EuroGamer: The state of Elite Dangerous (according to its most prominent players)

[dognosh]

ED
The bad:
RNG & grind, but every long term game has it!
The localised networking instancing system, but then the only other choice are centralised servers ,but no one wants monthly subs.

The good: (the following keep getting better)
Erm, so many things !!!
Flight model
The vastness of the galaxy
Driving on planets
Engineers
Minimalistic cockpit HUD, DB being the ultimate minimalist
Sound, I mean the ingame sounds are totally amazing
Superb integration with most HOTAS
Exploration
Less money grabbing orientated than "start criticism"

 

[Jools]

I still wonder why you (ObsidianAnt) are still not a member of FD´s customer relationship management. You are able to sum things up, gather the information you need, and develop an almost neutral view to the needs and problems of the community. You should be able to squeeze out relevant information out of FD and bring it back to "us" - as a new layer between Ed/Sandro etc.

because FD prefers 100% pure "yes men"

 

[Blackcompany]

ED
The bad:
RNG & grind, but every long term game has it!
The localised networking instancing system, but then the only other choice are centralised servers ,but no one wants monthly subs.

The good: (the following keep getting better)
Erm, so many things !!!
Flight model
The vastness of the galaxy
Driving on planets
Engineers
Minimalistic cockpit HUD, DB being the ultimate minimalist
Sound, I mean the ingame sounds are totally amazing
Superb integration with most HOTAS
Exploration
Less money grabbing orientated than "start criticism"

Sorry.

In their current state, Vastness (size for its own sake), Exploration and Driving belong under the "bad" section.

What does size add to.the game, beyond wait walls and time sinks? More Time for Netflix? I'm sorry, I play games to DO something. If I want to watch Netflix, I just log off and watch it. If a game bores me so thoroughly that I need to watch a show WHILE playing, I'll not claim.that game being big is a positive using any rational argument.

Likewise: Exploration.

Of what? With what? Brown dust balls and white ice balls. With me eyes. To find...nothing, really. How many useless identikit bases devoid of both people and game play do we need? How many rocks can you shoot before overwhelming boredom ensues?

No. Sorry. Right now, wait walls, motion sickness for its own sake and honk jumping don't count as positives in my book.

 

[lenna]

motion sickness for its own sake

I take it you are referring to SRV exploration/roving, in which case I think you are missing a setting or two that address the motion sickness issue associated with driving over some of the more rolling and rougher terrains.

When I first switched to the VIVE I found the SRV motion intolerable but then I discovered a setting that almost completely eliminates the problem by keeping the head tracking in-line with your real world orientation and just orienting the vehicle with the terrain. It felt a bit odd to start with but after adapting to it I feel I could not go back.

Overall, motion sickness is not a design flaw but a personal perception issue - not everyone is as susceptible as others may be.

 

[CapuchinSeven]

I have read the article, nothing but mostly useless sound bites from (or about) glory hounds IMO - that is what gaming press in general has been reduced to in the main, pure pointless drivel. If they want to talk about groups whose opinions matter perhaps they should be talking to Mobius who runs at least one fully populated private PvE focused group.

The only part of the article that really has any degree of truth or relevance is paragraph 3 (or is it 4) of the article which talks about how there is no real consensus of opinion about ED across the community. This seems to be true at a pretty shallow broad spectrum level but not true if you dig deeper into specific issues. There are people who disagree in all discussions but that is to be expected.

The PvP agenda bias and promoting of raid like mechanics in the article is palpable and it seems to be quite common in the gaming press to review games in general in the least relevant and most derogatory way possible. The gaming press can be considered largely responsible for the propagation of some of the worst mechanics and design decisions IMO.

Developers in general should snub them and ignore them overall because the gaming press is not what it used to be. It is littered with personal/organisational agendas and general bias, it is no longer a bastion of mostly neutral, unbiased, and accurate reporting.

It's interesting how most of the posts here seem to agree with the article (at least in principle if not on all points and most of the decent dissuasion seems to have come from them) and those that don't agree go right in there with the personal attacks, quickly skimming over the actual argument, if addressing it at all.

*Edited for awful spelling.*

 

[Enderby]

It's interesting how most of the posts here seem to agree with the article (at least in principle if not on all points and most of the decent dissuasion seems to have come from them) and those that don't agree go right in their with the personal attacks, quickly skimming over the actual argument, if addressing it at all.

Yeeep.

 

[lenna]

It's interesting how most of the posts here seem to agree with the article (at least in principle if not on all points and most of the decent dissuasion seems to have come from them) and those that don't agree go right in their with the personal attacks, quickly skimming over the actual argument, if addressing it at all.

There is nothing to be addressed - it is largely tripe, and the same goes for most of the gaming press these days. There is nothing personal about it, it is largely the way the gaming press behaves these days compared to the way they should behave.

