Exploration Content Suggestion/Request

[Sunleader]

This cant be said often enough.
So I.ll just add another List of Possible Exploration Content to make this Empty Galaxy a Place worth Exploring.

This List is meant to Filled by others as well
So feel Free to Add to the List.

However. I ask you to keep in mind. That this List is for General Exploration Content.
This does NOT Include Unique One Time Event Contents or Extensive Storylines. And it does NOT Include the Extensive Programming of new Features.


So keep in Mind that your Suggestions should be:
- Something that makes sense in the Universe and the Lore of Elite Dangerous
- Something that makes sense to exist multiple times or be repeatable
- Something that is possible with the current Mechanics and does not require Extensive new Mechanics to be Programmed.



1.
Unknown/Rare Mineral/Sediment/Element etc.
Can be Found in Asteroids or on Surfaces of Unknown Systems.
These can be Scanned and Samples can be Collected for Exploration Rewards.
Rarity should be around 1 per 1000 Systems. Pls note this would be an Permanent Modifier for the System. So it would happen on a Certain Planet/Belt/System albeit the exact location of it spawning is random of course

2.
Unknown Bacteria/Lifeform etc.
Can be Found on Planets which have Volcanoes and Heated Water. (geysers)
Possibly Exported from Humans possibly born by itself who knows
Can be Scanned and Sampled for Exploration Rewards.
Rarity should be around 1 per 5000 Systems

3.
Other Explorer, Explorer Wreckages, SRV Wreckages etc.
Well this one is self Explaining. Other Explorers are out there. So it should at least in a rare case happen that you find remains of an SRV.
This is especially Interesting. Because if you find an SRV you might find an Old Ship that Ran out of Fuel but is otherwise still fairly Intact. Because the Pilot Died out there.
Rarity should vary and depend on Random Chances.

4.
Rogue Settlement, Illegal Settlement, Inofficial Settlement, Unregistered Space Station, Unregistered Colony,
These would be People which in Private opened a Camp or a Colony outside the Bubble. They might have been there for Decades or even Centuries.
So the Settlement or Space Station might be an super small thing without even Landing Pads or it might also be a Medium Sized Settlement which has own Ships that gather Food and Ressources in Vicinity.
Unlike Official Stations and Settlements they might not give you landing permission, they might be Hostile or Peaceful, they could have slightly different Graphics or even slightly modified Ships especially Older Type Ships
You could Contact them, Scan them Or even Attack them. they might offer Fuel and Repairs or some sort of Commodity called Colonist Artifacts. Possibly you might even get a Special Mission to Evacuate Part of the Population back to Human Systems if you got Cabins available for them
Rarity should be extremely rare as they have a Permanent Presence and Location. (Albeit they would not Show up on Long Range Scans and would only appear if one is Close enough

5.
Abandoned Settlement, Outpost, Debris of a Space Station or Mining Station
These would be Remnants of some sort of Human Activity. It might be whats left of the Attempt to Settle and Illegal Colony in the Black. Or it might be whats left over from an Long Range Mining Operation that wanted to tap untouched Astroids Belts for Ressources.
The Player could Sample the Debris, Scan for Data Points and Entries in the Logs. Or gather Commodities or Materials from the Abandoned Facilities Storages.
Rarity slightly more common than the above as these dont need to have Permanent Locations.




Well then.
Your turn guys.
Lets keep FD Reminded that there is more they can add than Big New Mechanics and Epic Events as well as New Ships etc.
Lets keep FD Reminded that they should spend more time Filling the Universe rather than Expanding it

 

[MBaldelli]

Hmmm.. Can't be said enough, true.. Can be disputed to no end just as easily though. Let's try a little of this from a Deep Space Surveyor's POV.

1. Anything other than surface minerals for Engineering is going to need a refinery and cargo bays. I am using an ASPX, not a Python for surveying and I'm not going to have the space to sacrifice my Fuel Scoop, AFMU, and Shields for it... Shields are there because I'm not convinced that Thargoids aren't excreted into unknown/un-surveyed systems as of yet. And I would like a bit of protection when I do eventually return to the Bubble from NPCs (and if on the rare occasion I'm playing in open -- gankers).

2. At the present time, that would mean we'd be dealing with anaerobic bacteria. While it would be refreshing that there is life outside of humans and Thargoids, I don't think that FDev has worked out the issues with the engine adding more like like NMS. I believe we'll be seeing landing on atmospheric planets long before we'll be seeing life outside of humans and Thargoids (other than stories like the Generation Ship that was killed by such a bacteria).

3. If one is playing in open, sure... But the odds of finding other explorers are longer than winning a national lottery. Explorer wreckage can be found... You'll know it's explorer wreckage when you're finding Exploration Data Caches in Degraded Signal USS during supercruise in a system. You can find it and SRV wreckage on a planet if you stay in the gravity well longer than 20 minutes. Found some of that when I entered the Ploea Eurl Sector. Also found it in the Vela Dark Sector as well.

4. (and 5) Let's point out some "facts".. In the form of statistics. You're dealing with a sandbox similar to the Milky Way which is 100,000 LY wide, 2,000 LY tall and containing approximately 400 billion stars. Tell me, what's the odds of finding such a settlement? I believe the odds of being struck by lightning are infinitely better (1:5000)

 

[Sunleader]

Hmmm.. Can't be said enough, true.. Can be disputed to no end just as easily though. Let's try a little of this from a Deep Space Surveyor's POV.

1. Anything other than surface minerals for Engineering is going to need a refinery and cargo bays. I am using an ASPX, not a Python for surveying and I'm not going to have the space to sacrifice my Fuel Scoop, AFMU, and Shields for it... Shields are there because I'm not convinced that Thargoids aren't excreted into unknown/un-surveyed systems as of yet. And I would like a bit of protection when I do eventually return to the Bubble from NPCs (and if on the rare occasion I'm playing in open -- gankers).

