Enemy inside the gates, Frontier please rethink this

[Ian Skippy]

When we disagree we completely disagree Sleutelbos.

However when we agree on things, we have the exact same chain of thought.

These are the sort of things SEPP and it's allies need to ask.

Heck I could be convinced to rustle up people to help when it comes down to it.

Its quite scary, isn't it? Imagine it, there is a real chance we might fight on the same side for the same reasons soon!

ED urgently needs a real territory control system for player factions, guilds. This primal desire for groups of people to control and defend a territory will keep people playing ED for years and years. It will also provide more emergent gameplay.

Look at the territory map of Eve Online:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcS4n09SRfQ

To be fair, you could make a similar vid with the 3D pp map, which looks way cooler. Not saying the pp mechanics are perfect, but thats not the point. By the way, its interesting to see all these people here who usually claim 'pp is dead' 'pp was a waste of time cause noone plays it' now suddenly argue that insane numbers of pp-cmdrs will do nasty stuff. In that sense you are correct, control for space and such (as in pp) does attract people, and lots of them.

I just cannot believe there wouldn't be enough alternative spots around the bubble for them where they could start of their Power without instantly diminishing SEPP. They're gonna expand fast enough anyway!

I dont thing 'belief' is a very strong argument. Can you tell us about these alternate spots? Are you sure they arent 'claimed' by other minor factions? You cant just 'assume' there are easy solutions without checking if they really exist.

 

[Xender]

ED urgently needs a real territory control system for player factions, guilds. This primal desire for groups of people to control and defend a territory will keep people playing ED for years and years. It will also provide more emergent gameplay.

Look at the territory map of Eve Online:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcS4n09SRfQ

Cosmo you have right! EVE is great example of well implemented territory control system.

Solution from Elite where developers manual add factions to the game and players have no real control over their factions looks like solution from fane made mod not standalone game...

Frontier, you can not just ruin things done be players in BGS and put there new Powers. Players should go at war and fight for systems!

 

[AdmiralFloof]

ED urgently needs a real territory control system for player factions, guilds. This primal desire for groups of people to control and defend a territory will keep people playing ED for years and years. It will also provide more emergent gameplay.

Look at the territory map of Eve Online:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcS4n09SRfQ

RIP Band of Brothers, one of the most elaborate corporate espionage and backstabbing in a game ever

 

[hammerreborn]

As part of the Rock Rats i have to express my concern about the matter at hand.
I just cannot believe there wouldn't be enough alternative spots around the bubble for them where they could start of their Power without instantly diminishing SEPP. They're gonna expand fast enough anyway!

Cheers,
CMDR Greytest

What makes sepp so special? What about the hundreds of other player groups that are already willingly or not under the influence of major powers?

The new power needs to be placed somewhere profitable, and the devs did so.

Adapt or move on.

 

[md2k]

As I said, tentative feelers being sent out for diplomatic purposes.

so maybe SEPP should communicate not EGP, EGP have official site with contacts, any on who want can contact with their representatives.
As from my point of view this thread not something to where EGP should come, specially this is because of how topic writer starts his thread and all other comments.
It is pretty simple, you have a problem, try to communicate and solve it.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Two different political and territorial systems (BGS and PP) at work alongside each other in the same game.
That was always going to be a marriage made in heaven, wasn't it ?
You'd think this was the eve online forum, just without the big player battles, carrier fleets, Titans and whatnot, but with twice the drama.
At least in that game you knew why you lost territory.
On second thought, there you had territory you could lose, all we have here is the imagination of "controlling" factions.

duly +1'd

 

[verminstar]

RIP Band of Brothers, one of the most elaborate corporate espionage and backstabbing in a game ever

Wasn't always like that...was a time when BOB were made up of a great many good players. Which is why everyone wanted a piece of them and over time, they turned into the very thing they used to oppose because...reasons.

 

[Goose4291]

so maybe SEPP should communicate not EGP, EGP have official site with contacts, any on who want can contact with their representatives.
As from my point of view this thread not something to where EGP should come, specially this is because of how topic writer starts his thread and all other comments.
It is pretty simple, you have a problem, try to communicate and solve it.

In the case of this situation, you're completely right (see my earlier posts where I'm asking them if they're even trying to talk to EGP).

But I meant more in a broader sense. For example, making contact with the powerplay subreddits, seen as EGP are entering their realm play, so to speak

 

[Ralph Vargr]

White Knight Meltdowns are wonderful.

*Paladin* Meldtowns are even better.

 

[Huros]

This situation is not to be taken lightly. It should be a concern for every Powerpants player, every faction, and anyone who likes to play the BGS.

 

[Goose4291]

And this is why Frontier were wrong to give players ownership of systems (yes I know it's not really ownership) in Elite Dangerous and why I was against it and against players owning stations and planet-side stations, territory etc ... because then you get people complaining like this guy.

Now don't misunderstand here, he has a valid complaint, but the real issue isn't Frontier have given system X to faction Y ... the complaint should be why have Frontier allowed players to have a sense of ownership of systems at all?

Because regardless of whether they provided the level of 'player ownership' we have now (even this new PP faction is open to all, and not a EGP only club), we'd still see the same thing. As you've seen with, SEPP, Emperor's Grace as well as the Mercs (when they were just rolling as the Dukes minor faction) of Mikunn, players are still going to latch onto ingame factions even if their own named ones hadn't been implemented.