That being said, no one is saying the ED is perfect, it is just there is no consensus on what needs to be improved. I am dead against increasing PvP focus, moving towards fleet mechanics, or introducing Raid like mechanics - none of which are beneficial to ED IMO and based on my experience tend to be ultimately damaging to the community as a whole (c/f other games that have introduced these mechanics). Also, do any of these things and ED stops becoming true to the Elite heritage.

Arguably, it is people like yourself that are making the debate personal with remarks like the one you just posted.

 

[verminstar]

It's interesting how most of the posts here seem to agree with the article (at least in principle if not on all points and most of the decent dissuasion seems to have come from them) and those that don't agree go right in their with the personal attacks, quickly skimming over the actual argument, if addressing it at all.

You noticed that too?

 

[Blackcompany]

I take it you are referring to SRV exploration/roving, in which case I think you are missing a setting or two that address the motion sickness issue associated with driving over some of the more rolling and rougher terrains.

When I first switched to the VIVE I found the SRV motion intolerable but then I discovered a setting that almost completely eliminates the problem by keeping the head tracking in-line with your real world orientation and just orienting the vehicle with the terrain. It felt a bit odd to start with but after adapting to it I feel I could not go back.

Overall, motion sickness is not a design flaw but a personal perception issue - not everyone is as susceptible as others may be.

Thanks for that. I use trackir, but next time I drive an SRV I will check settings.

 

[askavir]

It's interesting how most of the posts here seem to agree with the article (at least in principle if not on all points and most of the decent dissuasion seems to have come from them) and those that don't agree go right in their with the personal attacks, quickly skimming over the actual argument, if addressing it at all.

That's true.

What's funnier is that all the players in that opinion piece say they actually love the game, they just pointed out what in their own personal opinion are the game's biggest flaws. Even still, some people treat it like some kind of "press conspiracy" against the game, just because a few players pointed out some flaws in a game they admittedly like.

Maybe its a byproduct of today's western world, where people are becoming soft and fragile and require constant validation from others, and are getting more and more intolerant of things like free speech and get actually "triggered" and offended by such horrible things like different opinions.

I agree with some stuff in that opinion piece, disagree with some other stuff. In the end, its their opnion, it's worth the same as mine or anyone else's and in the end life goes on. Or should.

 

[lenna]

Maybe its a byproduct of today's western world, where people are becoming soft and fragile and require constant validation from others, and are getting more and more intolerant of things like free speech and get actually "triggered" and offended by such horrible things like different opinions.

There is a difference between different opinions, and not actually applying the correct context when assessing games. More and more frequently I have noticed that the gaming press in general fails to apply the correct context when assessing specific games. That has nothing to do with free speech, validation from others or anything like it, it is about irresponsible and unprofessional reporting from agents of agencies that allegedly are supposed to be professional.

I have also noted that as a by product of modern western society, there seems to be lessening degrees of professionalism across the board and a greater move towards rights without responsibilities.

 

[askavir]

There is a difference between different opinions, and not actually applying the correct context when assessing games. More and more frequently I have noticed that the gaming press in general fails to apply the correct context when assessing specific games. That has nothing to do with free speech, validation from others or anything like it, it is about irresponsible and unprofessional reporting from agents of agencies that allegedly are supposed to be professional.

I have also noted that as a by product of modern western society, there seems to be lessening degrees of professionalism across the board and a greater move towards rights without responsibilities.

Its not a journalism article, its an interview to a few players who state their opinions. An interview/opinion piece. Nothing but that. It's not trying to pass those opinions as fact.

And I'm speaking in general terms, people do tend to get riled up and somehow personally offended by other people's different opinions (regardless of "good" or "bad"). This forum (and most probably every other forum) is a good example. People expressing their opinions are constantly branded as either fanboys/white knights or haters. I've actually been called both, depending on each topic's subject and depending on my opinion of each subject. People tend to see different opinions as some kind of personal attacks, and cannot fathom other people having different views.

As for my comparison to today's western world, just take notice at the ongoing increasing pressure from the parts of the general public, lobbying to enforce limits to one of society's greatest accomplishments: free speech.

 

[lenna]

Its not a journalism article, its an interview to a few players who state their opinions. An interview/opinion piece. Nothing but that. It's not trying to pass those opinions as fact.

It is what passes for modern day gaming journalism. Eurogamer is often quoted as a notionally "reliable" source of information by various places.

As for my comparison to today's western world, just take notice at the ongoing increasing pressure from the parts of the general public, lobbying to enforce limits to one of society's greatest accomplishments: free speech.