2. At the present time, that would mean we'd be dealing with anaerobic bacteria. While it would be refreshing that there is life outside of humans and Thargoids, I don't think that FDev has worked out the issues with the engine adding more like like NMS. I believe we'll be seeing landing on atmospheric planets long before we'll be seeing life outside of humans and Thargoids (other than stories like the Generation Ship that was killed by such a bacteria).

3. If one is playing in open, sure... But the odds of finding other explorers are longer than winning a national lottery. Explorer wreckage can be found... You'll know it's explorer wreckage when you're finding Exploration Data Caches in Degraded Signal USS during supercruise in a system. You can find it and SRV wreckage on a planet if you stay in the gravity well longer than 20 minutes. Found some of that when I entered the Ploea Eurl Sector. Also found it in the Vela Dark Sector as well.

4. (and 5) Let's point out some "facts".. In the form of statistics. You're dealing with a sandbox similar to the Milky Way which is 100,000 LY wide, 2,000 LY tall and containing approximately 400 billion stars. Tell me, what's the odds of finding such a settlement? I believe the odds of being struck by lightning are infinitely better (1:5000)

1.
I think you did not Understand this one.
I said you can Scan and Sample it.
Meaning it would be Data and Materials.
It might come out of Asteroids if using a Mining Laser as an Secondary Part. But it would not be stuff that can be Mined in Tons. So it would not by Default Require Refinery or Mining Lasers.
In Fact for what would it require an Refinery. We dont even know what it is. So Refining it should not be Possible in the First Place because it needs to be Researched first
Meaning you would only Gather the Fragments as Samples. Not Refine it.

2.
Since this kind of Bacteria does not need to work as an Actual Lifeform or anything. And can just be considered Data Scan Points on Geysers and Possibly and Material Sample Spawned by Shooting it with the SRV.
I see absolutely no Trouble in making this work with the Current Engine.
By the way. All of my Suggestions are made in a way which requires absolutely no Addition of new Mechanics etc

3.
And who said that only Players are Allowed to be Explorers ?
NPCs can do this Job as well.
We got 400 Billion Stars. But just how many Humans do you think we got by now *gg*

4.
Oh I would actually say the Chance is not that Bad.
You see Mate.
As I said above. We got 400 Billion Star Systems. But alone the Powerplay Factions have over 1 Trillion People under their Controlled Systems. And they aint Covering the entire Bubble.
We got Millions maybe Billions of Companies, Ships etc etc.
And any somewhat bigger Group among them has the Ability to take his Ship and Start an Small Outpost in the Black.
Sure they might not have the Ressources to Build some Big Outpost or Space Station with Thousands or even Million of People on Board like the Official ones we got.
But its Fairly Certain to assume that they are very well able to Found a Smaller Outpost or even an smaller Space Station with a few Hundred People on them.

And in Fact especially in the closer Area around the Bubble I would expect this kind of thing to not be such an Super Rare Find.
Of course the further you get from the Bubble. The more Rare it would get.
And while you might not that rarely Find an small Unregistered Settlement or Hideout close to the Bubble.
And Larger City or Colony might be Incredible Rare. Maybe so rare that just a few Thousand of em Exist throughout the entire Galaxy.

But that would be all the more Reason for Explorers to Search for them

 

[MBaldelli]

OKAY... I must be suffering from DEU issues at the moment.

1. Why sample? We know what it is when we target it. Sampling would indicate that it's an unknown element that we homo sapiens are not familiar with. Standard spectrometer scans would provide this information without the need to sample. And it's not as though the current gaming environment would introduce unknown periodic elements nor does it really seem to work on refinement issues that occur in the real world. This to me reads as standard player sadism, and I have very little want to be the masochistic target for player sadism to make the game feel more alive (and I'm throwing up a little bit in my mouth as I type that).

2. ibid It would introduce an element outside of the game's current mechanics. We only know of the existence of anaerobic bacteria based on a text story told by plugging into a data port on the Generation Ship that dealt with ejecting the bodies into space. There is no current proof of its existence in the game. Sounds easy? Sure, everything sounds easy in theory. Let's use landing on planets with atmospheres. Sounds good right? Why don't we have it then if it's easy. And it was promised shortly as part of the introduction to Horizons. We're how far along and still can't land on planets with atmospheres?

3. All right, live NPC explorers; I admit I glazed over this. Why? Several reasons against even this. 1. Think about the Beluga NPCs and stations for one. I'd hate to see an explorer pilot aiming for me as though I'm not even there. 2. What mechanics do you want for an NPC Exploration Pilot? The same as a Player? a. Kill the opposition for the first discovered by for a star system? (See the bit about player sadism and my adamant dislike of it). b. Give the First Discovered by to Commander NPC Pilot? (See the bit about player sadism and my adamant dislike of it) I'd rather see Manfaced MissileTits as a first discovered by, than Duane Dibley. Yes, that's a player's user name. Plus this is going into the realm of game omniscience and that always meets with opposition by the player base. c. Have them give you canned chat when you encounter them? (Seriously aren't you tired of the Wedding Barge canned chat? Lord knows I'm amused, but I am).

I don't think you're understanding the odds, but that's all right there aren't many people that can think of long and short odds. RNG is already completely skewed by USS 10 LY outside the bubble. I am current 3,300+ LY from the bubble and I am seeing Degraded Signal Sources every to every other system I am currently surveying. While they only offer data caches and are debris of ships, this is evidence the RNG is being generated on the player and not the sandbox.

You might not understand this; it's immersion breaking on how lonely it is out there in the Deep Black. And what you're suggesting with #4 & #5 is to add more RNG to this hot mess.

About the only part I can find myself in agreement with your epilogue about how to apply this to the Bubble. But any farther out? Nope.. Not at all. And I'm not at all confident it could be done given the way the Degraded Signal Sources are showing up for me.

