EVO's newest upload about JWE2 and Frontier
- Thread starter Paleoguy
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.... I just watched this, and the last section (theoretically) brings me to tears.
Please don't do what you did to elite to jurassic world evolution. This game actually earns you money?
Its word for word what the elite community said before the community and the game began to disengage. Exactly the same. Its terrible to see it happen again. I just subscribed to evo recently.
Please don't do what you did to elite to jurassic world evolution. This game actually earns you money?
Its word for word what the elite community said before the community and the game began to disengage. Exactly the same. Its terrible to see it happen again. I just subscribed to evo recently.
I actually went on an actual game industry developer's (individual, not company) Discord server, the same dev guy I mentioned before, and this is what he/she had to say during the topic I brought up, which I first started last week with other members who are also and former industry employee developers.
So, the rumor that “not much exciting content that I like/want to see releasing this year” are because of the “layoff boogeyman” striking them, at least one month ago as per my research goes, is fundamentally false. The problem with Frontier in their financial and annual reports on September is their most recent title releases and some older portfolios weren’t making enough money. And those reports of Frontier layoffs from last month are still under personal scrutiny.
So, the rumor that “not much exciting content that I like/want to see releasing this year” are because of the “layoff boogeyman” striking them, at least one month ago as per my research goes, is fundamentally false. The problem with Frontier in their financial and annual reports on September is their most recent title releases and some older portfolios weren’t making enough money. And those reports of Frontier layoffs from last month are still under personal scrutiny.
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Another thing I want to add that I cannot stress is Evolution Square and her comments section engagers, as much as my heart goes out to them not knowing what the future is, know absolutely nothing about the video game industry and how things work and why in the long run. The complications of marketing and its teams, development processes, layoff effect timeframes, and the "80-20-5 rule" as the dev guy puts it in their tumblr blog are such topics. Most of what she goes in her video is purely speculation on her part, but I can totally understand why and really can’t blame her at all for it. It’s also something I at least tried to help her with on X by linking her to the dev guy's places which helped me understand such things since early 2020.
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The "2-3 updates ahead " practice is not followed by all companies. From what I tracked on steamdb, the development cycle for JWE2 went only 1 update ahead, so the layoff effect might be visible earlier.
On the other hand we cannot currently rely on steamdb in guessing the state of things. The current drop in number of commits (or simply saying changes in source code) for JWE2 is most likely related to the currently tested content. Things will be clearer after the new pdlc hits the pre-release and media phase; at that moment new signs of work should be visible on steamdb (hopefully).
The earliest report of Frontier having layoffs throughout this entire year, and between now and 2019, is October 17. That’s far too early for any of their older game’s content developing processes to be significantly affected within the nest several months.
Plenty of the concerns of them having layoffs is mainly from the fact that several other game companies around the world, as well as any other tech company, are doing it. But it alone is not a smoking gun to mean anything significant for them or their already released games and their content updates and PDLCs.
The reason why Frontier isn’t making enough satisfactory money is mostly because their most recent game title releases and their Foundry portfolio weren’t working as well. It should also be noted in other reports, they state they are confident they can get back on track, but only time will tell of they are successful or not in doing that.
Edit: After some more thorough investigation time, turns out they really are doing layoffs. BUT, if they have been doing layoffs in some form before that date, it’s probably not too much of it yet like plenty of other game companies, and happening not too long ago, like 3 months for example. If it was happening since April or March, that’s no reason to explain why most of 2023’s updates “don’t have as much as I would’ve liked”, assuming if the affects didn’t happen until 6 months later, but I don’t think so. Remember, layoffs don’t have an “instant” effect for stuff within at least several months, because it takes longer to see those effects on games and content much later down the line, especially for games not released yet.
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Well one of the things they said a few reports ago was along the lines of the new ceo wanting to make best use of the teams available.. which may have resulted in "all teams on paid content only"? Hopefully the dlc will be good then.
I think the one hope jwe has is this franchise has been frontiers main earner for a while, so if its a case of last man standing this will probably be it.
It looks like the warhammer game will probably flop or be below expectations so the bumpiness might continue. I did notice at the last sale jwe2 was strangely not on sale (still dont have all the dlcs) so that might be interesting as well.
