Explorers; does this bother you?

This is why I stopped exploring as it felt like someone else had already been there.
Historically, much exploration went to places where people have already been though. Columbus did not really "discover" an empty and pristine American continent.

I think what the game is missing out on is history, really. We should be finding wrecks of ancient space ships (Asp II, Cobra I, etc), remains of human settlements looking as old as Guardian Ruins.

That's a lot of new assets though. But they would add the missing 4th dimension to the game.

:D S
 
The real point though is the one I already made earlier and seemed to be completely ignored by OP; there's nothing odd about crash sites in 'undiscovered' systems because by definition 'discovery' in Elite does not require merely finding something - it requires returning and handing in the scans. Which is objectively difficult if your ship is a smouldering ruin on some dustball 1,000LY from home, hence why we have crash sites on undiscovered planets.
Which was fine, until FD broke that model with First Footfalls. These are recorded and transmitted instantly, but apparently not one of the unfortunate victims of these thousands of spacecraft pancaking incidents or SRV crashes managed deliberately or accidentally to stick a boot onto the surface of any world. Not a single one. Which seems statistically incredible. Unless...

Codex Discoveries and First Footfalls: Small amounts of data that travel well over the Galnet (which is automagically available Galaxy wide) that consist of planet name and abbreviated genus/species/geology info. Transmitted instantly over Galnet and registered everywhere that has access to Galnet!
...this same system also instantly notifies and registers deaths, and erases the First Footfall record. Except that doesn't work either, because if my CMDR dies his are still recorded. Which means CMDRs are somehow "special", which does fit in with lore, but if CMDRs are special it means that First Footfalls are at best misleadingly named.

At some point you have to accept that there's no way to headcanon all of this without at least part of it breaking. Which part or parts, and to what degree, are subjective. And to be honest, given a choice between getting First Footfall on a planet already strewn with human debris and escape pods, or not getting First Footfall because a randomly spawned NPC had beaten me to it, I'll take option 1 please. Can you imagine the salt if it was option 2?

But it does serve as a prime example of FD implementing combinations of features without really thinking through their implications. Or, if they did think them through, deciding they didn't matter. Thankfully it all stops being a problem after a few more jumps away from the bubble.
 
Which was fine, until FD broke that model with First Footfalls. These are recorded and transmitted instantly, but apparently not one of the unfortunate victims of these thousands of spacecraft pancaking incidents or SRV crashes managed deliberately or accidentally to stick a boot onto the surface of any world. Not a single one. Which seems statistically incredible. Unless...


...this same system also instantly notifies and registers deaths, and erases the First Footfall record. Except that doesn't work either, because if my CMDR dies his are still recorded. Which means CMDRs are somehow "special", which does fit in with lore, but if CMDRs are special it means that First Footfalls are at best misleadingly named.

At some point you have to accept that there's no way to headcanon all of this without at least part of it breaking. Which part or parts, and to what degree, are subjective. And to be honest, given a choice between getting First Footfall on a planet already strewn with human debris and escape pods, or not getting First Footfall because a randomly spawned NPC had beaten me to it, I'll take option 1 please. Can you imagine the salt if it was option 2?

But it does serve as a prime example of FD implementing combinations of features without really thinking through their implications. Or, if they did think them through, deciding they didn't matter. Thankfully it all stops being a problem after a few more jumps away from the bubble.
To be honest I don't even try to headcanon it - I just take the rules as they're presented and accept that I'm playing a computer game. Sure an entirely coherent internal logic would be a nice thing to have, but I don't let it detract from what enjoyment I can find in the game as presented to us.
 
Well if that head-canon gives you a headache... don't even think about the rescue rangers that can travel anywhere in the Galaxy to pick up the remains of your cold, dead body and resurrect you on your ship before you can blink...
 
At some point you have to accept that there's no way to headcanon all of this without at least part of it breaking. Which part or parts, and to what degree, are subjective. And to be honest, given a choice between getting First Footfall on a planet already strewn with human debris and escape pods, or not getting First Footfall because a randomly spawned NPC had beaten me to it, I'll take option 1 please. Can you imagine the salt if it was option 2?
I washed the 'wonder why' away by considering the advanced planetary approach computer as the 'advance' that permitted first footfalls to be recorded (it never existed before atmo landings) so those wrecks were unfortunates who just didn't have the right kit on board at the time of landing.

