Expose more info about solo/pg player actions in station info

[Rubbernuke]

This is exactly what you said. Which is a deviation from what the OP said.

A downloadable detailed log on other player's activity? Yes, that would bring out the weirdo's that want to harass others for "trespassing in their territory" etc. Its an awful idea.

How is that forcing people from solo into open? How can people in Open 'harass' people in solo? The answer is they can't, bar doing in game activity just in a way where they know what that other person is doing. Do also remember this means PMFs and groups will know and be able to respond to this as well.

This log is who is in a system at a certain time, where they land, what they fly etc. All of this is regards in game activity the player is doing- so please tell me how is it harassment doing in game things in response to other players doing in game things?

 

[Darrack]

Its more about who is where, numbers, affiliation etc plus exposing what they carry what they did during their time in the system (such as landing on what body, station etc)- so an extention of things that NPCs and players can scan for during play. Powerplay does this well enough but having better traffic info and having the two systems unified would be fantastic, at least IMO.

This smacks of 'Big Brother' to me.
But realistically if im smuggling or covertly going about my PP business why should others be able to see where i am or what im doing?

O7

 

[varonica]

This is exactly what you said. Which is a deviation from what the OP said.

A downloadable detailed log on other player's activity? Yes, that would bring out the weirdo's that want to harass others for "trespassing in their territory" etc. Its an awful idea.

As well as being silly, there I am 110,000 ls from you delivering my cargo, and you want the game to tell you in real time exactly where I am? Yes I know we tend to ignore the speed of light limitations of some things, but there's a reason why we have a lot of courier missions available, because a ship is the fastest way to get data around the system and galaxy.

 

[Disemboweled Ego]

Well, i'd drop the open only angle and present it as a request for more in-game information for all.

The idea is still flawed, as the information as requested is pretty useless except as a general indication of volume/effort, not of actual impact, but at least it would lose the open/solo debate angle which just drags the entire suggestion down into the mud.

That's a sensible suggestion, but then the thread would get 0 replies and ~170 views like my other suggestions. Look forward to my other suggestion threads like "NPC Chaff should be 5% effective less in open only" and "The oppressor could be slightly more powerful, but in open only" and "You should be able to equip more than 4 experimental weapons in open only" in the future.

But on a serious note I'm also committed to the open/solo aspect of it because I think it's a better solution to it than the other, more knee jerk ones (open-only bgs or a bgs penalty for solo players and other crazy ideas) and I want to see what the arguments are against the softest, least tangible version of it that I can come up with.

You have a source for that claim? Last I heard Open was significantly the more popular mode.

Nope, it didn't seem strongly relevant unless open is indeed significantly more popular and would be interesting to have some reliable data on that.

This log is who is in a system at a certain time, where they land, what they fly etc. All of this is regards in game activity the player is doing- so please tell me how is it harassment doing in game things in response to other players doing in game things?

There's thousands of weirdos at the edges of the bubble just waiting for it, ready to come down on the bubble as soon as the data is published. Weirdos gonna weirdo regardless I think. Leaving traces of your actions isn't as disempowering as it's presented as, but people do behave differently when feeling watched and it can be an uncomfortable feeling that cuts into the escapism. Overall I think this could come down to minute presentation details which are difficult to get just right.

 

[Rubbernuke]

This smacks of 'Big Brother' to me.
But realistically if im smuggling or covertly going about my PP business why should others be able to see where i am or what im doing?

O7

Like I said too this would be tied to ships / stations / others canning you- so if a passing vessel sights you, then you generate a sighting.

This could be modified using BGS gov types like anarchy who won't bother with any of it (so its like a blackspot, giving more of a reason to be there) or that compromised navs don't generate logs either.

 

[Greasetrap42]

How is that forcing people from solo into open? How can people in Open 'harass' people in solo? The answer is they can't, bar doing in game activity just in a way where they know what that other person is doing. Do also remember this means PMFs and groups will know and be able to respond to this as well.

Have another coffee, put on your thinking cap and read what I posted. Try to understand what would happen to the recipients of your suggestion.

You could even make gameplay out of it-

This might sound like fun to you, but when you get a bunch of weirdos using the data it suddenly isn't much fun for other players. -> driving them away from open, plaing weirdos on ignore lists, or leaving the game cause they can't be bothered.

 

[Rubbernuke]

There's thousands of weirdos at the edges of the bubble just waiting for it, ready to come down on the bubble as soon as the data is published. Weirdos gonna weirdo regardless I think. Leaving traces of your actions isn't as disempowering as it's presented as, but people do behave differently when feeling watched and it can be an uncomfortable feeling that cuts into the escapism. Overall I think this could come down to minute presentation details which are difficult to get just right.

And as I keep pointing out, players would have ways to avoid going on these logs- not to mention an explorer would have to shout ahead of time where they are going, since if they were dumping data all in one go the first sighting would be after they land. Now, if they were using the data for the BGS and they went to several places, then its game on really since they are using said data against others.

 

[Darrack]

others canning you

Saucy

O7

 

[Disemboweled Ego]

And as I keep pointing out, players would have ways to avoid going on these logs- not to mention an explorer would have to shout ahead of time where they are going, since if they were dumping data all in one go the first sighting would be after they land. Now, if they were using the data for the BGS and they went to several places, then its game on really since they are using said data against others.

Are there examples of (multiplayer) games that do anything similar to this sort of tracking gameplay in a satisfying way?

 

[Rubbernuke]

Have another coffee, put on your thinking cap and read what I posted. Try to understand what would happen to the recipients of your suggestion.

I'm struggling to really see your point. Knowing what people do means people in game know where others might be and what they do- not unlike Powerplay. And this does not even take into account people in solo being harassed by people in other modes doing BGS attacks back.