From being a long time frontier player through elite though, i think the lesson has been taught well. Frontiers development ethos of bare bones skeletons, tools rather than content, and high presentation makes them kings of the bargain bin... and i think they rose to fame in an environment of zero competition from the industry at large. In 2023, the rest of the industry is providing well, and frontier grade development is distantly forgotten. Its further proven by jwe2, possibly their most well rounded game, is doing well.
I think the one hope jwe has is this franchise has been frontiers main earner for a while, so if its a case of last man standing this will probably be it.
It looks like the warhammer game will probably flop or be below expectations so the bumpiness might continue. I did notice at the last sale jwe2 was strangely not on sale (still dont have all the dlcs) so that might be interesting as well.
From being a long time frontier player through elite though, i think the lesson has been taught well. Frontiers development ethos of bare bones skeletons, tools rather than content, and high presentation makes them kings of the bargain bin... and i think they rose to fame in an environment of zero competition from the industry at large. In 2023, the rest of the industry is providing well, and frontier grade development is distantly forgotten. Its further proven by jwe2, possibly their most well rounded game, is doing well.
EVO's next DLC prediction video. Even though it's not news, its fun to speculate a DLC that we know we will receive soon.
I don't believe the wall papers were purposefully teasing anything, past and future, anymore. I already said more about it here:
More in the future, or will JWE2 closed down?
Wait, I'm not up to date with JWE news. What's this all about? Before the Marine Species Pack came out, Frontier posted an image with the previous two DLCs, the Mosasaurus, and the goat in it. The Mosasaurus turned out to be the MSP.
But, in my own thread, I did post speculations in it already, feeling it will be an expansion pack, something I don't think even she realizes already that the terms "packs" and "expansions" are (in a generic sense) synonymous, something Frontier have used in their latest and all other annual and interim reports I've read from their website (for both JWE2 and JWE1), and what everybody else in the industry uses to mean. Hence the existing term, "expansion pack". The expansion packs I've speculated there are "Site B" or "Camp Cretaceous" themed, which I feel are more likely to happen than a couple others I have.
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I heard about all the news and talk about Frontier's Layoffs. I would like to send my best wishes to the entire team. Best of luck. I hope that Frontier is able to weather the storm. Honestly I think that the only way for JWE2 to remain is perhaps raising the price on the DLC'S. What do you think? I'd appreciate any input.
A video with general Frontier news with JWE2 info in it.
Deladysigner is planet biased
Even looking at the graph she screenshotted, both jurassic games earn more than their other titles, so even with royalty im sure they're interesting. Planet zoo being the close second.The elite side of the forum in the past has done alot of theory crafting on frontiers company situation, its a familiar topic. The only things to be said are, i hope frontier can stay reasonably whole given their now 200ish share price and the warhammer flop. Also there's just a little a bit of karma from the elite players point of view.. the success of elite dangerous was used to fund studio expansion and diversification into multiple titles, it helped pay for jwe and planet zoo most likely, but elite was very much neglected as a result and broke alot of hearts over there. Growth into a 5 team studio at frontier wasn't without cost to players... for us, the financial success we gave frontier would have been morally better spent maintining elite instead of taking chances at other titles, so for some you don't feel that sorry for them. Elite was also sold under a kickstarter which hasn't been realised, that's the other point.
Personal grievances aside, jwe 2, and maybe by planet zoo 2, frontier will have made 2 games that are good without reservation, so hopefully frontier will have a chance to continue their more ethical good games for positive reviews and financial success rather than persue being a publisher and failing.
(... From their annual report it doesn't seem like that though. They only lesson they have stated to have learned was that to continue with their trademark bare bones development they need to find even more neglected gaming niches and do what they do rather than pay and earn via win/win games. )
Anyway.
Yeah. Nothing against the content creators, but unless they're part of the official forums their info isn't always correct. The ones I really like in particular are Old Country, SalamAnders, and LeafProductions, because those 3 get their info here.Deladysigner is planet biased
Evolution Square, BestinSlot, and DeLadySigner don't always have the most correct info
So...the DLC video that Fletcher put out yesterday got spicey...so he's decided to do a live stream where we can all talk and discuss things.
He makes some good points, but still can't see that most of his own requests don't actually do much that improve the longevity of the game either. Adding more maps and building sets is still just a temporary boost, if we continue to ignore the core gameplay loop needing more depth and expansion we are doomed. The game isn't very engaging and struggles to retain player interests 1-2 months after a new release expansion or DLC. Fundamentally, you are still just doing the same thing as before, and that has to change.