Exploration Question

[Studders86]

With PvP being such a hot topic, how will the exploration aspect work when transferring from solo to online?

Lets say in solo i scan systems in relative safety - because there are no players to stop me - and i get back with the data. Will this mean the data is scanned on my local machine but not in online?

What if i scan a system, get the data, return to online and claim the reward? Therefore eliminating the risk or being attacked by other players.

What if i get to name that system too? Will it be named in the online universe or just my own?

Surely this has to be disabled in solo mode because i could scan lots of systems in solo, get the credits and switch to online?


Any ideas on how this is going to or could work?

 

[Vandaahl]

All from the perspective that persons are more dangerous than NPC's. We might have seen nothing yet about what NPC's will be capable of.

 

[Studders86]

All from the perspective that persons are more dangerous than NPC's. We might have seen nothing yet about what NPC's will be capable of.

Then whats the point of it showing on the galaxy map if its only NPC's that can attack you? Do NPC's need a visual reference on the galaxy map to know you are there...

Your also killing the pvp pirating aspect of the game. Them poor pirates will have nothing to chase at this rate.

Edit: I also asked about how the naming of systems would work, thats got nothing to do with how dangerous NPC's are.

 

[Flavio]

Scan for the answer when beta 2 comes out by trying it out.

I think that the npcs will be exploring as well just not as expertly as the players but from time to time you will see npcs in an unexplored system in the same way you may find players so it wont matter if the new system is found in solo or online play, it will appear in the station for sale once you return from your trip.

 

[Ian]

From what i understand, everything you do in 'Solo-Online' will have an effect in 'Online All' and visa versa. Whereas Solo Offline will be a static universe.

 

[lysan]

when you're down at that interesting planet, and find a ruin where there are signs of forgotten technology. You know that you need to be careful

 

[Gwyvern]

I don't think they have mentioned anything being different between solo and online, though i'm hoping they add incentives for online play like increased value of acquired goods, data, bounties, etc.

 

[Zenicetus]

Your also killing the pvp pirating aspect of the game. Them poor pirates will have nothing to chase at this rate.

Will a pirate want to be out on the frontier where explorers are pushing anyway? You won't be able to get there in a Viper, maybe not even an Anaconda. You'll have to be flying whatever the best explorer ships will be, just to get there. Maybe a Lakon6? Still want to be a pirate in that, or will you prefer the central systems where you can fly a Viper? And incidentally have a much higher chance of encountering other players (lots of stars out there, 'ya know).

Also, as I pointed out in the other thread, there is actually an incentive for all explorers to be in All Online, because you'll know if someone else is already there scanning (from the beacon) and you'll have the option of moving on, or taking them out, so you have the system to yourself. It's too early to draw conclusions for most of this. Let's wait and see how it works.

 

[Studders86]

Will a pirate want to be out on the frontier where explorers are pushing anyway?

Depends if there any rewards for this, there might be.

You won't be able to get there in a Viper, maybe not even an Anaconda. You'll have to be flying whatever the best explorer ships will be, just to get there. Maybe a Lakon6? Still want to be a pirate in that, or will you prefer the central systems where you can fly a Viper? And incidentally have a much higher chance of encountering other players (lots of stars out there, 'ya know).

Again, it depends where "there" is. I have known some PvP'ers go to the ends of the earth to just get a kill so i wouldnt put it past them lol!

I would rather have the risk that there might be rather than the definite no there isn't.

Also, as I pointed out in the other thread, there is actually an incentive for all explorers to be in All Online, because you'll know if someone else is already there scanning (from the beacon) and you'll have the option of moving on, or taking them out, so you have the system to yourself. It's too early to draw conclusions for most of this. Let's wait and see how it works.

Yep, thats why i think pvp is a good idea.

I feel like people think im arguing the case to either be a nuisance or that i want to be a PvP'er. I really dont, i just want the brutality of the game to be present like in DayZ or Eve. You cant have a game called Elite and make it easy lol.

 

[Ben Ryder]

With PvP being such a hot topic, how will the exploration aspect work when transferring from solo to online?

Lets say in solo i scan systems in relative safety - because there are no players to stop me - and i get back with the data. Will this mean the data is scanned on my local machine but not in online?

What if i scan a system, get the data, return to online and claim the reward? Therefore eliminating the risk or being attacked by other players.

