Engineering. I just realised.....

[Suvi Anwar]

Could you elaborate on your claim? A 50 fold increase in the material gathering rate has my attention but I'd like to know some details.

How does this actually work? What do you have to do to obtain them?

What kind of materials?

Crickets.

This is what I expected from what is almost certainly a hyperbolic exaggeration.

Can anyone substantiate Suvi Anwar's claim of a 5000% increase in mats gathering success at Thargoid barnacle sites?

Sheesh, some people don't LIVE on the forums.

There's a few double barnacle fields that, when cleared, provide about 100 mats and 4-8 Meta Alloys per cycle, and they are all within a small field (that can be cleared in minutes). This is by far the fastest way to gather mineral mats over driving around for hours on end or hoping to get the occasional mat from asteroid mining.

 

[Lee Archer]

The miserable sods have weighted the RNG so that not only do we have to hunt down large numbers of mat's but we have to find more of the high-tier mat's than low-tier ones.

It usually takes one G1 roll to gain access to G2.
It then takes 1 or 2 G2 rolls to gain access to G3.
Then it's 2 or 3 G3 rolls to gain access to G4.
Finally, it's 3 or 4 G4 rolls to gain access to G5.

The result of this is that not only do you have to find all the intermediate mat's to gain access to G5 but you have to find several times more of the rare mat's than the common ones.

It's like they realised that the mat' broker would allow us to negate most of the extra grind and thought "Oh no. Can't be having that. We want you to suffer".

Got half way through upgrading my Chieftain and realised there's a definite pattern here, and it's sole purpose seems to be to force players to hunt for more of the hard-to-find stuff - which is already, y'know, hard to find.

I used to look at the nested-RNG problems with the old system and think that, maybe, FDev didn't realise they were shafting us 2 or 3 times over the same thing.
Now I'm starting to think that they do realise what they're doing and it's deliberate. [sad]


Wonder if it might be time to have another look at ESO?

Haha, there will be other games in 2018, ref__d?

 

[MAAD DAWG]

There are many things I like about the mechanics and user interface for the new Engineering system.

It's obvious that a lot of thought was put into them and I think they were particularly well implemented. The simplifications and enhancements of many things connected with Engineering and Materials is genuinely appreciated.

But there is no denying it's a grind

FDev seems to have serious problems related to this game:
1. A lack of respect for its customers' time,
2. A lack of respect for its customers' investment of human resources,
3. It seems as if the Development staff doesn't actually play the game like its customers do. Instead, it appears that they dabble in it and theorize about how customers play the game,
4. Supposedly, we can play the game any way we want to, as long as it fits FDev 's ideas about wanting players to use the Engineers,
5. FDev has lost sight of what playing the game actually is.

My last point: Playing ED used to be about exploring, fighting, mining, commerce, etc. in spaceships. Because of the never ending technology escalation paradigm they've created, and the way it's been implemented, the game has become disproportionately unbalanced and is degenerating into endless rounds of materials gathering and re-engineering. This is not fun; it is not game play; it is a serious grind that FDev continue to ensure will never end. Soon after ships are engineered, new technology appears (a new Engineering upgrade system with different rules, the Guardians, new ships, new modules, etc.) to supersede the previous technology, making currently engineered ship(s) obsolete. Staying technologically current requires more materials gathering and engineering.

I understand that technology relentlessly marches forward. That's life. But the way FDev has implemented all of this is in the form of a technology chasing treadmill that is mostly busy work and is not game play.

The ED game has degenerated into a serious time sink of endless busy work. I don't need to "play" ED to create busy work in my life. I have plenty of that in reality. I wanted to play ED to get away from reality for a while.

I've made serious investments in this game, well over 1000 hours of game play in 18 months of elapsed time. I'm Triple Elite, Federation Admiral rank, and Empire King rank. I'm not going to make the same investments of time, over and over again, to keep up with the technology carrot FDev relentlessly keeps moving out of reach. If that's what this game has degenerated into, I think I'm going to find something else to do.

I want to actually play the game and stop preparing to play the game (Engineering).

 

[Genus]

Haha, there will be other games in 2018, ref__d?

X4, Empyrion, Rodon. To name a few.

 

[wrmiller]

Haha, there will be other games in 2018, ref__d?

Yep. My new game is about a week away. Then this one gets shelved for a while. With any luck, someone with better game design experience will take over this one and make it better while I'm away.

