Elite - Would it be better as a single player?
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The Five Stages of Denial of for Frontier are...
Design, Implementation, Feedback, Redesign, Drawing the Curtains.
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Yes.
No.
But I could probably be a bit more helpful than that...
Pretty obviously, you ask a question like this, then for the most part what you'll get back is responses based on how people feel about the game, rather than based on dispassionate empirical analysis of it.
My feeling is that Elite 1984 was a single-player game. So was Frontier. So was First Encounters. There was nothing about the lore, setting or nature of any of these games that lends itself well to multiplayer, and this is especially the case for the latter two: Elite 84 was a huge game for its time, but FE2 and FFE were dizzyingly so. There simply wasn't a need to put any two players in the same instance of a connected world -- at least more than would have been possible with a local, direct peer-to-peer connection if they really, really insisted they had to fly together. The galaxy is just too big. We already have people complaining that there isn't enough player density for 'proper' mass multiplayer action; yet in implementing a multiplayer environment, we've sacrificed much that might have helped ED really take off.
(And I'll put my usual disclaimer in here and say that I love this game and it's my automatic go-to whenever I have free computer time. I generally say that in most respects ED is a magnificent remake of the original Elite. What it isn't, in my eyes, is the Elite 4 I'd hoped would one day appear.)
I could list a number of gameplay elements I think have suffered from the decision to make ED a pseudo-MMO. A recent thread talked about the ease of getting around the galaxy - as demonstrated by the speed with which the first ships reached Sagittarius A* once the Bubble was opened up. Yet in Frontier and First Encounters, such a journey would have been far more challenging, since every maximum-distance witch-jump would have taken a week of game time: these two games had an ingenious hyperspace model, which meant that every witch-drive (Frontier's FSD) covered its maximum distance in seven days, with lesser jumps proportionally faster.
That's one gameplay example: it can't be used in ED because time has to be synced for everyone -- so short of making players wait a real-time week to jump their FSD range, the only workaround was to have FSD jumps take a few seconds, no matter how far. As a result, the galaxy, no matter its massive number of stars and planets, is relatively tiny and easy to get around.
Aside from gameplay, I think ED lost a lot from the fact that, as a multiplayer, always-on game, it shut out what I'm sure would have been a keen modding community. You've only to look at the peripheral tools and cosmetic modifications people have created: all the trading websites, the ship-fitting tools, the OCR readers to work around the more glaring functional gaps in the game itself. Now imagine what these people could have done if they'd been let loose on a game that was entirely contained within its own client software on the player's own machine. And I know it's been suggested that a home machine couldn't possibly handle the background simulation on its own -- although it's also been suggested that a single-player mode was seriously considered, so I'm not sure I'm inclined to accept that. Someone, at some point, clearly thought it could be done.
But imagine an ED with a proper, detailed trade feature modded in, or libraries of custom-built mission types for download from modding sites; extra ship models; adjusted flight dynamics; more detailed ship controls, an improved Air Traffic Control system at space stations and settlements; a whole swathe of astronomical features and phenomena; exploration or mining sub-games that actually demanded an element of skill... These are only the few things I can think of given my specific areas of interest: I'm sure combat pilots could come up with countless more. And if anyone doubts that the players would or could come up with this sort of thing, you've only to look at how Oolite has been expanded by its own community -- or, if not that, then consider Microsoft's Flight Simulator, with every new release fleshed out and expanded almost beyond recognition by enthusiastic fans. Anyone remember Falcon 4.0, the old military flight sim? If so, do you remember the 'Superpatch', which essentially rewrote the entire game from the ground up, and made a highly detailed and dynamic flight simulation vastly more of both?
This was, in my view, one of the biggest losses to ED, and is a direct result of the decision to crowbar multiplayer into the game.
I also think the game's suffered from "doesn't-quite-know-what-it-wants-to-be" syndrome. The desire to give everyone the chance to "Play Your Way" is admirable, but isn't fully supported by a massively-multiplayer environment, because there will always be players who want to stop you Playing Your Way, and make your Play Their Way instead. Ah, but, there's an opportunity to use Solo mode -- but the interaction of the modes with each other has been a constant point of contention on these forums since the game's inception. To say that Solo, Private Group and Open sit uncomfortably together is a massive understatement -- and I'm not going to cover the reasons the various factions have given for their views on this, because there have been many thousands of posts on the subject already.
If, though, ED had had a single-player mode, or been a single-player game, I'm reasonably sure that there wouldn't have been half the difficulty over this.
