Exploration ships

[Lupus Exmachina]

I completely agree with Konnivar, the exploration ships we have are completely fine.
The only Change I'd suggest would be to have an extra bridge under the nose of the anaconda, with those big panorama windows, dedicated for exploring.
You could just switch to this by using the lower panel.

Instead, what I'm really looking foward to are new mechanics which are coming this year.

 

[space voyager]

You know, it would be extremely fun if FD went out and created a perfect exploration ship with 5 size 1 internals. And 23,4LYs max range. Just to see the outcry...

What the hell is wrong with current ships? Is it really so bad if you put a size 1 module into size 3 slot that you wouldn't fill with size 3 module anyway?

 

[Chrystoph]

The problem is that you are wasting space in the ship that should be able to be repurposed. No sane Naval Architect puts dead space into a ship unless it serves a purpose.

By being restricted to 1 object in a space, regardless of how poorly it fits, you are making a less than optimal design. This is then aggravated by having spaces that cannot support all types of equipment, including Military/Passenger IC, Utility Slots and Hardpoints. Finally, adding in the fact that Core components are artificially restricted means that you never get a ship that actually makes sense.

The "game balance" argument also doesn't make sense because you cannot balance against factors that are not diametrically opposed. Combat v Exploration as a balancing standard??!

 

[Virandar]

I am sort of hoping that the Chieftain will have good enough jump range to make a nice exploration vessel, but we'll have to wait and see. If I can make it jump over 40Ly engineered without making it an empty shell, I will love it.
But yeah, it would be nice to have medium sized, relatively nimble ship with good visibility, great jump range, good internals and a possibility to fit SLF hangar. Something like the Python with good visibility, much better jump range and SLF option.

I currently have Anaconda with about 48Ly jump range (not totally stripped down) and I use it whenever I leave the bubble, but it is a big ship. A bit of an overkill for an exploration vessel. I also have DBX (jump range c.a. 50Ly, but internals are so and so and there's no SLF option. Also, sounds like a steam engine...) and AspX (jump range near 50Ly, good internals, but no SLF option and sounds like WW1 plane) and I'm not too keen on these. So much so that if I'm planning to go somewhere relatively near, I'd rather fly in my Python than AspX or DBX. despite it having much shorter jump range. I'd give up every other ship I have if that would allow me to get this Python's jump range somewhere over 40Ly (currently 33Ly, armed). Oh, and remove that nasty canopy bar in the upper left corner of my screen

Sure, you can explore in pretty much any vessel. The thing is... Some ships are much more fun to fly.

The idea with launching exploration, maybe not SLFs, but probes (more similar to limpets than SLFs) sounds nice.
I remember when I was starting playing Elite, I was hoping that someday exploration will become more... scientific than it is. So stuff like doing mining surveys, leaving behind drones surveying planets and gathering data on extraterrestrial life forms. Doing some xeno-archeology. Honking star systems on the way doesn't seem that much fun.

 

[Virandar]

I completely agree with Konnivar, the exploration ships we have are completely fine.

To me they are not. Listening to WW1 plane (AspX) or steam engine (DBX) for weeks does put me off using 2 of these ships for any longer journeys. That being said, I'm fine with ships having their own imperfections. And I also look forward to new exploration mechanics.

 

[Andrej]

ED exploration already in "easy mode" but some players want it to be even easier?

Rules of Acquisition number 10: Greed is eternal.

 

[Virandar]

Again, I must caution against this. Even the average non-engineered Asp can break 20 LY in a single jump, while others have posted their jump ranges of over 50--FIFTY--light years; just how fast are you planning on jumping from one end of the ENTIRE GALAXY to the other? Is that your only goal in ED? Do you WANT to be completely bored with this game in a Week? Asking for more speed, longer jumps and the like only shrinks the game...which sells itself primarily on the vastness of space, mind you! Asking for more jump range, especially without some considerable risks attached, is doing yourself a disservice and admitting that you're not actually having fun playing the game. I know this because I've seen the pattern thousands of times in hundreds of games. Huge open world takes time to explore, players whine for faster travel, then they can pop over from one end to the next, then they're bored the next day. It's a vicious cycle and this is where it starts.

I do agree with two of your bullet points though; the detailed surface scanner should never have existed and the limpet controller should have been able to perform more than one function --based on it's size and grade-- but the controller or bays probably shouldn't come with cargo. If a carried vehicle has it's own cargo space, that's okay, so long as it automatically transfers to your hold on docking --OR-- stays put if your hold is full (it shouldn't just be impossible to carry what you've already picked up, IMHO.)

