Exposing AEGIS.

[KellyR]

To me it sounds more like the typical FDev design decisions.

I find it rather difficult to distinguish between story elements, bugs, bad scripting and technical limitations.

What we have is official books that describe the Thargoids as hostile, very aggressive and generally not friendly.

Ok. I'll give you that. Although I'm not sure how much that means. We had story in the books in the original Elite about the Dredgers and colony ships but none were ever found.

We have GalNet news after GalNet news about Thargoid attacks, how Thargoids are "hostile" and a threat.

Galnet news? Since when has not the news been a tool of the government and other power players?

We have easily ignorable Thargoids USSs in the game.
We have in-game Thargoids that stay passive most of the time.

Yep. Leave them alone, they'll leave you alone.

We have a bug that resulted in Aegis looking like evil.

But was it really a bug? Or maybe it was by design. Look at the date that video was posted: 21/12/17. Now look at the date of the Patch note release: 25/01/18. More than a full month after the video was posted. Draw what conclusions you like but cover up is one of the possibilities.

We have really bad story telling timing with the INRA discoveries - unless the connection between Aegis and INRA is intended (something I don't think to be the case).

Are you really sure? Aegis and INRA both have (or had in the case of INRA) the same remit: To find ways to fight the Thargoids. So I'm inclined to think that they are connected. INRA got a bad rep. What better way to continue its work than to rename it and call it something else? Something that is not even an acronym.

We have previous games that apparently had bugs that prevented other story arcs to be playable resulting in the Alliance-Thargoid-Peace story to become part of the collective memory of those who played the previous games.

Again, the operative word is apparently. Since I don't work for FD, there is no way I can know, but Braben has had 20 years to get this story worked out.

We have the problem that after almost 3 years without aliens FDev can't simply let Thargoids destroy player ships left and right without really annoying a lot of players.

Really? You really think FD is that concerned about annoying people? How about all those that they annoyed the hell out of when their Pythons were nerfed? What about those that they annoyed when they reduced the ammo on heatsinks, or all those they annoyed when they made shield cells generate massive heat; in combination with a reduction of ammo a heatsink launcher can carry. From what I've seen, they don't seem that worried about annoying people.

The result of all this, in my opinion, is that the Thargoids make no sense.

Personally I try to remove everything that looks like it could be a bug or that is to complex from a story point of view from the Thargoid story arc. In a game that is extremely simple in it's concepts I don't expect that the story suddenly is very complex and nuanced.
Basically: Thargoids are evil and humanity is working together and Aegis are the good guys/gals.
If it turns out that the Thargoid story arc is different, then I'm very pleasantly surprised.

So what you seem to be saying in this last section, if something doesn't make sense to you, you tend to ignore it as a bug. Not a good idea, I think. Because some of it is not just buggy code. It's a grand design that you and I just can't see yet.

 

[seko]

Aegis = INRA, the Thargoid 'threat' is a false flag. I have been saying this for months

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Ok. I'll give you that. Although I'm not sure how much that means. We had story in the books in the original Elite about the Dredgers and colony ships but none were ever found.

Elite Dangerous is mostly a re-boot and not a continuation. Most of the old lore got removed/changed.

Galnet news? Since when has not the news been a tool of the government and other power players?

GalNet is the only way to give players information about the story. You are looking at it from an in-game perspective, I'm looking at it form an out of game perspective.

But was it really a bug? …

The "Black Fight" ships had no affiliation before Aegis got into the system. It looked like a bug back then, it looks like a bug now, FDev confirmed that it was a bug.
No need to read more into it.

Are you really sure? Aegis and INRA both have (or had in the case of INRA) the same remit: To find ways to fight the Thargoids. …

Just because some organizations have the same goals doesn't mean that they are connected.

Really? You really think FD is that concerned about annoying people? …

Yes. There is a difference between changing some stats of ships or modules, especially if those changes where something other players wanted, and fundamentally change the setting of the game.

So what you seem to be saying in this last section, if something doesn't make sense to you, you tend to ignore it as a bug. Not a good idea, I think. Because some of it is not just buggy code. It's a grand design that you and I just can't see yet.

You looking for a complex grand design that is only existent if we assume a lot of things.
I think most of the apparent complexity is the result of the way information is presented by FDev. If we remove everything that based on assumption or interpretations we get a very simple and clear plot.

I like Occam's razor.

Aegis = INRA, the Thargoid 'threat' is a false flag. I have been saying this for months

The funny part is that this assumption turns the Alliance into bad guys/gals.

 

[KellyR]

Bottom line is this. Until Thargoids initiate hostilities against me, I'm going to leave them alone. There's plenty of my own kind to kill without bringing some aliens into the mix. And at least with my own kind, I know their intentions; unlike the aliens about whom I have no idea of intentions. And yeah, I'm looking at Galnet from an in-game perspective. That's not the only way to get information out to players. How about the logs from Victoria's Song and the other facility? That's not a way to get information out to players? And how do we decide, should Galnet contradict those logs? Just lap up the Galnet fare? Not me. I find logs to be more credible than anything reported by the press.