But I'm not holding my breath...

 

[MAAD DAWG]

Sheesh, some people don't LIVE on the forums.

There's a few double barnacle fields that, when cleared, provide about 100 mats and 4-8 Meta Alloys per cycle, and they are all within a small field (that can be cleared in minutes). This is by far the fastest way to gather mineral mats over driving around for hours on end or hoping to get the occasional mat from asteroid mining.

Thanks for sharing. Nice to know. But, it's a big galaxy.

How about telling us where it is? Or is it your secret?

I'll reciprocate. Ask me where to find anything, especially in abundance, and I'll tell you where to find it (if I know, and I know a lot).

 

[Frenotx]

There are many things I like about the mechanics and user interface for the new Engineering system.

It's obvious that a lot of thought was put into them and I think they were particularly well implemented. The simplifications and enhancements of many things connected with Engineering and Materials is genuinely appreciated.

But there is no denying it's a grind

FDev seems to have serious problems related to this game:
1. A lack of respect for its customers' time,
2. A lack of respect for its customers' investment of human resources,
3. It seems as if the Development staff doesn't actually play the game like its customers do. Instead, it appears that they dabble in it and theorize about how customers play the game,
4. Supposedly, we can play the game any way we want to, as long as it fits FDev 's ideas about wanting players to use the Engineers,
5. FDev has lost sight of what playing the game actually is.

My last point: Playing ED used to be about exploring, fighting, mining, commerce, etc. in spaceships. Because of the never ending technology escalation paradigm they've created, and the way it's been implemented, the game has become disproportionately unbalanced and is degenerating into endless rounds of materials gathering and re-engineering. This is not fun; it is not game play; it is a serious grind that FDev continue to ensure will never end. Soon after ships are engineered, new technology appears (a new Engineering upgrade system with different rules, the Guardians, new ships, new modules, etc.) to supersede the previous technology, making currently engineered ship(s) obsolete. Staying technologically current requires more materials gathering and engineering.

I understand that technology relentlessly marches forward. That's life. But the way FDev has implemented all of this is in the form of a technology chasing treadmill that is mostly busy work and is not game play.

The ED game has degenerated into a serious time sink of endless busy work. I don't need to "play" ED to create busy work in my life. I have plenty of that in reality. I wanted to play ED to get away from reality for a while.

I've made serious investments in this game, well over 1000 hours of game play in 18 months of elapsed time. I'm Triple Elite, Federation Admiral rank, and Empire King rank. I'm not going to make the same investments of time, over and over again, to keep up with the technology carrot FDev relentlessly keeps moving out of reach. If that's what this game has degenerated into, I think I'm going to find something else to do.

I want to actually play the game and stop preparing to play the game (Engineering).

Well said.

 

[the source 0179]

The miserable sods have weighted the RNG so that not only do we have to hunt down large numbers of mat's but we have to find more of the high-tier mat's than low-tier ones.

It usually takes one G1 roll to gain access to G2.
It then takes 1 or 2 G2 rolls to gain access to G3.
Then it's 2 or 3 G3 rolls to gain access to G4.
Finally, it's 3 or 4 G4 rolls to gain access to G5.

The result of this is that not only do you have to find all the intermediate mat's to gain access to G5 but you have to find several times more of the rare mat's than the common ones.

It's like they realised that the mat' broker would allow us to negate most of the extra grind and thought "Oh no. Can't be having that. We want you to suffer".

Got half way through upgrading my Chieftain and realised there's a definite pattern here, and it's sole purpose seems to be to force players to hunt for more of the hard-to-find stuff - which is already, y'know, hard to find.

I used to look at the nested-RNG problems with the old system and think that, maybe, FDev didn't realise they were shafting us 2 or 3 times over the same thing.
Now I'm starting to think that they do realise what they're doing and it's deliberate. [sad]


Wonder if it might be time to have another look at ESO?

Its what I've said all along since the live stream about it. It is only better for those people that did hundreds of rolls to get god mods. To the average player that was happy just having anything better and did a couple rolls its way more of a grind. And on top of that you have to do 1 through 5 with every module where before once you have max with engineer you could go straight to whatever their highest was. Equals a big grind for the average player.