So yes, I think ED would have benefitted greatly from being designed as a single-player game. It wouldn't have been contentious in the first instance, because it would have been perfectly consistent with every previous Elite game -- and they always had a multiplayer feel to them anyway. I remember as a kid swapping space stories with my friends who also played, as we explored the eight galaxies of Elite. And I'll admit a lot of the stories we told each other were exaggerated bull, but that was sort of the point: we had a lot of fun doing it, and we all felt a little like adventurous space pilots, discovering the galaxies on our own, in our own way.
Seven days in jump? Traveller stole this from Elite in 1977!
Elite: Alone.
Short answer: No, it would be better WITHOUT the single player.
Long Answer: Elite suffers from its inability to make a decision. Its not an MMO in any way, but its also not a single player game nor a multiplayer game because its trying to do them both and thus excels at neither; its just a halfway house between the 2. MP suffers due to concessions that have to be made for SP and vice verser. Would ED be better as a single player game than what it is now? Yes...But overall MP is the obvious path the game should have taken.
Long Answer: Elite suffers from its inability to make a decision. Its not an MMO in any way, but its also not a single player game nor a multiplayer game because its trying to do them both and thus excels at neither; its just a halfway house between the 2. MP suffers due to concessions that have to be made for SP and vice verser. Would ED be better as a single player game than what it is now? Yes...But overall MP is the obvious path the game should have taken.
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I kept my C-64 until the early 90's.
[video=youtube;-0TAU35QS-8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0TAU35QS-8&t=78s[/video]
I have had enough salami in my life, thank you very much.
I like ED how it is. I play in Mobius.
However, if Elite has been single player offline I would have bought it in a heartbeat. Cause when I first heard of Elite and looked into it superficially, I thought it was an Open only PvP gank fest. Only got it because I was a bit tired of playing SC betas and really really wanted to play a spaceflight shooter. So I bought ED for a laugh, expecting that I’d probably get blown up everytime I left the starter station.
Now it’s 4yrs later and ED is pretty much the only game installed on my PC.
However, if Elite has been single player offline I would have bought it in a heartbeat. Cause when I first heard of Elite and looked into it superficially, I thought it was an Open only PvP gank fest. Only got it because I was a bit tired of playing SC betas and really really wanted to play a spaceflight shooter. So I bought ED for a laugh, expecting that I’d probably get blown up everytime I left the starter station.
Now it’s 4yrs later and ED is pretty much the only game installed on my PC.
Unless you are rank O-6 or greater, I am senior to you in both respects.
Don't make me call the Chief, and put you in the supply room for a month.
I was regularly using a Sinclair Spectrum until 1993 and an Amiga until 1998ish, and I was still titling VHS videotapes using a 1986-vintage BBC Master in 2000. Emulation (and the final death of VHS) eventually replaced all three.I kept my C-64 until the early 90's.
This ties into one of the fears I had, and still have to some degree, about the online-only nature of ED. If FD don't release the server code when the game goes EOL, and if nobody can reverse-engineer it, we may have the situation in a few years where videogame historians and retrogamers can run every game in the Elite series, on every platform, except ED. I would hate to see that happen.
Also at the time "always connected" games were the latest craze as "unpirateable DRM".
It would be better for me, I'd have to say.
I've been out in the black, well beyond the bubble since september. Apart from a 1 day stay at Colonia, it's been 141 days since I've seen another ship, NPC or player.
Since I'm out exploring, this is fine for me. I don't want NPCs in size 12 boots stamping around while I'm trying to see the sights.
As for combat, that's why there are combat missions. And I like my trading done without the interference of someone who presumes that I'm there to be their "content".
"Oh oh, but you won't be able to play with other CMDRs" say folks.
I don't play with other commanders now. When I was in open, having to keep both eyes on the scanner watching all the commanders like a hawk for any sugestion of hostile intention was a distraction at the very least. I wasn't able to concentrate on playing my way or whatever the tagline was supposed to be, because I was too concerned about other commanders trying to play theirs. My most successful interaction with another player was "Oh he's shooting that npc, I'll go and find someone else to shoot so I don't get accused of kill stealing".
I wouldn't mind if I never saw another cmdr in space, which is why I use solo. I don't even use mobius anymore, since interacting with other players adds nothing to my game.
Then there's all the ranting about the BGS. "Ohh you're unfairly affecting the BGS by playing missions in solo where I can't shoot you down". Yeah, because shooting players down is the best way to alter the BGS apparently. But for what it's worth, I'd love any changes I make to the BGS while mission running to be strictly local and to affect only my account. The fact that my playing in solo influences your game is for me, an unintended and undesirable side effect.
