started playing in open, and have played almost exclusively in open since (98% of the time). The 2% is not to avoid danger, just those days when I can't be bothered with the little bit of extra effort required for open.
Personally, I love open, but grateful of the flexibility to choose.
However, I started playing in open, and have played almost exclusively in open since (98% of the time). The 2% is not to avoid danger, just those days when I can't be bothered with the little bit of extra effort required for open.
Personally, I love open, but grateful of the flexibility to choose.