This might sound like fun to you, but when you get a bunch of weirdos using the data it suddenly isn't much fun for other players. -> driving them away from open, plaing weirdos on ignore lists, or leaving the game cause they can't be bothered.

Nothing would change, because the people you are afraid of will keep on hanging around places to gank because its easier. Not to mention this is per system (and does not track whatever you do)- its just an extension of what already exists.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Are there examples of (multiplayer) games that do anything similar to this sort of tracking gameplay in a satisfying way?

Dunno. All I want to see is more local information on who is there in other modes, and bring in some Powerplay like stuff as well. That way when BGS wars and PMF beef kicks off you know who is where and what you face. I'm not wanting to suggest some pan bubble tracking that you can't evade, it would be per system, and subject to the BGS state /gov and have mechanics like stealth allow evasion.

 

[Greasetrap42]

Nothing would change, because the people you are afraid of will keep on hanging around places to gank because its easier. Not to mention this is per system (and does not track whatever you do)- its just an extension of what already exists.

I'm glad you have the general agreement from all the weirdos that detailed tracking data on other players activities and locations won't get abused.

This makes me much more comfortable.


Edit: From Rubbernuke:

Its why I'd love a detailed log you could download (or have available via a KWS) where you can see who is where at a given moment in time.

 

[Darrack]

Dunno. All I want to see is more local information on who is there in other modes, and bring in some Powerplay like stuff as well. That way when BGS wars and PMF beef kicks off you know who is where and what you face. I'm not wanting to suggest some pan bubble tracking that you can't evade, it would be per system, and subject to the BGS state /gov and have mechanics like stealth allow evasion.

I would be happy with in system information, info on what has been carried or smuggled etc would defo be a help in PP but not being able to track a ship once its left the system - for me that's a step too far.
Can we have an option to bribe the unloading workers to keep their gobs shut?

O7

 

[Rubbernuke]

I'm glad you have the general agreement from all the weirdos that detailed tracking data on other players activities and locations won't get abused.

This makes me much more comfortable.

If you don't like it (in the hypothetical idea) then don't get scanned and be mindful of who sees you- just like in Powerplay where people know exactly where you will be going or is that weird too?

 

[Rubbernuke]

I would be happy with in system information, info on what has been carried or smuggled etc would defo be a help in PP but not being able to track a ship once its left the system - for me that's a step too far.
Can we have an option to bribe the unloading workers to keep their gobs shut?

O7

I did think of some sort of limpet that had a short duration, but thought that would be too much. In the end its just making NPC / Nav / station scans count for more and that the extra info allows greater insight for large scale BGS play. The player / groups still have to parse the data from Navs (and frankly would be fun with Nav point PP UM sweeps) so its not instant gratification.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Dunno. All I want to see is more local information on who is there in other modes, and bring in some Powerplay like stuff as well. That way when BGS wars and PMF beef kicks off you know who is where and what you face. I'm not wanting to suggest some pan bubble tracking that you can't evade, it would be per system, and subject to the BGS state /gov and have mechanics like stealth allow evasion.

That information is useless. It doesn't change anything and knowing whether something is done in open or not doesn't help you in any way. What helps is knowing which activities took place.

 

[Rubbernuke]

That information is useless. It doesn't change anything and knowing whether something is done in open or not doesn't help you in any way. What helps is knowing which activities took place.

Knowing who is where, what squadron they are with, where they land, what cargo they had is useful with something generic like "landed at Outpost X, undertook transactions with factions x y and z" . Hell, just having an accurate system traffic report with corresponding pilots would be a step up.

 

[TobiasFuzz]

I don't want to repeat my previous post...

When you want/need more data or Information to work on the BGS then simply leave it to someone who knows how to use the allready existing tools. They are more then suitable.

 

[Robert Maynard]

This is amusing since you argue for multi mode but argue against more information across modes that would make the game more equal for everyone.

It's equal for everyone at the moment - and each player (who can play in multi-player game modes that is) can choose whichever game mode suits their mood for each game session.

Its more about who is where, numbers, affiliation etc plus exposing what they carry what they did during their time in the system (such as landing on what body, station etc)- so an extention of things that NPCs and players can scan for during play. Powerplay does this well enough but having better traffic info and having the two systems unified would be fantastic, at least IMO.

As I very much doubt that the frequency of aggregation / publication of information relating to the BGS would increase, even in the event of some increase in the level of detail offered, I'm not seeing that the extra detail would actually make much difference - as those tracking BGS changes should have a good idea of what it takes to affect Faction influence and therefore the amount of BGS effort players have been engaged in in any particular system.

I very, very, much doubt that the "who" would be published either, nor should it as it would inevitably lead to cases of game related harassment of players both in and out of game.

It would- and then things become more pro-active based on better information and less guesswork. Its like - OK I lost day 2 of the war, should I continue? Who (and how many) are in system? Right now its a case of mindlessly grinding in ignorance and hoping you do more next time. Even closing loopholes via Apex or FCs would be useful.

Working out what's happened is arguably part of the game - what's being requested is a measure of spoon-feeding of operational intelligence.

 

[Disemboweled Ego]

As I very much doubt that the frequency of aggregation / publication of information relating to the BGS would increase, even in the event of some increase in the level of detail offered, I'm not seeing that the extra detail would actually make much difference - as those tracking BGS changes should have a good idea of what it takes to affect Faction influence and therefore the amount of BGS effort players have been engaged in in any particular system.

If the effect is minimal (which is what I was aiming for too) then what's the harm? Is making things easier and more accessible to everyone somehow bad or enough to imbalance things between modes no matter how you look at it?