Ah, but how about being able to travel quicker to places we've been to before? I remember playing one Sci-Fi multiplayer game where you had to get to certain spots to enable fast travel to them. And even then, there were vast distances between those spots, with points of interests sometimes being located quite far away from the fast travel locations. You could shorten the distances (teleport to coordinates), but at a cost of spending some resources. Though I don't think Elite will ever have anything like jump gates.

As for increasing the jump range... I'd be generally in favour of it. I can do nearly 50Ly in my Conda, especially if I get rid of the weapons (which I don't like doing, but that's just me). I use it any time when I want to go somewhere further than 500Ly. With this type of jump range crossing the entire Milky Way from edge to edge would be around 2000 jumps. If it was 1500 jumps instead, would it destroy balance of the game? In my opinion, no. Because not that many players are interested in doing even 500 jumps. You wouldn't suddenly have every other player circumnavigating the Milky Way. I think the only effect would be positive: more players being interested in visiting areas relatively close to the bubble.
I would also welcome shrinking the bubble by increasing jump ranges within the bubble only (more complete data, better star charts making jumps easier to calculate). This wouldn't affect long range exploration, but would speed up the pace for most non-explorers.

 

[Daynen]

Ah, but how about being able to travel quicker to places we've been to before? I remember playing one Sci-Fi multiplayer game where you had to get to certain spots to enable fast travel to them. And even then, there were vast distances between those spots, with points of interests sometimes being located quite far away from the fast travel locations. You could shorten the distances (teleport to coordinates), but at a cost of spending some resources. Though I don't think Elite will ever have anything like jump gates.

As for increasing the jump range... I'd be generally in favour of it. I can do nearly 50Ly in my Conda, especially if I get rid of the weapons (which I don't like doing, but that's just me). I use it any time when I want to go somewhere further than 500Ly. With this type of jump range crossing the entire Milky Way from edge to edge would be around 2000 jumps. If it was 1500 jumps instead, would it destroy balance of the game? In my opinion, no. Because not that many players are interested in doing even 500 jumps. You wouldn't suddenly have every other player circumnavigating the Milky Way. I think the only effect would be positive: more players being interested in visiting areas relatively close to the bubble.
I would also welcome shrinking the bubble by increasing jump ranges within the bubble only (more complete data, better star charts making jumps easier to calculate). This wouldn't affect long range exploration, but would speed up the pace for most non-explorers.

NOW we're getting somewhere more specific. Circumstantial jump ranges are definitely something worth investigating. I still say they need to come with considerable risks, costs and/or limits because of how powerful and important jump range is. The knowledge of more complete data on fully scanned systems shouldn't just increase our range though; instead I would enjoy the ability to hyperspace to any sufficiently large celestial body in the system rather than being stuck jumping to the main star all the time. This doesn't shrink the galaxy nearly as much as a global range increase but it gives us some slightly finer control over our travel.

What makes "exploration" so limiting and linear is that there's never any change in any system you've been to before. Once you've scanned a system one time, that's it. You're completely done with it. It's more like we're scouting systems instead of actually exploring them. No celestial events, no changes, no meteor showers, no comets, no drastic changes in a planet's atmosphere that need investigating, no nothing. It's just a binary switch--have planet data? Y/N--that you flip when you stare at something for several seconds. Once THAT fact changes, THEN we can talk about more dedicated "exploration" ships and jump ranges.

 

[Zeeman]

...With an aspX, at least two modules get left behind ...

Which two?

Asp X doesn't really need an SLF, as it's fast/nimble enough on it's own. Otherwise, what else am I missing?

Z...

 

[Virandar]

NOW we're getting somewhere more specific. Circumstantial jump ranges are definitely something worth investigating. I still say they need to come with considerable risks, costs and/or limits because of how powerful and important jump range is. The knowledge of more complete data on fully scanned systems shouldn't just increase our range though; instead I would enjoy the ability to hyperspace to any sufficiently large celestial body in the system rather than being stuck jumping to the main star all the time. This doesn't shrink the galaxy nearly as much as a global range increase but it gives us some slightly finer control over our travel.

What makes "exploration" so limiting and linear is that there's never any change in any system you've been to before. Once you've scanned a system one time, that's it. You're completely done with it. It's more like we're scouting systems instead of actually exploring them. No celestial events, no changes, no meteor showers, no comets, no drastic changes in a planet's atmosphere that need investigating, no nothing. It's just a binary switch--have planet data? Y/N--that you flip when you stare at something for several seconds. Once THAT fact changes, THEN we can talk about more dedicated "exploration" ships and jump ranges.

Well, you're talking about stuff I would very much like to see (more content and summary jumps). Although the fact that Elite needs this sort of stuff doesn't prevent FD from making new ships. I guess we'll have to wait and see what they do with exploration improvements they were mentioning recently.