Oh, and I just remembered after taking a breather -- there are still things to be found according to the devs at Frontier Expo. Have you had luck to find any of them? It's good to suggest, but as I was saying in another explorer suggestions thread, I believe the devs have put them in the game near to the Bubble. And it's a good darn chance until all those have been found, I don't think they're doing to be adding more given some of them have been there for years.

 

[Sunleader]

OKAY... I must be suffering from DEU issues at the moment.

1. Why sample? We know what it is when we target it. Sampling would indicate that it's an unknown element that we homo sapiens are not familiar with. Standard spectrometer scans would provide this information without the need to sample. And it's not as though the current gaming environment would introduce unknown periodic elements nor does it really seem to work on refinement issues that occur in the real world. This to me reads as standard player sadism, and I have very little want to be the masochistic target for player sadism to make the game feel more alive (and I'm throwing up a little bit in my mouth as I type that).

2. ibid It would introduce an element outside of the game's current mechanics. We only know of the existence of anaerobic bacteria based on a text story told by plugging into a data port on the Generation Ship that dealt with ejecting the bodies into space. There is no current proof of its existence in the game. Sounds easy? Sure, everything sounds easy in theory. Let's use landing on planets with atmospheres. Sounds good right? Why don't we have it then if it's easy. And it was promised shortly as part of the introduction to Horizons. We're how far along and still can't land on planets with atmospheres?

3. All right, live NPC explorers; I admit I glazed over this. Why? Several reasons against even this. 1. Think about the Beluga NPCs and stations for one. I'd hate to see an explorer pilot aiming for me as though I'm not even there. 2. What mechanics do you want for an NPC Exploration Pilot? The same as a Player? a. Kill the opposition for the first discovered by for a star system? (See the bit about player sadism and my adamant dislike of it). b. Give the First Discovered by to Commander NPC Pilot? (See the bit about player sadism and my adamant dislike of it) I'd rather see Manfaced MissileTits as a first discovered by, than Duane Dibley. Yes, that's a player's user name. Plus this is going into the realm of game omniscience and that always meets with opposition by the player base. c. Have them give you canned chat when you encounter them? (Seriously aren't you tired of the Wedding Barge canned chat? Lord knows I'm amused, but I am).

I don't think you're understanding the odds, but that's all right there aren't many people that can think of long and short odds. RNG is already completely skewed by USS 10 LY outside the bubble. I am current 3,300+ LY from the bubble and I am seeing Degraded Signal Sources every to every other system I am currently surveying. While they only offer data caches and are debris of ships, this is evidence the RNG is being generated on the player and not the sandbox.

You might not understand this; it's immersion breaking on how lonely it is out there in the Deep Black. And what you're suggesting with #4 & #5 is to add more RNG to this hot mess.

About the only part I can find myself in agreement with your epilogue about how to apply this to the Bubble. But any farther out? Nope.. Not at all. And I'm not at all confident it could be done given the way the Degraded Signal Sources are showing up for me.

Oh, and I just remembered after taking a breather -- there are still things to be found according to the devs at Frontier Expo. Have you had luck to find any of them? It's good to suggest, but as I was saying in another explorer suggestions thread, I believe the devs have put them in the game near to the Bubble. And it's a good darn chance until all those have been found, I don't think they're doing to be adding more given some of them have been there for years.

I got no Idea what DEU issues are. But if you ask me you either got trouble reading or you have absolutely no idea how game mechanics work.

1.
lol.
Mate. The Assumption that Humanity already knows every possible Material Existent in the Universe is beyond Arrogant.
And the Idea that there is no Materials available that might not be worth Sampling due to being anomal or showing anomal behavior for this kind of Material is even more Absurd.

Moreover if you go by the Idea that Humanity already knows everything and can identify everything anyways. Then we should scratch Exploration entirely. Because hey we apparently know everything anyways right
Why bother Exploring at all if theres just stuff we already know

2.
That comment makes no sense.
You just explained that its basicly no problem at all and that it requires no additional mechanics. And then you just went ahead and compared it with something that not only is very hard to do but also obviously requires additional Mechanics.
For your Info.
This Suggestion of mine. Requires a Geyser that you can Scan and Shoot to get some Mineral and Fluid Samples containing said Bacteria. This Requires absolutely no New Mechanics. Its already Perfectly Implemented in the Game for other things like Engineering Materials and Thargoid Materials which works entirely the Same.
So you only need 2-3 Minor Graphics and 1-2 Flavour Text Lines.

In Comparisson to that. Atmospheric Landings require the complete Physics Engine to work with Air Resistance and Aerodynamics of Spaceships. As well as requiring an entire New Set of Graphical Effects and Animations.
Comparing this is like claiming that a Computer cannot Run Age of Empires 2 because he is unable to Run Far Cry 3 on highest Graphic Settings........
Or putting it more bluntly your comment makes no sense whatsoever.

3.
Lol Mate. Are you trying to Troll here on Purpose or something ?????
No Offense but this is an Random Encounter. He Practically does not need to do anything aside from being there so you can find him.
If you want you could extent his usefulness of course. He could be part of an Expedition and by listening to their Coms he might mention an close System with Valuable Exploration Targets. You could kill him for Exploration Data Caches. He could require Help offering you an Reward if you got Repair or Fuel Drones on you to help him out. Or he could just be there Scanning a System or Scanning an Asteroid Belt.
There is no need for him to have any Big Sense Mate. The Idea is to Add content so you got something to find. Something that gives you some more variety in your Exploration.
Its not like any Encounter you make needs to be some Big Issue or Mission for you.

4.
Mate I think your not Understanding the Idea here at all.
This Suggestions are for more commonly Found stuff. More Variety for the General Job.
Not for Epic Big Events and Super Rare Finds that are Unique.
And Mate. If you did not notice it. This entire Galaxy is RNG Created.
If you dislike RNG. I think your in the entirely wrong Game lol..... Because this Game practically lives on RNG.
And it will Continue to Expand on RNG like Crazy.

