Explorers - Should they lose their data upon ship destruction?

[Skuli]

I kinda like the idea of having a black box that stays in the system where you exploded. You could choose to go back and get it or even bargain for someone else to retrieve it on the way back. I really like the idea of stumbling across another explorer's data in a WSS in some random system, then trying to track them down to return it. Or possibly listen to the devil on the other shoulder and sell it.

Of course this also sets it up for piracy, which I don't think is necessarily a bad thing. If you're coming back with 50+ million of exploration data, you might want to wing up with some people you trust. That seems like something a station would pay 5% bonus for, as that data could be more valuable than a normal trade commodity. If only it wasn't such a pain to sell...

I voted for "leave it as it stands" but I wouldn't be too upset about an option to drop your exploration data/bounties/etc. in an electronic format that gradually decayed.

 

[Kaeldian]

I'm personally of the opinion that it's fine as it is. I'm surprised to find that the community's split on it is pretty even though.

I can only personally support the black box idea if it can be looted and sold for the full value. Off course this means that random shooting of players can yield profit though which justifies homicidal behavior. So be careful what you wish for......

 

[Allitnil]

Of course this also sets it up for piracy, which I don't think is necessarily a bad thing. If you're coming back with 50+ million of exploration data, you might want to wing up with some people you trust. That seems like something a station would pay 5% bonus for, as that data could be more valuable than a normal trade commodity. If only it wasn't such a pain to sell...

Explorers are by nature solitary. We've played the game alone for weeks or months. The few individuals we might trust are likely to be thousands of light years away. So exactly where are we going to find people to trust enough to wing up with? I can think of maybe 3 or 4 people who play ED that I would trust and the chances of actually getting any of them to escort me home is so small as to not be worth considering. Ultimately, any game mechanism that effectively requires teaming up with others means that I'll have stopped playing anyway. I suspect the same would apply to many explorers; if we wanted cooperative play then we wouldn't have chosen to explore in the first place!

 

[Lord_Crazy]

You kind of screwed up your poll.

The thread title asks one question, and the poll itself asks the completely opposite question.

I wonder how many people clicked to the poll and immediately answered "No" to the question "Should explorers lose their data when they die?", rather than actually reading the poll question...

I didn't notice, my bad. On the other hand I trust people to read. I mean it's a forum people are supposed to read, especially to answer a poll But you are right.

 

[Lord_Crazy]

I'm personally of the opinion that it's fine as it is. I'm surprised to find that the community's split on it is pretty even though.

I can only personally support the black box idea if it can be looted and sold for the full value. Off course this means that random shooting of players can yield profit though which justifies homicidal behavior. So be careful what you wish for......

Well I am happy with the current system but I think it could still be improved. The black box thing is interesting as it treats data (exploring data but any other data would be fine for that matter) as a commodity, like any other cargo.

I didn't really know what to expect from the poll but I am rather surprised at one of the big reason why some voted "no": players tend to say that exploring is generally safer than other activities, and that a black box system would make the activity too safe. I cannot agree with that: 1) first of all a black box means data are preserved but they are still out there and players would have to pick them up. 2) A black box would make data subject to being stolen, which means explorers could become a very profitable target for pirates. How is it safer?

Finally I am not disappointed in the poll, it is here to get people's opinion. I am a bit more disappointed though about the rational of some answers. I hope people will keep answering but also try to measure the actual impact of the different systems on piracy and subsequent safety (or lack thereof).

 

[CrispyLeper]

My opinion is here along with some additional ideas regarding the black box theory:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=136969&p=2099541#post2099541

 

[CdrTwisted]

I rather like the idea of adding complexity by creating a black box flight data recorder.

But like many people have said, canisters degrade quickly in a vacuum (for some reason) and we have no way of navigating to specific co-ordinates on space (although it could appear in a USS). So there are other parts of the game which would need to change to accommodate this. Not that I'm against longer-lasting canisters and an end to USSs.

One idea - if black boxes were to be piratable, I'd like them to be only available by using cargo harch breakers. You shouldn't be able to jettison them and pirates couldn't scoop them from wreckage. Since they would potentially be vastly more valuable than any other cargo, they should also be hard to get.

 

[Zulu Romeo]

We never had black boxes back in my day. Mind you, we never had route planners either.

 

[Valethar]

Dangerous - Involving possible injury, harm, or death. Characterized by danger. Able or likely to cause injury, pain, harm, etc.


Carebear: Wanting Devs to develop/change games to make the gaming experience easy, safe, and cozy. No risk, no challenge, no realism. Cozy like a carebear.

 

[Lord_Crazy]

Dangerous - Involving possible injury, harm, or death. Characterized by danger. Able or likely to cause injury, pain, harm, etc.


Carebear: Wanting Devs to develop/change games to make the gaming experience easy, safe, and cozy. No risk, no challenge, no realism. Cozy like a carebear.

Well black box qualifies as dangerous then: you have to get back to a crash site, which might involve and 20,000ly trip, it's not some sort of magic backup coming with your new ship. Also, your data can be stolen which means you become a target for pirates. I still don't see how people can miss that point.

 

[Anachronda]

I was talking about carrying the data in your escape pod as people suggested in the other thread.

I don't know what the science is of a black box surviving the explosion of a spaceship in 3300. I'm waiting for the Mythbusters episode where they test this. Until then I see no difference in gameyness in having a black box surviving the explosion, surviving staying out in space for enough time for it to be retrieved, or it being blown to smithereens along with the rest of the craft.

It would survive because it was ejected before the explosion like the escape pod is. Kind of like the information buoys that are ejected in Star Trek. The science is just as sound as a pilot surviving an exploding jet because they were ejected from it before it exploded.
Really though the amount of data most people would have would easily fit on a personal pen drive NOW, in 2015. It's actually more gamey that people lose the data. It's even more gamey that people can't just transmit their findings. And I don't see what your problem is with escape pods, anyway. An escape pod would be picked up by the next pilot and brought to the station. Granted, in the first game people found in escape pods were often enslaved by unscrupulous pilots instead of being returned safe and sound, but dealing with that possibility for players would be a headache. As long as humans have had vessels, there has been an idea that if I see you shipwrecked I help you get back because I am hoping you will do the same for me if my ship gets destroyed. And hey, you do have pilot's insurance, maybe it comes with something like AAA in the form of pod retrieval.

 

[Anachronda]

What gives you the impression that it's only a little data? My impression is that we're bringing back highly detailed surface and sub-surface scans suitable for planetary mapping and mineral deposit surveys. It isn't something you can just put in your pocket.

That would be only if you had the detailed surface scanner. The regular scan only gives very basic information about the planet, about what you could find with a telescope from many light years away. Size and distance of planets, type of star, etc. But even given your geological survey scenario, yes, even today you could fit an awful lot of survey data in your pocket. Maps and all.

 

[AsukaZ]

I vote for leave it as it is.

Coming back through occupied space is definitely a white-knuckle ride, and the relief when you dock is almost palpable.
Take the risk away and you take away a large chunk of the intensity of gameplay, the experience will be less for that IMO.

 

[Arindor]

Military powers (et al.) are always looking for pilots to go search for lost military plans (data, etc.), and they are often found among debris after a ship has exploded. So the argument that you should lose everything upon ship destruction fails to take that into consideration. Also, if FD eventually allow personal beacons to be dropped in systems (to pin-point a dropped stash), so they can be collected by the owner at a later time (or found by others), then why not black box data? Either way, you would have thought that it would make perfect sense for a black-box system to be in place by now (or at least in the pipeline).