People should be free to say what they want, but then they should be willing to accept the consequences if what they say goes too far. Political correctness is a step too far in policing free speech - it is more ridiculous than anything else. Dealing with preachers of doctrine that incites terrorism is not. If those preachers balanced their doctrine with moderation and tolerance supporting peaceful protest instead then it would not be an issue. Free speech may be a right in a large portion of the western world, but that right does not come without responsibilities and EVERYONE that enjoys those rights should live up to the responsibilities. If they are unable to, then maybe their corresponding rights should be restricted by more direct means (as a form of reactive punishment). Vigilance is key to ensuring that such policing does not go too far though.

 

[askavir]

People should be free to say what they want, but then they should be willing to accept the consequences if what they say goes too far. Political correctness is a step too far in policing free speech - it is more ridiculous than anything else. Dealing with preachers of doctrine that incites terrorism is not. If those preachers balanced their doctrine with moderation and tolerance supporting peaceful protest instead then it would not be an issue. Free speech may be a right in a large portion of the western world, but that right does not come without responsibilities and EVERYONE that enjoys those rights should live up to the responsibilities. If they are unable to, then maybe their corresponding rights should be restricted by more direct means (as a form of reactive punishment). Vigilance is key to ensuring that such policing does not go too far though.

While I agree with what you're saying in general, Ill just throw this: who determines what can, or cannot, be preached? And how can we trust the one policing the preacher is impartial? We simply cannot, because in the end (nearly) everyone has an agenda...

I fully agree that actions should have consequences. But words / ideas should be free, no matter how absurd they may seem to us. If someone preaches that I should burn cars in the street, I am still completely free to ignore him and discard him as a loony. If I choose to burn cars in the street, I'm the criminal, because in the end I was the one who chose to, and actually set fire to those cars. That's the price of being free, I must account by my own decisions, and cannot discard blam for my own actions because someone else said I should do it.

Your example of political correctness is good. While I do find politicall correctness to be one of today's society cancers, I still believe those people have the right to defend their ideas, even if they are absurd to me. And in the end, its the ones who choose to act on those ideas who are doing the actual harm.

Anyway, just my 2 cents

 

[lenna]

While I agree with what you're saying in general, Ill just throw this: who determines what can, or cannot, be preached? And how can we trust the one policing the preacher is impartial? We simply cannot, because in the end (nearly) everyone has an agenda...

The relevant existing laws of the society in question, the same goes for promoting software piracy or other illegal acts. If you encourage others to commit illegal acts, you are complicit in committing those acts being committed. A mafia boss does not get away scot free because they do not actually execute the crimes themselves, but have others to do them on their behalf.

 

[CapuchinSeven]

Arguably, it is people like yourself that are making the debate personal with remarks like the one you just posted.

Good grief.

If calling out posts like "there is nothing to be addressed it's tripe" after over 20 pages of actual grown up discussion which has both agreed and disagreed with the points raised (BUT has actually addressed the points rather than attacking the type of article or the subjects of the article) is making it personal..

..then yes dude whatever, I made it personal.

 

[askavir]

The relevant existing laws of the society in question, the same goes for promoting software piracy or other illegal acts. If you encourage others to commit illegal acts, you are complicit in committing those acts being committed. A mafia boss does not get away scot free because they do not actually execute the crimes themselves, but have others to do them on their behalf.

The mafia boss would be powerless and harmless if no one was willing to act on his behalf. The mob boss words do not kill anyone, the hitman's gun does. Unless of course the mob boss forced or coerced the hitmnan to do it. But then it's no longer just preaching, it's acting.

If I preach about democracy in certain countries I will end up imprisoned (or worse). Just because someone wrote something on a piece of paper and called it law, it does not necessarily makes it "right".

That's why freedom of speech, and the free exchange / debate / confrontation of ideas is so important. Its the thing that moves humanity forward. Giving someone the power of restricting free speech is too big a power to give someone. And that power will end up being used on someone's agenda.

You may of course disagree with me, but I will always defend your absolute right to do it.

 

[lenna]

If calling out posts like "there is nothing to be addressed it's tripe"

The Eurogamer article is complete tripe, and the reporter's blatant bias in favour of certain forms of gameplay is palpable.

Of course the PvP centric crowd and those in support of raid or fleet mechanics are going to find it worth talking about. But, the fundamental point is that does not change the fact that such things are pretty out of scope where ED is concerned. ED is not the only game to be reported on in an out of context fashion by Eurogamer and similar e-Journalist sites either.

There is nothing personal about that, it is empirical fact.

 

[cmdrka]

The Eurogamer article is complete tripe, and the reporter's blatant bias to a certain forms of gameplay is palpable.

I didn't see that bias so I would appreciate it if you'd say what forms of gameplay he's biased against.

 

[lenna]

I didn't see that bias so I would appreciate it if you'd say what forms of gameplay he's biased against.

Not against but for... and I have already mentioned them in the second paragraph of the post you have responded to.