 

[damon8r351]

I'm with you - AEGIS are INRA and are enemies of The Alliance until proven otherwise.

As an Alliance member and one who is heavily involved with Operation IDA and the station evacuations, I don't actively work against AEGIS. But I'd be lying if I said AEGIS faction members don't get last priority for boarding my evac shuttle.

 

[Oaktree]

The result of all this, in my opinion, is that the Thargoids make no sense.

This! But then again they're aliens, so maybe they're suposed to make no sense.

For example, the new Thargoid Scout. They're scouts but they're only going to appear after the big guys showed up first. Shouldnt the scouts had made their appearence before the flowers? Ya know, er.. like scouting!
Oh, but they're the older models from more than 100 years ago! So they appear now for what? They bring the older outdated models as reinforcements? Are Thargoids getting desperate?

Thargoids make no sense!

 

[seko]

This! But then again they're aliens, so maybe they're suposed to make no sense.

For example, the new Thargoid Scout. They're scouts but they're only going to appear after the big guys showed up first. Shouldnt the scouts had made their appearence before the flowers? Ya know, er.. like scouting!
Oh, but they're the older models from more than 100 years ago! So they appear now for what? They bring the older outdated models as reinforcements? Are Thargoids getting desperate?

Thargoids make no sense!

It's us, humanity that have designated the 'scouts' as 'scouts', in the Thargoid world they may have a completely different role

 

[seko]

Elite Dangerous is mostly a re-boot and not a continuation. Most of the old lore got removed/changed.




GalNet is the only way to give players information about the story. You are looking at it from an in-game perspective, I'm looking at it form an out of game perspective.




The "Black Fight" ships had no affiliation before Aegis got into the system. It looked like a bug back then, it looks like a bug now, FDev confirmed that it was a bug.
No need to read more into it.




Just because some organizations have the same goals doesn't mean that they are connected.



Yes. There is a difference between changing some stats of ships or modules, especially if those changes where something other players wanted, and fundamentally change the setting of the game.




You looking for a complex grand design that is only existent if we assume a lot of things.
I think most of the apparent complexity is the result of the way information is presented by FDev. If we remove everything that based on assumption or interpretations we get a very simple and clear plot.

I like Occam's razor.



The funny part is that this assumption turns the Alliance into bad guys/gals.

I have thought about this, and you could be right, but not necessarily, after all it was Mic Turner (alliance) who gave the Thargoids the antidote to the Mycoid virus, and was the Alliance who reverse engineered Thargoid Technology which gave us the FSD, which was later taken over by the Sirius Corporation (now there is a dark organisatin to watch always lurking in the shadows)

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…, after all it was Mic Turner (alliance) who gave the Thargoids the antidote to the Mycoid virus, …

I think that's the part that got removed from lore/canon - at least it's unknown if it happened. If we only had access to that mystical lore guide book from FDev.

Not exactly related, but is Sirius really the manufacturer of the FSDs? They have the monopoly on power plants, but I haven't read anything about them having a monopoly on FSDs - but that could be the result of me not reading the right sources.

 

[Jaggedmallard]

This! But then again they're aliens, so maybe they're suposed to make no sense.

For example, the new Thargoid Scout. They're scouts but they're only going to appear after the big guys showed up first. Shouldnt the scouts had made their appearence before the flowers? Ya know, er.. like scouting!
Oh, but they're the older models from more than 100 years ago! So they appear now for what? They bring the older outdated models as reinforcements? Are Thargoids getting desperate?

Thargoids make no sense!

Gameplay wise they seem to call in reinforcements after being provoked which is kind of scouty I guess as opposed to regular murder flowers that just kill you.

 

[DNA-Decay]

Aegis and INRA are different organizations.

Aegis is founded and supported by the Alliance. Aegis can't be an enemy of the Alliance since the Alliance is part of Aegis.
The Alliance is the only superpower that builds special ships for Anti-Thargoid combat. Something that only works with Aegis developed AX weapons and AX utilities.

Uh okay wait - I'm going to have to stop you there.
I hadn't picked up that AEGIS was an Alliance initiative.

Do you have a primary source for this?
I thought the AEGIS logo was an Imperial Eagle on a Fed Ringset.

 

[Han_Zen]

Uh okay wait - I'm going to have to stop you there.
I hadn't picked up that AEGIS was an Alliance initiative.

Do you have a primary source for this?
I thought the AEGIS logo was an Imperial Eagle on a Fed Ringset.

All three super powers are in on AGEIS. The Alliance have been a little less enthusiastic than the other two.

 

[Jmanis]

Uh okay wait - I'm going to have to stop you there.
I hadn't picked up that AEGIS was an Alliance initiative.

Do you have a primary source for this?
I thought the AEGIS logo was an Imperial Eagle on a Fed Ringset.