My Suggestions are indeed adding to the RNG.
Because maybe you failed to notice it. But the Base System of this Game is a Gigantic RNG System.
And any Suggestions that are Supposed to work without extensive additional Programming are Logically going to be within RNG System.

If you want to Wait for new Content without RNG. Then I fear you will wait for another 50 years. Because with 400 Billion Systems. Non RNG Content means adding it 1 by 1 with an Chance of 1 to 400 Billion to find it. And it being entirely useless as Exploration Target the moment just 1 User Found it. Because well then it has been Found already and no longer is something new to Find.
Needless to say. That this way finding anything thats more than 2000 LY away from the Bubble effectively becomes Impossible. Because the Devs will add everything close to the Bubble as the stuff further out than maybe 2000 LY will not be Found for 10 or 20 years. Assuming the Game still Exists at this Point.
So erm Yeah. Sorry but seriously bad idea Mate.

 

[MBaldelli]

DEU = Defective End User. I don't refer to you... I refer to some of the people I dealt with while reading and responding to your suggestions.

And my experience is a split between what I've been able to determine about the mechanics of the game coupled with experiences both in game and in my life. While I have done programming and it doesn't apply to gaming, I can tell you that gaming programmers/developers and database programmers/developers have similar mindsets. I also have rather extensive knowledge in science and science fiction given that I am often asked to proof read short stories, novellas and stories involving "hard sci-fi" through to science-fantasy. Both for the readability as well as the believability of the genres. I know I'm extremely opinionated as well as the sort of polymath that people can't stand because I'm somewhere between smart- to bloody-know-it-all.

Now that I've established my credentials. What are yours as you try to goad me with "you don't know what you're talking about.."

Your debate is rapidly leaving the realm of what's currently established, what science has been able to prove so far and what FDev has attempted -- rather painstakingly -- to reproduce for the sandbox of this game. It is in my estimation and very strong opinion going your suggestions are entering into the realm of technobabble that we expect from Star Trek. Dilithium, Trilithium, Chroniton Particles, Kironide, Pergium and so on ad nausea, ad infinitum.

This game is what the genre calls hard sci-fi" . It tries to work within the realm of science, while bending it in appropriate and/or limited methods order to make the game seem plausible and possible.

While I would like to think that it's entirely probably that there are elements that exist outside of what we understand of the periodic table -- until it's shown from the Spectroscopy done when looking up into space -- so far we haven't... We have only found those things on our periodic table. With that in mind, what you're suggesting -- good as you might think that it is -- is outside the scope of what's being presented in the game. So in essence you're adding materials and minerals outside that scope. And as a programmer, I would tell you -- rather flat out -- it can't be done without explaining to you the nuances of why. When pressed, I'll tell you it's outside the scope of the environment.

I could address the remainder of the points just as easily but as it stands however, the points I left you with prior have been ignored and took a different approach to the counter-issues presented.

The thing is, I'm trying to get you to think about your ideas and suggestions carefully. In my estimation they lack forethought of the current game mechanic coupled the hype that's been pushed since Expo 2017. And this almost approach to discussion and discourse you're currently demonstrating doesn't help your cause given the fact that you're actually trying to approach this not by a different perspective but instead inferring an almost ad hominem approach to a poster disagreeing with you. Me.

I'm not out to troll you. If I did you would be screaming for a moderator and slapping me with a harassment infraction. I am giving you a taste of disagreement to prove how to address the issues that can come up with your suggestions. How you use this opportunity is up to you. But ad hominem won't help your cause.

 

[Sunleader]

DEU = Defective End User. I don't refer to you... I refer to some of the people I dealt with while reading and responding to your suggestions.

And my experience is a split between what I've been able to determine about the mechanics of the game coupled with experiences both in game and in my life. While I have done programming and it doesn't apply to gaming, I can tell you that gaming programmers/developers and database programmers/developers have similar mindsets. I also have rather extensive knowledge in science and science fiction given that I am often asked to proof read short stories, novellas and stories involving "hard sci-fi" through to science-fantasy. Both for the readability as well as the believability of the genres. I know I'm extremely opinionated as well as the sort of polymath that people can't stand because I'm somewhere between smart- to bloody-know-it-all.

Now that I've established my credentials. What are yours as you try to goad me with "you don't know what you're talking about.."

Your debate is rapidly leaving the realm of what's currently established, what science has been able to prove so far and what FDev has attempted -- rather painstakingly -- to reproduce for the sandbox of this game. It is in my estimation and very strong opinion going your suggestions are entering into the realm of technobabble that we expect from Star Trek. Dilithium, Trilithium, Chroniton Particles, Kironide, Pergium and so on ad nausea, ad infinitum.

This game is what the genre calls hard sci-fi" . It tries to work within the realm of science, while bending it in appropriate and/or limited methods order to make the game seem plausible and possible.

While I would like to think that it's entirely probably that there are elements that exist outside of what we understand of the periodic table -- until it's shown from the Spectroscopy done when looking up into space -- so far we haven't... We have only found those things on our periodic table. With that in mind, what you're suggesting -- good as you might think that it is -- is outside the scope of what's being presented in the game. So in essence you're adding materials and minerals outside that scope. And as a programmer, I would tell you -- rather flat out -- it can't be done without explaining to you the nuances of why. When pressed, I'll tell you it's outside the scope of the environment.

I could address the remainder of the points just as easily but as it stands however, the points I left you with prior have been ignored and took a different approach to the counter-issues presented.

The thing is, I'm trying to get you to think about your ideas and suggestions carefully. In my estimation they lack forethought of the current game mechanic coupled the hype that's been pushed since Expo 2017. And this almost approach to discussion and discourse you're currently demonstrating doesn't help your cause given the fact that you're actually trying to approach this not by a different perspective but instead inferring an almost ad hominem approach to a poster disagreeing with you. Me.