Works for me ;)
 
To be honest I don't even try to headcanon it - I just take the rules as they're presented and accept that I'm playing a computer game.
For me the problem with ED is that it does such a good job of presenting its world though visuals and audio that the dissonance between that experience and the pragmatism of dealing with poorly thought-out mechanics can be enormous.

Perhaps paradoxically, sometimes that gap is so great that it actually makes it easier to "mode switch". For instance I never had a problem dealing with the whole "death mechanic" thing. While other players went full Altered Carbon or Dark Matter and argued endlessly about clones and holograms and digital consciousness storage, for me it was as straightforward as "a character in a game world is dead... now it's me the player choosing the restart options... and now the character is back in the game world." It was never more complicated than that (although see below).

But the other, more subtle contradictions, are harder to reconcile. I guess what it boils down to is that I don't want to be reminded that I'm playing a videogame, but the videogame insists on reminding me. Sometimes the trade-off is worth it e.g. character design and human-scale interior spaces are inevitably not nearly as convincing as the space stuff, but the extra gameplay offered by Odyssey more than compensates for that in my experience. But where the game really shines in its ability to immerse me has always been in the realm of exploration. Odyssey has in many ways made that even better -- on-foot exploration feels amazingly otherworldly -- but then it also brought along the human artefact / First Footfall problem in systems nearer to the bubble. It doesn't ruin the experience, but it does lower the immersion-to-dissonance ratio.

Well if that head-canon gives you a headache... don't even think about the rescue rangers that can travel anywhere in the Galaxy to pick up the remains of your cold, dead body and resurrect you on your ship before you can blink...
And talking of the "death mechanic", there's another prime example of FD muddying the waters with unnecessary detail. Players were happy (if that's the right word!) to argue among themselves about how to interpret death in the game, and while no consensus was ever going to form I think most people were content with their own interpretation. If anything the addition of FPS-like elements held the potential to defuse this a bit, because players of other FPS games are used to the idea of a "respawn" that has no real-world/in-universe analogue and are more than happy to accept it as a practical mechanic.

But then along comes FD with their flavour text updates and suddenly there's the implication of a whole in-universe organisation whose job it is to facilitate "respawns." No attempt at a universal explanation (obviously there isn't one) just "Here's more conflicting or confusing information; deal with it."

Sometimes I think they just enjoy trolling us.
 
I decided to take a trip out into the black to get away from the weapon/suit grind. It's been hit or miss when it comes to the actual exploration itself, but something I've noticed that really bugs me is I'll be in a system that no one has ever been to, and there are minor wrecks/distress signals on planet surfaces. It really destroys my motivation to log in and continue exploring. I just wanted to know if that bothered anyone else enough to not go exploring?
No? If an NPC was there and crashed on a planet, they never got to chance to go back to Universal Cartographic and report the discovery.
 
Which was fine, until FD broke that model with First Footfalls. These are recorded and transmitted instantly, but apparently not one of the unfortunate victims of these thousands of spacecraft pancaking incidents or SRV crashes managed deliberately or accidentally to stick a boot onto the surface of any world. Not a single one. Which seems statistically incredible. Unless...


...this same system also instantly notifies and registers deaths, and erases the First Footfall record. Except that doesn't work either, because if my CMDR dies his are still recorded. Which means CMDRs are somehow "special", which does fit in with lore, but if CMDRs are special it means that First Footfalls are at best misleadingly named.

At some point you have to accept that there's no way to headcanon all of this without at least part of it breaking. Which part or parts, and to what degree, are subjective. And to be honest, given a choice between getting First Footfall on a planet already strewn with human debris and escape pods, or not getting First Footfall because a randomly spawned NPC had beaten me to it, I'll take option 1 please. Can you imagine the salt if it was option 2?

But it does serve as a prime example of FD implementing combinations of features without really thinking through their implications. Or, if they did think them through, deciding they didn't matter. Thankfully it all stops being a problem after a few more jumps away from the bubble.
We’re Pilots Federation members, looking at data provided to us by the Pilots Federation, based on data provided to the Pilots Federation by Pilots Federation members.

That pretty much allows reconciliation of most things - because most NPCs aren’t Pilots Federation members.
 