 

[Frenotx]

Hellion looks promising too. Extremely buggy at this time, but they're doing space right. Newtonian physics (not the kinda sorta fake hybrid crap they settled on for Elite), explosive decompression, orbital mechanics, true multicrew, space legs. I know the games are totally different genres, but I wish Elite felt more like that than what we have now.

Hellion has an awesome feel. Needing to keep up with all the little bits on your ship really makes it feel convincing. "Coming up on a derelict ship... QUICK! GET THEIR AIR FILTER."

 

[lenna]

The miserable sods have weighted the RNG so that not only do we have to hunt down large numbers of mat's but we have to find more of the high-tier mat's than low-tier ones.

It usually takes one G1 roll to gain access to G2.
It then takes 1 or 2 G2 rolls to gain access to G3.
Then it's 2 or 3 G3 rolls to gain access to G4.
Finally, it's 3 or 4 G4 rolls to gain access to G5.

The result of this is that not only do you have to find all the intermediate mat's to gain access to G5 but you have to find several times more of the rare mat's than the common ones.

If you look at the relative gains, on balance a 3.0 G4 is on par with if not better than an average pre-3.0 G5 (at least IME).

Net result while a max-G5 in 3.0 may use more materials, on-balance you will probably use about the same amount of high-end materials as before (to get comparable results) unless you were reliably exceptionally lucky with the RNG pre-3.0.

 

[Genus]

Hellion looks promising too. Extremely buggy at this time, but they're doing space right. Newtonian physics (not the kinda sorta fake hybrid crap they settled on for Elite), explosive decompression, orbital mechanics, true multicrew, space legs. I know the games are totally different genres, but I wish Elite felt more like that than what we have now.

Hellion has an awesome feel. Needing to keep up with all the little bits on your ship really makes it feel convincing. "Coming up on a derelict ship... QUICK! GET THEIR AIR FILTER."

I shall be checking that out on the weekend. ;-) Nice one.

 

[the source 0179]

whats the point of a high tier mat when you gain it like a low tier mat just by "randomness" but then nees more of it? why not just make it all Tier one mats and simply icnrease values for higher tier grades? Well only a system devs and their stranges choices do know.

I still think they should do it like other games. You know options. Eg
1. All mats and data as now.
2. Some mats and data the rest credits.
3. All credits. But this is the most expensive way.
Or so you can buy mats and data for credits.

 

[the source 0179]

This post makes zero sense.

It makes sense to me

 

[Camisade]

Thanks for sharing. Nice to know. But, it's a big galaxy. How about telling us where it is? Or is it your secret? I'll reciprocate. Ask me where to find anything, especially in abundance, and I'll tell you where to find it (if I know, and I know a lot).

Here's a great site for learning about and locating barnacles, including which ones are "ripe" for harvesting (don't want to waste the time going to a dead or dormant one!):

https://canonn.science/codex/large-barnacles/ -- read down the page a big and you'll see links to spreadsheets that point you toward barnacle locations.

To be honest, this entire site is amazing, so once you get your barnacle fix, there's an incredible amount of other lore (and effort) that's gone into this wonderful site, too.

And then, for a special bonus, if you have trouble using the GPS coordinates to find things on a planet surface, here is a useful link that simply lets you enter your own Lat/Long, and your destination Lat/Long, and it'll tell you the bearing to fly to get direction there without having to watch your numbers count down so closely.

https://hotdoy.ca/ed/bearing/

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

There are many things I like about the mechanics and user interface for the new Engineering system.

It's obvious that a lot of thought was put into them and I think they were particularly well implemented. The simplifications and enhancements of many things connected with Engineering and Materials is genuinely appreciated.

But there is no denying it's a grind

FDev seems to have serious problems related to this game:
1. A lack of respect for its customers' time,
2. A lack of respect for its customers' investment of human resources,
3. It seems as if the Development staff doesn't actually play the game like its customers do. Instead, it appears that they dabble in it and theorize about how customers play the game,
4. Supposedly, we can play the game any way we want to, as long as it fits FDev 's ideas about wanting players to use the Engineers,
5. FDev has lost sight of what playing the game actually is.

My last point: Playing ED used to be about exploring, fighting, mining, commerce, etc. in spaceships. Because of the never ending technology escalation paradigm they've created, and the way it's been implemented, the game has become disproportionately unbalanced and is degenerating into endless rounds of materials gathering and re-engineering. This is not fun; it is not game play; it is a serious grind that FDev continue to ensure will never end. Soon after ships are engineered, new technology appears (a new Engineering upgrade system with different rules, the Guardians, new ships, new modules, etc.) to supersede the previous technology, making currently engineered ship(s) obsolete. Staying technologically current requires more materials gathering and engineering.