I'm not out to troll you. If I did you would be screaming for a moderator and slapping me with a harassment infraction. I am giving you a taste of disagreement to prove how to address the issues that can come up with your suggestions. How you use this opportunity is up to you. But ad hominem won't help your cause.

1.
I would actually Disagree. Because you see. I as well Programmed Machines and Automatisation. And since I have also for Hobby done Modding and Partial Programming on Games and have been part of Game Development for a short time. (Details being under NDA unfortunately) I can seriously say. That Game Development and System Development is really very very Different. And the only thing which Game Devs and System Devs think alike on. Is the User Interface and the Programming itself (because well its not that different depending on what system you use)
Which is also your Answer to your Question Below.

Also pls note. I offered another Option there. Which is what I would then assume. That your simply not Reading it Properly
Nobody is Goading you. I am merely Irritated that your Answer somehow has nothing to do with my Post.


2.
There is no Technobabble or anything here.
Your Assumption that we know everything and that nothing beyond what we know can exist. Is absurd.
At this Point in Time we cant even Identify all Elements we got on our own Planet
Much less Define all of them. And even among the ones we know. There is several Elements which can Show Anomalies that we cant even Explain. Including that some of them despite being defined with an Atom actually being a different Material than what it should be. And nobody knows why
And thats just our own Planet.
They several Times found different Materials that they could not Identify among the Minerals from Asteroid Impacts as well

So why would it be an Idea to Find Abnormal Materials on other Planets which are Unknown or which do not give the Scanner Response that they should give normally
See Mate.
This is a Game. If you Limit Ingame Exploration in a Game which is Supposed to be Playing in the Far Faaar Future. To Knowledge that is already known at our Real Time. Then you wont get very Far with the Game.
Because you have nothing to Discover and nothing to do.
You will have to include Unknown Parts. Otherwise you can Scratch the entire Idea of Exploration entirely.

Which is by the way not going against the Idea of Hard Sci Fi.
Since it is a Fact that Humanity at this Point cannot possibly know any and all Materials and Elements in the Universe. So Discovering Unknown Materials is Highly Possible. And Discovering further Abnormal Materials which might not be what we Expected is even more likely.
None of this would in any Way be Unrealistic.
Your Idea that the Universe should be Limited to the Elements and Materials that we already know Nowdays. In contrary to that is Incredible Unrealistic and Absurd

Also your Making another Fatal Mistake here.
Your assuming that we know any and all possible Materials based on the Periodic Table. But even within our own Periodic Table we already know that there are some Materials we have yet to Discover
Lets say you find an Material in Space that in the Periodic Table would get the Number 855
So well you know its 855 but thats it.
So you would not Sample this ??
Then tell me what Element would that be Please

Our Periodic Table does allow this sort of Expansion. And we are in Fact Expanding it ourselves by attempting to Artificially create further Elements by increasing the Atomic Number.


3.
See that why I said your not Reading at all.
Why would you bother trying to Explain this. Your not Playing a Scientist.
You Find it.
You Scan it.
And The Ship Computer Tells you. Sorry nope Cant tell you what it is.
So you should Safe the Scans and Return a Sample.
No Need for any new Materials or anything.
Your making this Needlessly Complicated in your Head. And keep adding and adding more stuff on top. Which is absolutely not needed at all.
Your not Playing a Scientist. Your Playing a Pilot. You dont have Extensive Science Equipment aboard to Analyze Materials and Elements in the First Place.

The One Creating an Impossible Challenge here is you yourself. And thats completely unnecessary.
I am telling you to build a Weapon. And your telling me its Impossible cause you neither got the Ressources nor Knowhow to Build an Inter Continental Nuclear Missile.
But nobody asked you to build a Damn ICBM. I asked you to build a Weapon. Break off a Thick Branch from a Tree and put a Stone on its Tip. Bam you got a Spear.
No Need to make it Super Complicated lol....

Nobody needs an Extensive Explanation as to what Material they Found. Or what it actually even is thats Abnormal on it.
Your Ship Computer cannot tell you what it is. So you dont know what it is. Thats why you Return it to the Bubble so actual Scientists can bother Analyzing it.


4.
Its not ad Hominem.
The Problem is Mate. Your not mentioning Problems with my Suggestion.
Your taking my Suggestion. Extend and Expand it into an Gigantic Scale. And then complain about this Expansion and Extensions not being Possible.
But I never Suggested this Complicated stuff that you Build together there.
Your effectively using my Suggestions as a Base to make an Highly Complicated and Big Suggestion yourself. And then start Arguing against your own Suggestion that you made by using my Ideas as an Basis.

And to me that looks like Trolling. Because the Points you address just make no sense on my own Suggestions.
They only work after Expanding and Extending them into the Suggestions that you yourself Made.
Because the Problems your mentioning. Only happen if you first Add all the stuff that you added there which was never part of my Suggestion.

 

[MBaldelli]

I'll take your first point into consideration now that you've changed your tact.

On the first point you re-addressed. You're stuck in the debate tactic of "I'm right, you're not" when it comes to the point about rare/unknown materials. Tell me, have you addressed the problem that elements on the current periodic table stopped in the 60s?

And better still those elements found in 1965 are all radioactive isotopes?

We also have another problem with the creation of fictional elements. What's the point exactly as some of the elements found on the periodic table -- which are required for space age and informational age applications -- have been ignored. With some of the elements we currently forage for are/were more predominantly used in Industrial Age applications? Never mind the fact that Polonium -- a highly radioactive element to human life -- is so casually foraged for, stored and handled by players I'm sure have never seen what it's like to be killed by that element.

It's just a game, I know.. The problem is that these elements chosen for us to forage seemed to have been picked arbitrarily by the developers because (most probably) they sounded cool and have some science applications. So again.. Why add to this table of elements when we have others ignored and are more common?