What if i get to name that system too? Will it be named in the online universe or just my own?

Surely this has to be disabled in solo mode because i could scan lots of systems in solo, get the credits and switch to online?


Any ideas on how this is going to or could work?

Really good points!

I'm not convinced that transferring from solo to all group play is going to work out well going by what's been discussed so far. I don't think the two should cross over. I'd rather not have other players solo games influence my solo game.

If I'm exploring solo and you find the planet I'm hunting and name it before I do I would be really upset.

 

[Studders86]

Really good points!

I'm not convinced that transferring from solo to all group play is going to work out well going by what's been discussed so far. I don't think the two should cross over. I'd rather not have other players solo games influence my solo game.

If I'm exploring solo and you find the planet I'm hunting and name it before I do I would be really upset.

Yep, exactly! I would be pretty gutted too

 

[Zenicetus]

I'm not convinced that transferring from solo to all group play is going to work out well going by what's been discussed so far. I don't think the two should cross over. I'd rather not have other players solo games influence my solo game.

If I'm exploring solo and you find the planet I'm hunting and name it before I do I would be really upset.

Yep, that's something FD will have to figure out. I'm sure they have something planned, because we're supposed to be able to freely choose Solo/Private/All online and still have access to all professions including explorer, but we don't know what it is.

For example, they mentioned in the last newsletter that when a player starts surveying planets, that lights up a system-wide beacon so other players are aware of it. Say that player is in Solo Online mode. You enter that same system in Solo Online mode, and it might be that you see the beacon even though you're both in Solo mode. That would let you know you're not the first one there, and you'd have the option to move on and find another hyperdrive link to another star. Or I guess, try to complete the survey faster and race to turn it in? I dunno.

The part I can't figure out is that, if both players in this scenario are in All Online, they each would also have the option to attack the other player and grab the exploration rights for themselves (this is mentioned in the newsletter). If a player is surveying the system in Solo Online, they're protected from that action.

This would seem to advantage those in Solo Online mode unfairly... unless the balance is that they don't get to see that other person's beacon, so they run the risk of duplicated effort and not being first to name planets, turn in the chart data, etc.

It will be fascinating to see how they balance all this out. It will probably matter less after a few months because there will be stars enough for everyone. The initial rush is going to be fun though. It will be like the Oklahoma Land Rush in the Far and Away movie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxaJY8UZxn4

 

[Studders86]

Yep, that's something FD will have to figure out. I'm sure they have something planned, because we're supposed to be able to freely choose Solo/Private/All online and still have access to all professions including explorer, but we don't know what it is.

For example, they mentioned in the last newsletter that when a player starts surveying planets, that lights up a system-wide beacon so other players are aware of it. Say that player is in Solo Online mode. You enter that same system in Solo Online mode, and it might be that you see the beacon even though you're both in Solo mode. That would let you know you're not the first one there, and you'd have the option to move on and find another hyperdrive link to another star. Or I guess, try to complete the survey faster and race to turn it in? I dunno.

The part I can't figure out is that, if both players in this scenario are in All Online, they each would also have the option to attack the other player and grab the exploration rights for themselves (this is mentioned in the newsletter). If a player is surveying the system in Solo Online, they're protected from that action.

This would seem to advantage those in Solo Online mode unfairly... unless the balance is that they don't get to see that other person's beacon, so they run the risk of duplicated effort and not being first to name planets, turn in the chart data, etc.

It will be fascinating to see how they balance all this out. It will probably matter less after a few months because there will be stars enough for everyone. The initial rush is going to be fun though. It will be like the Oklahoma Land Rush in the Far and Away movie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxaJY8UZxn4

Yeah im looking forward to see what happens too, i havent seen gameplay like this before so its definitly going to be interesting. I suppose thee are more than enough systems to go around but its just that situation when one system is being scanned in online/solo.

Exciting stuff to look forward to though.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Will a pirate want to be out on the frontier where explorers are pushing anyway? You won't be able to get there in a Viper, maybe not even an Anaconda. You'll have to be flying whatever the best explorer ships will be, just to get there. Maybe a Lakon6? Still want to be a pirate in that, or will you prefer the central systems where you can fly a Viper? And incidentally have a much higher chance of encountering other players (lots of stars out there, 'ya know).