The problem stems more in my mind from God-mod implementation of these mechanics, not their purpose. Frontiers handling of player groups has lead to a very 'haves and have nots' situation arising.

 

[Jane Turner]

In the case of this situation, you're completely right (see my earlier posts where I'm asking them if they're even trying to talk to EGP).

But I meant more in a broader sense. For example, making contact with the powerplay subreddits, seen as EGP are entering their realm play, so to speak

For what its worth I have been talking to EGP periodically since the inception of the dangerous games and more concertedly since the lock first downs were sprung 3 weeks ago. They had no part in the selection of the starter systems and do not have control over the government types they are strong and week against

 

[Andrew Gaspurr]

This thread proves something I've been saying for quite sometime.
You cant have competitive MMO gameplay elements and the devs cherry picking their favourite player groups for preferential treatment in the same game.
It just leads to a boat load of entitlement when things don't go the way that people hope they do and lots of 'my group is more important' nonsense without a level playing field.

And that's why Goonswarm and Band of Brothers is a good example about how things can go. Devs having their own RMT empires and bot farms to up their salaries and then other Devs crusading against this. All under the guise of being more right or entitled than the others. And also, every time I read 'it's ze russians!' it makes me shudder. This is exactly the type of setting that completely pollutes a gaming atmosphere. The problem is here that out-of-game things are mingled with in-game things, so you cannot roleplay/negotiate it out because of some mechanics and you also cannot implement those mechanics because it severely impacts the way 'history' goes.

A compromise would be very important here, otherwise this will derange into a WE against THEM thing, and that's bad for a gaming community. Even 1000s of russians can be friendly gamers. We don't need a new Cold War here.

 

[Goose4291]

For what its worth I have been talking to EGP periodically since the inception of the dangerous games and more concertedly since the lock first downs were sprung 3 weeks ago. They had no part in the selection of the starter systems and do not have control over the government types they are strong and week against

I don't doubt anything you've put their Jane, not even for a moment.

However a lot of assumptions are being made in this thread regarding how EGP are going to handle the SEPP issue, and SEPP don't even seem to have tried to broach the subject with them in the first instance :/

 

[the100thmonkey]

Frontiers handling of player groups has lead to a very 'haves and have nots' situation arising.

FD's handling of player groups has been abysmal. It's basically been a reactionary endeavour from the start, rather than stemming from a positive view of "this is what we want player factions to be." Speaking personally, and not as a representative of Communism Interstellar, I would be quite happy for the whole galaxy to be reset if FD were to implement player factions properly integrated into the BGS, with a clear idea of what player-run minor factions can and should be doing, and an elaborated BGS that doesn't seem to turn everything into a zero-sum game the moment two player factions interact (although that might just be more reflective of people-on-the-internet than anything else.)

Powerplay can go die in a fire. It's a response to the tension between inclusion of all playstyles and the apparently quite common impulse for people to try to control stuff, but it doesn't work because, well, it's not very good.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Frontier seem so out of touch with their playerbase at times.

You mean most of the time.

 

[Goose4291]

And that's why Goonswarm and Band of Brothers is a good example about how things can go. Devs having their own RMT empires and bot farms to up their salaries and then other Devs crusading against this. All under the guise of being more right or entitled than the others. And also, every time I read 'it's ze russians!' it makes me shudder. This is exactly the type of setting that completely pollutes a gaming atmosphere. The problem is here that out-of-game things are mingled with in-game things, so you cannot roleplay/negotiate it out because of some mechanics and you also cannot implement those mechanics because it severely impacts the way 'history' goes.

A compromise would be very important here, otherwise this will derange into a WE against THEM thing, and that's bad for a gaming community. Even 1,000's of russians can be friendly gamers. We don't need a new Cold War here.

*Nods sagely*

I fully agree with what you've written here (although you missed out the most important one inmy mind reference BoB: The Blueprints scandal)

Some of the things I've heard on a few neutral teamspeak's and discords from members of other groups that didn't get through the first stages of the Dangerous games shows the exact terrible attitude that both you and I don't want to see here.

 

[GluttonyFang]

But on a serious note, this is precisely why my player group decided to not toy with the BGS, since we have seen how FD carelessly handle PP.

It's great that they are accommodating player groups in their player base, but for some reason their implementation of a lot of features or mechanics are almost always haphazard.

 

[Bacalao]

With 10,000s of systems, nay 400 BILLION systems to choose from

No.

Aside from that ridiculous statement, I guess you have a point, though "to the victor go the spoils". In the end it was a bad implementation from the beginning. DG shouldn't exist, the biggest (systems controlled)/most active(influence games normalized for population) BGS groups should simply be promoted. Call it the dangerous games if they must, but just have it be the 10 most active minor factions, vying to become a power dynamically with each reset.

 

[md2k]

In the case of this situation, you're completely right (see my earlier posts where I'm asking them if they're even trying to talk to EGP).

But I meant more in a broader sense. For example, making contact with the powerplay subreddits, seen as EGP are entering their realm play, so to speak

EGP not entered yet to PP, it will happen only after 2.2 , even buzz about locked systems it is not completely clear what will be next and which system will be for EGP power, FD said alot, but it is not means they going to do what they said
Most probably EGP going to wait until it will be fully clear which part of space will be granted to their Power and after that they can decide what to do next.
Not think there is also lot of happiness about to be apart from their home world and their faction.