You said:
> At this Point in Time we cant even Identify all Elements we got on our own Planet

Proof to this? Please, no handwaving and the "truth is out there". I have only so much tolerance and no tin foil to make a hat to protect my brains from alien mind control rays (can't help the sarcasm, I'm afraid. I'm a skeptic by nature).

As it stands the devs and Braben have taken great pride in talking with astronomers and astrophysicists in order make the sandbox as real as possible. And astronomers use spectroscopy to find the elements they can in outer space.

Now for the points you didn't address, allow me the liberty to re-quote them here:

2. The introduction of life -- any life even on the bacterial and microscopic level -- would introduce an element outside of the game's current mechanics. Sure we have Thargoids because.. I'm sorry what was the reason for this again? Oh yes, Braben said so, he wanted to bring the enemies of the old game back into the current incarnation. After that, we only know of the existence of anaerobic bacteria based on a text story told by plugging into a data port on the Generation Ship that dealt with ejecting the bodies into space. There is no current proof of its existence in the game. Sounds easy? Sure, everything sounds easy in theory. Let's use landing on planets with atmospheres. Sounds good right? Why don't we have it then if it's easy. And it was promised shortly as part of the introduction to Horizons. We're how far along and still can't land on planets with atmospheres?

3. All right, live NPC explorers; I admit I glazed over this. Why? Several reasons against even this. 1. Think about the Beluga NPCs and stations for one. I'd hate to see an explorer pilot aiming for me as though I'm not even there. 2. What mechanics do you want for an NPC Exploration Pilot? The same as a Player? a. Kill the opposition for the first discovered by for a star system? (See the bit about player sadism and my adamant dislike of it). b. Give the First Discovered by to Commander NPC Pilot? (See the bit about player sadism and my adamant dislike of it) I'd rather see Manfaced MissileTits as a first discovered by, than Duane Dibley. Yes, that's a player's user name. Plus this is going into the realm of game omniscience and that always meets with opposition by the player base. c. Have them give you canned chat when you encounter them? (Seriously aren't you tired of the Wedding Barge canned chat? Lord knows I'm amused, but I am).

Want to try your hand with these counter points now?

Oh and one more point that I'll address that I left alone and seems to have gone by the wayside. RNG. This game is positively riddled with it to the point where it's not feeling like discovery and gaming, but instead as a bone thrown to a dog to keep it occupied. The developers have said a couple of times in live streams, that the RNG is bad in the game, however as it stands they have avoided committing themselves to fixing it.

Ergo, if the devs know it exists and it's a bad thing -- why in god's name are you suggesting we add more to the game?

 

[Sunleader]

I'll take your first point into consideration now that you've changed your tact.

On the first point you re-addressed. You're stuck in the debate tactic of "I'm right, you're not" when it comes to the point about rare/unknown materials. Tell me, have you addressed the problem that elements on the current periodic table stopped in the 60s?

https://dr282zn36sxxg.cloudfront.ne...5c94832693c7a30a3c1eeb75dbd6b322+IMAGE+IMAGE.

And better still those elements found in 1965 are all radioactive isotopes?

We also have another problem with the creation of fictional elements. What's the point exactly as some of the elements found on the periodic table -- which are required for space age and informational age applications -- have been ignored. With some of the elements we currently forage for are/were more predominantly used in Industrial Age applications? Never mind the fact that Polonium -- a highly radioactive element to human life -- is so casually foraged for, stored and handled by players I'm sure have never seen what it's like to be killed by that element.

It's just a game, I know.. The problem is that these elements chosen for us to forage seemed to have been picked arbitrarily by the developers because (most probably) they sounded cool and have some science applications. So again.. Why add to this table of elements when we have others ignored and are more common?

You said:
> At this Point in Time we cant even Identify all Elements we got on our own Planet

Proof to this? Please, no handwaving and the "truth is out there". I have only so much tolerance and no tin foil to make a hat to protect my brains from alien mind control rays (can't help the sarcasm, I'm afraid. I'm a skeptic by nature).

As it stands the devs and Braben have taken great pride in talking with astronomers and astrophysicists in order make the sandbox as real as possible. And astronomers use spectroscopy to find the elements they can in outer space.

Now for the points you didn't address, allow me the liberty to re-quote them here:

2. The introduction of life -- any life even on the bacterial and microscopic level -- would introduce an element outside of the game's current mechanics. Sure we have Thargoids because.. I'm sorry what was the reason for this again? Oh yes, Braben said so, he wanted to bring the enemies of the old game back into the current incarnation. After that, we only know of the existence of anaerobic bacteria based on a text story told by plugging into a data port on the Generation Ship that dealt with ejecting the bodies into space. There is no current proof of its existence in the game. Sounds easy? Sure, everything sounds easy in theory. Let's use landing on planets with atmospheres. Sounds good right? Why don't we have it then if it's easy. And it was promised shortly as part of the introduction to Horizons. We're how far along and still can't land on planets with atmospheres?

3. All right, live NPC explorers; I admit I glazed over this. Why? Several reasons against even this. 1. Think about the Beluga NPCs and stations for one. I'd hate to see an explorer pilot aiming for me as though I'm not even there. 2. What mechanics do you want for an NPC Exploration Pilot? The same as a Player? a. Kill the opposition for the first discovered by for a star system? (See the bit about player sadism and my adamant dislike of it). b. Give the First Discovered by to Commander NPC Pilot? (See the bit about player sadism and my adamant dislike of it) I'd rather see Manfaced MissileTits as a first discovered by, than Duane Dibley. Yes, that's a player's user name. Plus this is going into the realm of game omniscience and that always meets with opposition by the player base. c. Have them give you canned chat when you encounter them? (Seriously aren't you tired of the Wedding Barge canned chat? Lord knows I'm amused, but I am).

Want to try your hand with these counter points now?