But since ED isn't - for now at least - a single player game, I'll stick to solo. It works the best for me.
I've been out in the black, well beyond the bubble since september. Apart from a 1 day stay at Colonia, it's been 141 days since I've seen another ship, NPC or player.
Since I'm out exploring, this is fine for me. I don't want NPCs in size 12 boots stamping around while I'm trying to see the sights.
As for combat, that's why there are combat missions. And I like my trading done without the interference of someone who presumes that I'm there to be their "content".
"Oh oh, but you won't be able to play with other CMDRs" say folks.
I don't play with other commanders now. When I was in open, having to keep both eyes on the scanner watching all the commanders like a hawk for any sugestion of hostile intention was a distraction at the very least. I wasn't able to concentrate on playing my way or whatever the tagline was supposed to be, because I was too concerned about other commanders trying to play theirs. My most successful interaction with another player was "Oh he's shooting that npc, I'll go and find someone else to shoot so I don't get accused of kill stealing".
I wouldn't mind if I never saw another cmdr in space, which is why I use solo. I don't even use mobius anymore, since interacting with other players adds nothing to my game.
Then there's all the ranting about the BGS. "Ohh you're unfairly affecting the BGS by playing missions in solo where I can't shoot you down". Yeah, because shooting players down is the best way to alter the BGS apparently. But for what it's worth, I'd love any changes I make to the BGS while mission running to be strictly local and to affect only my account. The fact that my playing in solo influences your game is for me, an unintended and undesirable side effect.
But since ED isn't - for now at least - a single player game, I'll stick to solo. It works the best for me.
Personally, I feel that the game would benefit more from returning to its heritage as a single player game. All the stuff about fleet management and other multiplayer-focused features that players keep on requesting just detracts from what elite is about - an everyday dude flying around in a spaceship trying to make his way in an uncaring galaxy. Pretty much all the multiplayer focused stuff is entirely "meh" for me until the day when they bring out NPC wing mechanics and properly expand the NPC crew mechanics - I want the game to treat players and NPCs the same, everything I can do with a player I want to be able to do with random NPCs I meet. By making all the "multiplayer" content available to solo players via NPC interactions would bring great benefits to all, as the extra players in multiplayer could just fit straight into a previously NPC occupied role.
That all being said, I am a great fan of the BGS and how we, as players, are still (or should be, see following sentences) the great movers and shape the galaxy. That being said, the official writers over at FD seem to be on a power trip and are too busy forcing their story on the galaxy, rather than fleshing out the existing procedural story that we are all collectively writing; meanwhile the neutered BGS is barely capable of delivering a passable economic simulation, let alone writing a proper procedural story. Despite my complaints here, I still believe the BGS has great potential if/when FD decide to actually make it relevant.
Overall, I'd be happy if FD just removed open and limited private groups to 32 online players at a time to return focus to individual pilots and their adventures rather than trying to force explicitly independent pilots to interact with each other. However, I still like the interconnectedness of the galaxy, how we are all still playing the same story and in the same galaxy rather than everything being fractured into countless alternate realities so I would not be in favour of an offline only option.
That all being said, I am a great fan of the BGS and how we, as players, are still (or should be, see following sentences) the great movers and shape the galaxy. That being said, the official writers over at FD seem to be on a power trip and are too busy forcing their story on the galaxy, rather than fleshing out the existing procedural story that we are all collectively writing; meanwhile the neutered BGS is barely capable of delivering a passable economic simulation, let alone writing a proper procedural story. Despite my complaints here, I still believe the BGS has great potential if/when FD decide to actually make it relevant.
Overall, I'd be happy if FD just removed open and limited private groups to 32 online players at a time to return focus to individual pilots and their adventures rather than trying to force explicitly independent pilots to interact with each other. However, I still like the interconnectedness of the galaxy, how we are all still playing the same story and in the same galaxy rather than everything being fractured into countless alternate realities so I would not be in favour of an offline only option.
Single Players games have a place; but they require a good STORY LINE, ED does not have it. ED is what most Single Player games are once you've finished the games...A bit like Freelancer allowed you to continue as a trader or fighter within the world created as to stop the game from just "ending". Basically ED SP is the end game of a game, except it never started.
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Thanks. Agree, disagree it's all good. Would be a dull forum if we all thought the same. I just tend to get riled when folks get personal but other than that it's all gravy in my book.