All three super powers are in on AGEIS. The Alliance have been a little less enthusiastic than the other two.

https://community.elitedangerous.com/en/galnet/uid/59844fbe301ce614455222a1

... a confederacy of scientists from the Empire, Federation and Alliance has united to establish a new organisation: Aegis. The organisation’s remit will be to gather further intelligence on the Thargoids and coordinate all future research.

I'm kinda having one of those moments right now where maybe I was wrong to assume this was just common knowledge...

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
I hadn't picked up that AEGIS was an Alliance initiative.

Do you have a primary source for this?
…

Not reading your GalNet?

Here we go (a bit in a random order):
https://community.elitedangerous.com/en/galnet/uid/59844fbe301ce614455222a1

https://community.elitedangerous.com/en/galnet/uid/59a92dbb2b36fd286819e7e5

Following news that scientists from the Alliance, Empire and Federation have united to form a new research initiative,…

https://community.elitedangerous.com/en/galnet/uid/5a311002e0cf5b6e2045ed05

Alliance Prime Minister Edmund Mahon added the following:

“While the INRA records are indeed disturbing, it was the account of John Jameson that troubled me most. Here we have a man – who evidently did a great deal to defend civilisation from the Thargoids – who was deceived, manipulated and ultimately murdered by the INRA.”

“I am aware of concerns that Aegis could continue in the same vein. Fortunately, Aegis is bound by the strictest possible codes of conduct. We will not make the same mistakes.”

https://community.elitedangerous.com/en/galnet/uid/59c3a108ced3ff7f807f54b7

“Aegis has received sanctions from the leaders of all three superpowers to focus not only on research, but also on defence…"

https://community.elitedangerous.com/en/galnet/21-OCT-3303

https://community.elitedangerous.com/en/galnet/uid/5992c1936d3e7f506d569563

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…

I'm kinda having one of those moments right now where maybe I was wrong to assume this was just common knowledge...

That's why I'm keeping mentioning it.

 

[Poseidal]

Aegis is a co-operation between the human superpowers of the galaxy; a kind of 'Gal Co-op' if you will.

 

[Henoch]

Just discovered this awesome video by CMDR Zm4rc0.

I've been to some of the sites, but haven't seen these connections.

A quick scroll back didn't find a dedicated AEGIS thread and I think this is the right sub for it.
Please watch the video and I'll try to get an executive summary in the top post, but obviously I've got some catching up to do.

Well, some time ago, I tried to start a similar thread (on a different base, of course) but I wasn't very welcomed and called an "alarmist". Never mind...

 

[KellyR]

Aegis is bound by the strictest possible codes of conduct? Yeah, I'm sure they said that about INRA as well. Anything ran by humans ain't perfect and can be corrupted. There's a reason for the saying, "Power corrupts; and absolute power corrupts absolutely." IT'S TRUE!!

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Aegis is bound by the strictest possible codes of conduct? Yeah, I'm sure they said that about INRA as well. Anything ran by humans ain't perfect and can be corrupted. There's a reason for the saying, "Power corrupts; and absolute power corrupts absolutely." IT'S TRUE!!

Just because something bad can happen, doesn't mean that it will happen.

The thread starter DNA-Decay (who, apparently, is a member of a very active Alliance supporting player group) wasn't aware that the Alliance and Mahon are backing Aegis. I provided lore based facts about that.

Everybody is free to make their own decisions how much to trust the prime minister of the Alliance.
Since it is a quote of something a NPC said it could be a lie or wrong or based on false information from shady parts of the Alliance. It's content doesn't have to be true, that Mahon said it is true.

This has some implications for the game. We know that Mahon said it, we know that Mahon officially supports Aegis. That's the basis on which players who play a CMDR aligned to the Alliance have to put their RP on.

Does it make Aegis "good"? No.
Is Aegis "evil" because it is a powerful organization? No.

 

[KellyR]

Let me bottom line it here. I don't go on Meta. I go on what happens in-game. According to that, I have never been attacked by a Thargoid. They have left me alone. I get too close and I get the message, by their actions, "Not so close!!! Stay out of my personal space and we're fine." And while yes, Federal military convoys were attacked, we have no idea what the provocation was. "Oh, but they said there was no provocation." Yeah? They can say whatever they please. That doesn't make it true. They might not even have known what the provocation was. But I guarantee you, there was provocation. Maybe not viable, to our way of thinking, provocation, but provocation nonetheless.

You can go on and on and on about how the Thargoids don't make sense and I won't tell you you're wrong. They don't make sense. There's a reason for that. They are aliens with a completely alien mindset. They most likely have words in their language that express concepts we can't even begin to fathom. We likely have words in our languages that express concepts that they can't even begin to fathom.

But I'll tell you this. Playing the Meta game is a fool's errand. FD knows exactly what they are about. They aren't just making this up as they go along. There's inconsistencies? No, there aren't. There are apparent inconsistencies because we don't and can't, for that matter, see the entire picture as of yet.

So when these people talk about the Thargoids being hostile, I think, "Sure, if you provoke them. I don't provoke them so they aren't hostile to me."