Oh and one more point that I'll address that I left alone and seems to have gone by the wayside. RNG. This game is positively riddled with it to the point where it's not feeling like discovery and gaming, but instead as a bone thrown to a dog to keep it occupied. The developers have said a couple of times in live streams, that the RNG is bad in the game, however as it stands they have avoided committing themselves to fixing it.

Ergo, if the devs know it exists and it's a bad thing -- why in god's name are you suggesting we add more to the game?

1.
I cant be Stuck in a "I am right your Wrong" loop. Because your not Addressing my Suggestion at all.
As I said.
I never Suggested any Additional Elements or anything.
My Suggestion is and Stays Incredible Simple.
Add "Unknown Material" which your Ship Computer does not Identify.
You find this "Unknown Material" and when you Scan it your Ship Computer will tell you that he is unable to Identify it. Meaning that you should Safe the Scan and Return the Sample so it can be Analyzed.
You will never be told what it even is. All you know is its not part of the Ship Computers Library.

YOU are the one who decided for yourself that it has to be something and that it actually needs to be known to us
But you can argue on that all day for yourself because this is not my Suggestion
And I am not about to argue about you over an Suggestion that I never made


1.1
Thats easy.
I cant prove a Negative. But I can prove it by you being unable to prove it.
Please tell me the Chemical Properties of the Elements 116 and 117
When you try this you might notice how little we in fact know about this.


1.2
Mate no Offense but if I wanted to nitpick on realism I would find tons. Starting with our FSDs obviously.
I am telling you again. If you limit a Game to stuff that already exists and already is explained in our Real World. Then its not a Sci Fi Game.
What your demanding is effectively that the Game is based on our known Physics and Rules. But the Game could never work under these Rules.
Because well then in Fact Exploration stops making sense. For we already know everything and anything anyways
If your not Interested in Exploration just say so. No trouble but stop the attempt to castrate it for others by limiting it to stuff we already know.


2.
Erm Mate.
I dont know if you missed it. But in Fact we already got Gas Giants with Ammonia and Water Based Life for example.
So your Argument is Defeating itself. Because we in Fact already got simple Life as Flavour Text in the Game.

Now pls note this Argument of yours makes no Sense at all anyways. Because again. This is completely Irrelevant to Game Mechanics. For Game Mechanics dont care whats written in a Flavour Text of a Material. So the Game Mechanics dont care at all if you write that this Sample you took contains Bacterial Life or Your Moms House Baked Shocolate Muffins.


3.
You think if you repeat it often enough my Answer Changes ???

No Offense but this is an Random Encounter. He Practically does not need to do anything aside from being there so you can find him.
If you want you could extent his usefulness of course. He could be part of an Expedition and by listening to their Coms he might mention an close System with Valuable Exploration Targets. You could kill him for Exploration Data Caches. He could require Help offering you an Reward if you got Repair or Fuel Drones on you to help him out. Or he could just be there Scanning a System or Scanning an Asteroid Belt.
There is no need for him to have any Big Sense Mate. The Idea is to Add content so you got something to find. Something that gives you some more variety in your Exploration.
Its not like any Encounter you make needs to be some Big Issue or Mission for you.




4.
Mate no Offense. But at this Point I have determined you are In Fact just Trolling.
Your not Addressing my Suggestion here at all.
You are making up your own Suggestion and then try to Argue it.
Completely Ignoring my Original Suggestion.


You keep barking at me for not addressing your Arguments.
But your Arguments are completely Unrelated to my Suggestions.
If you want me to Address an Argument. First make an Argument actually related to my Suggestions.

 

[damon8r351]

I've seen wreckage of other SRVs. Especially near one of the Thargoid wrecks.

Could use some accretion disks. Black holes look kind of tame without them.

 

[Sunleader]

I've seen wreckage of other SRVs. Especially near one of the Thargoid wrecks.

Could use some accretion disks. Black holes look kind of tame without them.

Aye.
In fact alot of this can be done with Existing Graphic Parts.
Its just about adding them as an POI and increasing Variety a bit so it can be used as an General Encounter

There also is already USS with Debris Fields for example.
So using Station Debris instead of Ship Debris and maybe put up an Damaged Derelict Station. Would also be fairly easy.

As I said before. In General this Suggestion aims to have things that can be Implemented very easily without creating additional Mechanics or Assets. So pretty much anything on the list is Using Existing Graphics and Mechanics thus being easy to add with fairly little work involved.


You can also Find Crashed Ships for example now and then.
Usually Smuggler Ships which makes little sense 800 light years out of the Bubble.
And 1000 LY out it stops entirely.
Thats why I think it would be great to have Explorer Wreckages further than 1000 LY out.


What the other guy does not Understand is that there is no need for Big Epic Events and Extensive Explanations.
Nobody needs to add the 119 Element yet (albeit that would likely be possible given that I doubt we have yet found all there is in this Universe) its enough if the stuff we find is simply not in the Library. And thus is worth Sampling.
Small Events which can be Random Generated and which work as repeatable Events so Explorers have something else to do than to just Fly around using Detailed Surface Scanner over and over.


And yeah I agree
Somehow Black Holes in this Game are somewhat Tame.
You would expect them to be very Dangerous. I mean given their Massive Gravity. You should actually not be able to get very Close to them without being Affected by Gravity.
But well. Thing is we have no Idea which of the many Theories about Black Holes will Prove to be Correct in the End. So its not like I got any way to really Complain about their Interpretion here.

 

[MBaldelli]

I've seen wreckage of other SRVs. Especially near one of the Thargoid wrecks.

Could use some accretion disks. Black holes look kind of tame without them.

I came across a ring around an L-Class Star masquerading as a gas giant. This L-Class was no more the size of Neptune. The Ring was more than 5 million km wide. While I know that the devs had said that these are rock and/or ice rings on other L-Classes of this nature, at that diameter I would've sworn it would qualify as an accretion disk.