I understand that technology relentlessly marches forward. That's life. But the way FDev has implemented all of this is in the form of a technology chasing treadmill that is mostly busy work and is not game play.

The ED game has degenerated into a serious time sink of endless busy work. I don't need to "play" ED to create busy work in my life. I have plenty of that in reality. I wanted to play ED to get away from reality for a while.

I've made serious investments in this game, well over 1000 hours of game play in 18 months of elapsed time. I'm Triple Elite, Federation Admiral rank, and Empire King rank. I'm not going to make the same investments of time, over and over again, to keep up with the technology carrot FDev relentlessly keeps moving out of reach. If that's what this game has degenerated into, I think I'm going to find something else to do.

I want to actually play the game and stop preparing to play the game (Engineering).

Ye, when you can't play the game anymore, because there is "upkeep activity" to be done first, you know the design is problematic. I'm currently playing Warframe now again - there is stuff that is repetitive but overall you don't really have to go out of the way to find it. And it much more clearer where to get it. And I'm quite amazed how they managed to maintain an overall balance - after FIVE friggen years of constant updates and new content!!!

FIVE

YEARS

!!!

NO

SIGNIFICANT

POWER CREEEP

 

[StiTch]

Wonder if it might be time to have another look at ESO?

A very valid point, with only one slight flaw: it's more fun to fantasize about Trump while sitting on an electric fence, the line of metal fibre-infused rope lodged firmly between yonder buttcheeks, than it is to play ESO.

 

[Stealthie]

A very valid point, with only one slight flaw: it's more fun to fantasize about Trump while sitting on an electric fence, the line of metal fibre-infused rope lodged firmly between yonder buttcheeks, than it is to play ESO.

You think?

I kinda like it.

I'm a total newbie at it, though. I don't really do anything competitive. I just wander around sightseeing.

 

[StiTch]

You think?

I kinda like it.

I'm a total newbie at it, though. I don't really do anything competitive. I just wander around sightseeing.

It actually made me really quite salty.

Bethesda iterated during development that they didn't want to create Skyrim Online; that it was intended to be an ES themed MMORPG. Just...why?! Skyrim Online is exactly what everyone wanted. Why forgo the greatest tool in your belt to deliberately create a generic MMORPG that would be seen as uninventive even a couple of decades ago when MMORPGs were first hitting us?

I have never played a game before that so strongly made me think of the word "generic" with every button press.

 

[Stealthie]

It actually made me really quite salty.

Bethesda iterated during development that they didn't want to create Skyrim Online; that it was intended to be an ES themed MMORPG. Just...why?! Skyrim Online is exactly what everyone wanted. Why forgo the greatest tool in your belt to deliberately create a generic MMORPG that would be seen as uninventive even a couple of decades ago when MMORPGs were first hitting us?

I have never played a game before that so strongly made me think of the word "generic" with every button press.

A fair point.

I recall that the main thing I got from playing ESO was the desire to fire up Skyrim and play it through again.

I figure it's a bit like the KOTOR games though.
When they came out, everybody was hoping for an RPG set in the SW universe and it turned out KOTOR was set centuries (?) before SW.
After a while, though, fans just accepted them on their own merit.

ESO is a bit like that for me.
I just enjoy schlepping around, finding places from Skyrim and Oblivion.

 

[the source 0179]

This. It might be disappointing to hear but fact it was way too random even for my taste (I like unpredictibility in ED), but new system providing guaranteed upgrade is why I use Engineers.

My goal was never to 'G5 shop, grind/do it all at once' approach. I hated that. It didn't make sense. New system does.

Actually if you take real life engineers in to account it doesn't make sense.
Imagine in real life going to an engineer and saying i want your maxed out engine then the engineer says back to you sorry but your going to have to buy grade 1 then grade 2 then grade 3 then grade 4 before I'll make you a grade 5. And on top of that you'll have to buy each grade in segments so it more like your going to buy 25 grades before you get the max. You'd tell them to f off and walk out. In reality all the grades are available you just pick which one suits you and you can afford at the time. And different engineers tweek things differently so you hunt around for the one that suits you best.