Well, actually yes. You'll get piles of PvP players out on the fringes if the only thing you find on the fringes is one or two ship types that are equipped less combat-efficiently than someone looking to do nothing but fight. They are almost guaranteed to have a slight advantage over everyone they find and will never face overwhelming odds. PvP is all about increasing your margin of success and narrowing the margin of success of your opponent, and the way exploration mechanics are set to work will allow them to capitalize on that with minimal effort. Their prey will do all of the work for them.

It's actually a perfect PvP environment.

 

[xDreadnoughtx]

Spend a few hours in the galaxy map.

Beyond the first few weeks, good luck with seeing any PC on your scopes when you hit the fringe systems (assuming starting systems are limited to what we can see as imperial, federal etc space). As time goes on PC explorer encounters will only get exponentially more rare.

I'm fully hoping that IF I choose to, I will be able to effectively go "solo" in the online all, by heading out. It will be a real hit to head back into known space after a long stint out. I'll enjoy the risk.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Spend a few hours in the galaxy map.

Beyond the first few weeks, good luck with seeing any PC on your scopes when you hit the fringe systems (assuming starting systems are limited to what we can see as imperial, federal etc space). As time goes on PC explorer encounters will only get exponentially more rare.

I'm fully hoping that IF I choose to, I will be able to effectively go "solo" in the online all, by heading out. It will be a real hit to head back into known space after a long stint out. I'll enjoy the risk.

There is this also, and these types of expeditions are what I'm looking forward to, but you've got to keep in mind PvP players can read the maps too. They'll just track the activity and follow the development of the map.

So, in a way, no matter what you do while exploring you're going to be leaving breadcrumbs for any adversarial player to track you down, whether it's to take your data, your route, or your dignity.

Any player looking to 100% avoid other players during their treks will have to either move fast or stop turning in data and leaving breadcrumbs.

 

[Studders86]

There is this also, and these types of expeditions are what I'm looking forward to, but you've got to keep in mind PvP players can read the maps too. They'll just track the activity and follow the development of the map.

So, in a way, no matter what you do while exploring you're going to be leaving breadcrumbs for any adversarial player to track you down, whether it's to take your data, your route, or your dignity.

Any player looking to 100% avoid other players during their treks will have to either move fast or stop turning in data and leaving breadcrumbs.

Exciting isn't it! I cant wait!

 

[Ian Phillips]

Each pilot has access, via their ships Navigation computer, to a starting galaxy map and can of course see all the stars in it. But just as now most of those will have no info about the systems. Everyone will have to either find their own way to a system they haven't been to before, or buy the nav information.

You won't be able to follow someone's explorations by watching the galaxy map - because it won't change for you until you buy the nav data.

 

[xDreadnoughtx]

Each pilot has access, via their ships Navigation computer, to a starting galaxy map and can of course see all the stars in it. But just as now most of those will have no info about the systems. Everyone will have to either find their own way to a system they haven't been to before, or buy the nav information.

You won't be able to follow someone's explorations by watching the galaxy map - because it won't change for you until you buy the nav data.

And he saw that it was good, but completely agree that it would be really interesting for parasites, sorry, I meant pirates , to follow explorer trends and directions.

I am a crap mathematician. Is there anyone who could check some calculations I have made due to this thread?

 

[Zenicetus]

There is this also, and these types of expeditions are what I'm looking forward to, but you've got to keep in mind PvP players can read the maps too. They'll just track the activity and follow the development of the map.

So, in a way, no matter what you do while exploring you're going to be leaving breadcrumbs for any adversarial player to track you down, whether it's to take your data, your route, or your dignity.

Any player looking to 100% avoid other players during their treks will have to either move fast or stop turning in data and leaving breadcrumbs.

Well, there will be jump limits between different ships affecting this also. PvP players whose entire interest is combat, will likely be flying combat-dedicated ships that don't have the range to reach the outer frontier where the explorers are. At least I think that's how Braben & Co. are setting this up.

Combat between competing explorers will surely happen, but it may be with ships that have deep compromises in weaponry to support all the stuff you need for exploring... big engines with huge jump range, the survey module, self-repair module since you'll be far from stations, a fuel scoop, and so on. Doesn't sound like a combat ship to me, although it will have some teeth for self-defense (and good 'ol frontier claim-jumping). That makes it easy prey for a full-up combat ship, but not if the combat ship can't get to where it is. It will be more of a risk on the way back to civilization to log the data.