 

[varonica]

I got no Idea what DEU issues are. But if you ask me you either got trouble reading or you have absolutely no idea how game mechanics work.

1.
lol.
Mate. The Assumption that Humanity already knows every possible Material Existent in the Universe is beyond Arrogant.
And the Idea that there is no Materials available that might not be worth Sampling due to being anomal or showing anomal behavior for this kind of Material is even more Absurd.

Moreover if you go by the Idea that Humanity already knows everything and can identify everything anyways. Then we should scratch Exploration entirely. Because hey we apparently know everything anyways right
Why bother Exploring at all if theres just stuff we already know

No need to be patronising, I am going to ignore the rest of your post and just deal with this. Matter is made up of molecules, molecules are made up of atoms, we already know most of the combination of atoms for minerals on the lower end of the periodic table, the transuranic elements that probably wouldn't appear on planet surfaces are still being discovered. Imagining we would find elements on planet surfaces the we can't identify is rather untenable. Spectroscopy is a rather well developed science, we can identify elements that make up distant stars. There's no need to be patronising, it basically makes your entire post not worth reading.

Now molecules, they are a different thing altogether, but most complex molecules are associated with life, and the planets we are current able to land on aren't for the most part life bearing apart from the few life forms we have found that can survive in vacuum, and are probably artificial due to that. Tone is important when posting, it makes a big difference as to whether people can actually be bothered engaging with you or not.

 

[Sunleader]

No need to be patronising, I am going to ignore the rest of your post and just deal with this. Matter is made up of molecules, molecules are made up of atoms, we already know most of the combination of atoms for minerals on the lower end of the periodic table, the transuranic elements that probably wouldn't appear on planet surfaces are still being discovered. Imagining we would find elements on planet surfaces the we can't identify is rather untenable. Spectroscopy is a rather well developed science, we can identify elements that make up distant stars. There's no need to be patronising, it basically makes your entire post not worth reading.

Now molecules, they are a different thing altogether, but most complex molecules are associated with life, and the planets we are current able to land on aren't for the most part life bearing apart from the few life forms we have found that can survive in vacuum, and are probably artificial due to that. Tone is important when posting, it makes a big difference as to whether people can actually be bothered engaging with you or not.

Your assuming that we can identify everything in the Universe and then call me Patronizing. *gg*
I dont mind if he doesnt engage with me. I never suggested anything of what he talked about. So if he doesnt engage thats actually preferably for me.
No offense but I dont want to bother with trolling of people which aint reading my posts anyways.

 

[MBaldelli]

...we already know most of the combination of atoms for minerals on the lower end of the periodic table, the transuranic elements that probably wouldn't appear on planet surfaces are still being discovered.

True that.. especially when you consider transuranic elements are ...extremely radioactive elements: the most stable isotope has half-life less than several minutes. However, in the chart I provided, even those elements were discovered 52 years ago, and we haven't seen any new elements added to the periodic table since then. This leads to the logical conclusion that (at the present time) we're dealing with compounds and not elements.

While I am not automatically discounting the thought that in 1200+ years new elements won't be found and added to the Periodic Table, at the same time I'm having personal issues with the introduction of fantasy elements which have been used to excess in Science Fantasy stories, and still be able to think this game is more of the Hard Sci-Fi genre. Especially when one considers that there are other -- more pressing issues -- with the game mechanic to be adding fluff to exploration arm of the game.

 

[damon8r351]

I came across a ring around an L-Class Star masquerading as a gas giant. This L-Class was no more the size of Neptune. The Ring was more than 5 million km wide. While I know that the devs had said that these are rock and/or ice rings on other L-Classes of this nature, at that diameter I would've sworn it would qualify as an accretion disk.

Yeah, I know. I've seen rings around various brown dwarfs and screenshots of rings around other stars like M-classes, but only for stars that orbit a primary star just like a planet. I'm thinking more along the lines of accretion disks and protoplanetary disks around primary stars and their twins. And also around black holes. For instance Sagittarius A* is supposed to have an impressive one from what the hypotheses say. Or when more massive stars start stripping material from their close orbiting twins, like the famous painting by Chesley Bonestell of Beta Lyrae.

 

[MBaldelli]

Yeah, I know. I've seen rings around various brown dwarfs and screenshots of rings around other stars like M-classes, but only for stars that orbit a primary star just like a planet. I'm thinking more along the lines of accretion disks and protoplanetary disks around primary stars and their twins. And also around black holes. For instance Sagittarius A* is supposed to have an impressive one from what the hypotheses say. Or when more massive stars start stripping material from their close orbiting twins, like the famous painting by Chesley Bonestell of Beta Lyrae.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/63/Beta_Lyrae_Reconstruction.jpg

After reading this, I came across an article I remember when I was in high school that talked about this sort of thing:

https://www.space.com/15506-giant-black-hole-swallows-star.html

From the article:

Astronomers say supermassive black holes rip apart stars very rarely, maybe just once every 10,000 years per galaxy.

And then goes further to say:

In June 2010, the researchers spotted a bright flare from the previously dormant black hole at the center of a galaxy approximately 2.7 billion light-years away.

That's not our galaxy. That's farther out than Andromeda at 2,537,497 light years...

And the beauty of real-time games like this is; Where are we (in the game) between these odds?

 

[Sunleader]

Guys would you mind keeping on Topic.
If you want to Discuss Astronomy and Science pls make your own Topic in the Off Topic Area.

 

[varonica]

Guys would you mind keeping on Topic.
If you want to Discuss Astronomy and Science pls make your own Topic in the Off Topic Area.

Astronomy is off-topic in Elite Dangerous!

 

[Cuddlestuff]

This could also make it more interesting if it makes communit goals once an explorer finds are rare mineral have missions for players to harvest it, illegal base have missions to support or destroy them or take diplomats there. Making the player discovers something that enriched the community even non explorers. Im not an explorer but I have respect for them I’d like to see the discoveries effect the universe more.