We’re Pilots Federation members, looking at data provided to us by the Pilots Federation, based on data provided to the Pilots Federation by Pilots Federation members.

That pretty much allows reconciliation of most things - because most NPCs aren’t Pilots Federation members.
That's why I said "does fit in with lore", but like a circle in a spiral we're right back to First Footfall not meaning "first footfall" at all but something closer to "first footfall apart from the various random non-PF guys who got here first and left all these things lying about all over the place."

That might not matter to some players as much as it does to others; some won't care at all and for others maybe just beating other players to the punch is enough. But FD are the ones who evoked the "Armstrong moment" in promoting Odyssey and I'm willing to bet Armstrong's moment would have a very different historical resonance had his "One small step" speech been interrupted by Collins broadcasting that he'd just seen half a dozen LK descent stages littering the lunar surface. That would change the whole scenario, regardless of the fate of any cosmonauts.

Maybe if FD had called it "First Officially Recorded Surface EVA" or something it wouldn't be as much of a problem, but they didn't. They wanted a punchier description and they evoked Armstrong, for whom "first footfall" had and will always have an absolutely unambiguous meaning (unless someone finds those LKs, of course).

But they also wanted, indeed already had, random structures and crash sites all over the landable planets.

There are perfectly legitimate reasons for wanting both of those things, but it's simply not possible to reconcile them in a way that doesn't bring into question the believability of one, or the fundamental meaning of the other. Either the galaxy is littered with stuff built by humans who got as far as landing their ships and deploying thousands of SRVs onto planetary surfaces (before crashing a great number of them) but, in an affront to probability, never once managed to stick so much a single foot outside the cockpit. Or the much vaunted First Footfall is less of an Armstrong moment and more of a Schmitt show.

Personally I'm not happy with either of those, but I prefer to keep the romance of the Armstrong thing*, which is why I'm doing the retcon equivalent of sticking my fingers in my ears and going "la-la-la-la" every time I see signs of obvious human surface activity on a world that's supposed to be untouched by human spacefeet. Obviously other mileages are available.

*As has been pointed out a few times, 2000ly is a relative stroll down the street in ED so there is an argument
that all "local" planets should be teeming with human activity by this point anyway. But taking that to its logical
conclusion, with ships engineered to cross the galaxy in less than seven hours, the better part of the entire
Milky Way should be swarming with research stations, mining outposts and all manner of human activity. And
certainly further out than 2000-3000ly. Bagging a legitimate First Footfall should really be quite challenging,
especially in main sequence and other interesting systems. But this is a game which appeals to a broad range
of player types, and it would be unfair to squeeze exploration-focused players into the margins. Which makes it
all the more surprising that one of the two main quantifiable bones thrown to explorers in Odyssey -- the other
being exobiology -- has for some been undermined to a limited degree by another pre-existing mechanic.
 
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I decided to take a trip out into the black to get away from the weapon/suit grind. It's been hit or miss when it comes to the actual exploration itself, but something I've noticed that really bugs me is I'll be in a system that no one has ever been to, and there are minor wrecks/distress signals on planet surfaces. It really destroys my motivation to log in and continue exploring. I just wanted to know if that bothered anyone else enough to not go exploring?
Yep, seen that more times than I was enthused by.
I was about 4k outside the bubble. (I usually mine about 500Ly outside the bubble, no pirates, nothing) and then I see emergency signals, wreckage, crashed satellites and other signals on otherwise uninhabited planets.
We are out in the void, No one has been here before. And there is not just ONE signal, there are 5 signals of various origins.
I mean, ONE I could deal with. Once a blue moon. But then I jump to the next system and there is more of it. Next system is well filled with signals too. So it's not THAT undiscovered.
 
Every planet? Ohh thats bad.. not even a gradient of POIs
I'm about 1300 LY below the bubble at the moment and the pattern is pretty simple: 5 PoIs per landable, a mix of minor wreckage and distress beacons. The minor wreckage almost always have 2 skimmers guarding an "intact cargo rack" with chemical element materials in it. There's sometimes an escape pod or two as well.

And there's a bunch of cargo cannisters. These are usually narcotics or personal weapons. So the smugglers get around a lot, probably don't want to have their locations registered, and 1000 - 500 LY isn't that far to go really. They also aren't members of the PF, or they would be doing passenger runs, massacre mission stacking or mining in order to make money.

:D S
 
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